UND Leaving BSC/D1?

[oldrunner]

Looks like they are in money trouble and thinking of leaving DI and the BSC. Interesting.....

https://twitter.com/SchlossmanGF/status/765614933509758976

 

[wsucatfan]

Funny/sad since they proclaimed to be FBS material.

 

[WILDCAT]

I'd be surprised if they left DI altogether, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them leave the Sky and find a more manageable FCS conference. There is a good chance they could go Summit in Olympic Sports and the Missouri Valley/Pioneer/Ohio Valley for football

Or they could just cut unneeded sports to help with saving money

 

[ajwildcat]

Nothing against the U of North Dakota, but I hope they do join another conference. It was a stupid move from the beginning to have them in the Big Sky. Its a terrible fit for both the school and the conference. The Big Sky doesn't need to cover 3 different time zones. :twocents:

 

[n.ogdencat]

I tried to tell our resident UND Troll last year that UND was headed for a major budget shortfall. They had put too much emphasis on oil money that was drying up. Who cares if someone builds you a stadium, guess who gets stuck with the maintenance fees? He kept claiming that UND was part of this "group" that was moving the Sky towards FBS and that UND was naturally going to be leading the charge. Two years ago one could see the writing on the wall. UND wouldn't be able to keep up with the astounding costs. Being in a local conference would be the best bet for UND. Missouri Valley isn't an option and I don't know if the Summit will allow them to join. But those are better options and closer, than the Big Sky. If UND left, it would save them money and it would save the Big Sky money. Win win in my opinion. But I doubt we see that happen. UND will have to figure things out. It would be a shame for them to lose another DI program.

 

[SWeberCat02]

Doesn't say anything about leaving D1 (runner's having difficulty reading again), only that they're evaluating how many D1 sports they sponsor. They just dropped baseball and men's golf (golf team is trying to raise money to save its program). Probably more to be dropped (swimming?). The travel costs alone must be killing them. Like has been said, they never should have joined the conference. Just isn't a good fit geographically.

 

[WILDCAT]

It's true that UND is an outlier in this conference, but I'd be kinda sad to see them go.

Since joining they have been one of the better programs in Basketball and Football. I think they have helped the Sky's strength ranking and it looks like this year will be the same. They have the most experienced team coming back in Basketball and their poised to be one of the top contenders for Football.

 

[oldrunner]

Doesn't say anything about leaving D1 (runner's having difficulty reading again), only that they're evaluating how many D1 sports they sponsor. They just dropped baseball and men's golf (golf team is trying to raise money to save its program). Probably more to be dropped (swimming?). The travel costs alone must be killing them. Like has been said, they never should have joined the conference. Just isn't a good fit geographically.

I don't believe that I said anything about them dropping completely out of DI. I'm sure that they would never consider dropping DI hockey. I'm not so sure about basketball or football. Dropping swimming, baseball, or both would not save them 1.4 million. For that matter, basketball wouldn't either. Football would probably do it.

I'm with some others here. I don't think they fit the footprint of the BSC. Northern Colorado may be in a similar situation.

Maybe these teams can become independents and we could get some HnHs with them. :lol:

 

[PURPLEFORLIFE]

Does North Dakota fit the Big Sky's footprint? NO! Are they going anywhere else? NO! Fact of the matter, the fighting whatever's aren't going anywhere anytime soon. They will still be in the Sky years from now. Why? Nobody else wants them.

 

[Siouxfan2]

UND will go to the WAC. The Montana and Idaho like us, unlike Utah schools. The WAC will be an FCS conference for a while before transitioning to FBS.

Here will be the new lineup as even Weber'St AD admitted there will be a shake up.

WAC
NMSU
Lamar
Sam Houston St
UTRGV
Wichita St - fb only
Mo St - fb only
Denver
UMKC
UND
Montana
Mt St
Idaho
E Washington

The WAC will go FBS later in time for the new CFP contract payout.

The Big Sky will have all the other teams plus UVU, GCU, Bakersfield, and Seattle. Later they can add Dixie St, Cal Baptist, and Azusa Pacific from DII.

Our former President left a financial mess. We had too many teams at 21 - that is an absurd number of an FCS or even G5. The economy is still strong, but with oil prices down, the oil revenue tax doesn't come in. There is a ton of projects using nat gas coming along in the planning stages. No Dakota will be like Alberta's economy, which diversified into chemicals and fertilizers. Grand Forks also has major job growth because it's a UAV hub, sponsored by UND research and aviation expertise and with the nearby AFB. Defense and aerospace companies are building up an entire industry.

 

[Siouxfan2]

If money was truly a concern, our new President would have cut FCOA, which all our scholarship athletes now get. He didn't. He'said only informing us that a new conference affiliation is at hand - the WAC, so changes are coming. He put the CFO for athletics directly under him, so he could have more control over budgeting and special items.

 

[oldrunner]

If money was truly a concern, our new President would have cut FCOA, which all our scholarship athletes now get. He didn't. He'said only informing us that a new conference affiliation is at hand - the WAC, so changes are coming. He put the CFO for athletics directly under him, so he could have more control over budgeting and special items.

I read that as UND is dropping football to join the WAC. The WAC is a sink hole and gives you even worse travel than before. You have been a bit off plumb before, but you are absolutely delusional now. Good luck with that WAC thing. :lol:

 

[Siouxfan2]

If money was truly a concern, our new President would have cut FCOA, which all our scholarship athletes now get. He didn't. He'said only informing us that a new conference affiliation is at hand - the WAC, so changes are coming. He put the CFO for athletics directly under him, so he could have more control over budgeting and special items.

I read that as UND is dropping football to join the WAC. The WAC is a sink hole and gives you even worse travel than before. You have been a bit off plumb before, but you are absolutely delusional now. Good luck with that WAC thing. :lol:

You've been warned by your own AD but continue with your trip up denial. One day you will wake up.

The WAC can offer FCS schools FBS slots still, in case you weren't aware.

The west coast sinkholes in the WAC will be your new conference mates.

Las Vegas will be your new tournament home though. Ours will be Kansas City.

 

[oldrunner]

If money was truly a concern, our new President would have cut FCOA, which all our scholarship athletes now get. He didn't. He'said only informing us that a new conference affiliation is at hand - the WAC, so changes are coming. He put the CFO for athletics directly under him, so he could have more control over budgeting and special items.

I read that as UND is dropping football to join the WAC. The WAC is a sink hole and gives you even worse travel than before. You have been a bit off plumb before, but you are absolutely delusional now. Good luck with that WAC thing. :lol:

You've been warned by your own AD but continue with your trip up denial. One day you will wake up.

The WAC can offer FCS schools FBS slots still, in case you weren't aware.

The west coast sinkholes in the WAC will be your new conference mates.

Las Vegas will be your new tournament home though. Ours will be Kansas City.

Any second now, monkeys will start flying out of your a$$. Your own AD has warned you about it! :roll:

 

[n.ogdencat]

Wow...Sioux you are totally off the reservation!

First, you just can't kick out current members of a conference. In fact to join said conference you have to be allowed or, invited, in. Why would UVU or Seattle vote in members who then force them out so that they can chase a pie in the sky FbS fantasy?

Second, if you haven't noticed payouts aren't going to be exactly large this next time around. C-USA's new tv contract is proof that the haves will have more and the have nots a lot less. Please see how C-USA is making substantially less than they were before. Further cutting into any sort of profit those teams once made. Most of those schools are in the red and will go farther into the red in ensuing years. So, Why would a renewed WAC, with a bunch of start ups, be able to negotiate a deal where 13 teams can profit from? Where is the incentive to join this conference? You won't make anymore money, you'll be the laughing stock of DI football, and travel will be absolutely ridiculous. No bowl tie ins and don't think for a moment that the Sun Belt and MAC both conferences that should be FCS won't block every move that the new WAC try's to make. The pie piece at the bottom of FBS is already small those other conferences aren't going to want to cut it up more.

Third, additional scholarships for football has to matched with additional scholarships for women sports. You don't realize that that's around 42 new scholarships, most will be out of state, that the department has to pay for an additional, conservative estimate, 1.5M a year. You are already 1.5 in debt from last years budget. Payouts for a renewed WAC will not be enough to off set those costs. Don't give me that crap argument of...money games or bowl payouts, you don't have any and they aren't assured. Besides, why would UND want to do something that could really hurt its hockey program? This doesn't help that so why do something that could really hurt it?

Finally, their is a team in the Dakotas that is an attractive candidate for FBS, but it isn't UND. And that school isn't interested in moving, neither is Montana (State has a president who is delusional and detached from reality). These schools see that the cons offset the pros. Only way anything happens is if the Sky breaks into two separate divisions that sponsors bothe FCS and FBS, which would take a decade to accomplish and might someday, but by the time that happens the top FCS conference will be in a division with the bottom FBS conferences so it won't matter anymore. The P5 will continue to make lots of money and the others will fight for the scraps. Your idea isn't financially feasible; especially for a school that is currently in debt and fighting for relevance in its geographic zone.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Wow...Sioux you are totally off the reservation!

First, you just can't kick out current members of a conference. In fact to join said conference you have to be allowed or, invited, in. Why would UVU or Seattle vote in members who then force them out so that they can chase a pie in the sky FbS fantasy?

Second, if you haven't noticed payouts aren't going to be exactly large this next time around. C-USA's new tv contract is proof that the haves will have more and the have nots a lot less. Please see how C-USA is making substantially less than they were before. Further cutting into any sort of profit those teams once made. Most of those schools are in the red and will go farther into the red in ensuing years. So, Why would a renewed WAC, with a bunch of start ups, be able to negotiate a deal where 13 teams can profit from? Where is the incentive to join this conference? You won't make anymore money, you'll be the laughing stock of DI football, and travel will be absolutely ridiculous. No bowl tie ins and don't think for a moment that the Sun Belt and MAC both conferences that should be FCS won't block every move that the new WAC try's to make. The pie piece at the bottom of FBS is already small those other conferences aren't going to want to cut it up more.

Third, additional scholarships for football has to matched with additional scholarships for women sports. You don't realize that that's around 42 new scholarships, most will be out of state, that the department has to pay for an additional, conservative estimate, 1.5M a year. You are already 1.5 in debt from last years budget. Payouts for a renewed WAC will not be enough to off set those costs. Don't give me that crap argument of...money games or bowl payouts, you don't have any and they aren't assured. Besides, why would UND want to do something that could really hurt its hockey program? This doesn't help that so why do something that could really hurt it?

Finally, their is a team in the Dakotas that is an attractive candidate for FBS, but it isn't UND. And that school isn't interested in moving, neither is Montana (State has a president who is delusional and detached from reality). These schools see that the cons offset the pros. Only way anything happens is if the Sky breaks into two separate divisions that sponsors bothe FCS and FBS, which would take a decade to accomplish and might someday, but by the time that happens the top FCS conference will be in a division with the bottom FBS conferences so it won't matter anymore. The P5 will continue to make lots of money and the others will fight for the scraps. Your idea isn't financially feasible; especially for a school that is currently in debt and fighting for relevance in its geographic zone.

Let's take your feeble points one at a time.

1. When UVU, GCU, and Bakersfield were accepted into the WAC, they understood they would slide over to an more western FCS centered conference later. So did Weber St, S Utah, NAU etc.

2. The WAC will start off as an FCS conference, and later those schools will go FBS en masse as the WAC would want to be eligible for the CFP when it is renegotiated by 2025. The FBS transition process needs to start around 2020 to make sure it's FBS qualified in time for those negotiations. The Sun Belt gets along fine without much of any TV contract.

3. UND could go FBS now and it wouldn't have to add scholarships, as UND's M/F ratio is like 54/46 because of heavy male enrollment for engineering and aviation. UND already dropped mens baseball and mens golf to give those numbers for FBS and baseball is badly needed by the Slummit. Why would such a critical sport for a conference be dropped unless something else is in mind? That rumor is being spread like fire, mostly from XDSU fans, who hated that we were accepted into the Big Sky, unlike them. Agreed that Montana schools would have to add significant female scholarships.

4. Have you ever looked at NDSU's Title IX situation? They have like a 67/33 ration on M/F scholarships, but their student ratio is about the same as UND's. They would have to add 100 women's scholarships just to get the right ratio at FBS. Their President is in hot water with the state and Fargo has a a two billion water diversion project upcoming. They won't get more state funding for athletics. UND has donors in my estimation for a remodeled campus stadium. Montana State's President gets accolades from almost everyone, including the Griz, because she has vision. Some family members went there and they rave about her. You are the first person who disparaged her that I had contact with.

The WAC will be the northern and eastern research schools breaking off from the Big Sky. Both will be FCS until the WAC again pursues FBS, which NCAA rules allow the WAC to do. UND fans are used to playing teams like Minnesota and Wisconsin, but in football it is a downer for them to play directional schools.

Hockey is doing very well, as we've are national Champs again, much like Coastal Carolina has in baseball. How can Coastal go FBS when they have smaller attendance, endowment, and stadium than UND? Their state board is really trying to limit their planned expansion, but has set no limit on Clemson or USC. UND has more resources than just the state as it has deep pocketed alumni. Hockey is what it is facility wise because of it. Why shouldn't UND or most of the Big Sky schools be an par with the MAC or Sun Belt?

 

[Webergrad02]

Wow...Sioux you are totally off the reservation!

First, you just can't kick out current members of a conference. In fact to join said conference you have to be allowed or, invited, in. Why would UVU or Seattle vote in members who then force them out so that they can chase a pie in the sky FbS fantasy?

Second, if you haven't noticed payouts aren't going to be exactly large this next time around. C-USA's new tv contract is proof that the haves will have more and the have nots a lot less. Please see how C-USA is making substantially less than they were before. Further cutting into any sort of profit those teams once made. Most of those schools are in the red and will go farther into the red in ensuing years. So, Why would a renewed WAC, with a bunch of start ups, be able to negotiate a deal where 13 teams can profit from? Where is the incentive to join this conference? You won't make anymore money, you'll be the laughing stock of DI football, and travel will be absolutely ridiculous. No bowl tie ins and don't think for a moment that the Sun Belt and MAC both conferences that should be FCS won't block every move that the new WAC try's to make. The pie piece at the bottom of FBS is already small those other conferences aren't going to want to cut it up more.

Third, additional scholarships for football has to matched with additional scholarships for women sports. You don't realize that that's around 42 new scholarships, most will be out of state, that the department has to pay for an additional, conservative estimate, 1.5M a year. You are already 1.5 in debt from last years budget. Payouts for a renewed WAC will not be enough to off set those costs. Don't give me that crap argument of...money games or bowl payouts, you don't have any and they aren't assured. Besides, why would UND want to do something that could really hurt its hockey program? This doesn't help that so why do something that could really hurt it?

Finally, their is a team in the Dakotas that is an attractive candidate for FBS, but it isn't UND. And that school isn't interested in moving, neither is Montana (State has a president who is delusional and detached from reality). These schools see that the cons offset the pros. Only way anything happens is if the Sky breaks into two separate divisions that sponsors bothe FCS and FBS, which would take a decade to accomplish and might someday, but by the time that happens the top FCS conference will be in a division with the bottom FBS conferences so it won't matter anymore. The P5 will continue to make lots of money and the others will fight for the scraps. Your idea isn't financially feasible; especially for a school that is currently in debt and fighting for relevance in its geographic zone.

Let's take your feeble points one at a time.

1. When UVU, GCU, and Bakersfield were accepted into the WAC, they understood they would slide over to an more western FCS centered conference later. So did Weber St, S Utah, NAU etc.

2. The WAC will start off as an FCS conference, and later those schools will go FBS en masse as the WAC would want to be eligible for the CFP when it is renegotiated by 2025. The FBS transition process needs to start around 2020 to make sure it's FBS qualified in time for those negotiations. The Sun Belt gets along fine without much of any TV contract.

3. UND could go FBS now and it wouldn't have to add scholarships, as UND's M/F ratio is like 54/46 because of heavy male enrollment for engineering and aviation. UND already dropped mens baseball and mens golf to give those numbers for FBS and baseball is badly needed by the Slummit. Why would such a critical sport for a conference be dropped unless something else is in mind? That rumor is being spread like fire, mostly from XDSU fans, who hated that we were accepted into the Big Sky, unlike them. Agreed that Montana schools would have to add significant female scholarships.

4. Have you ever looked at NDSU's Title IX situation? They have like a 67/33 ration on M/F scholarships, but their student ratio is about the same as UND's. They would have to add 100 women's scholarships just to get the right ratio at FBS. Their President is in hot water with the state and Fargo has a a two billion water diversion project upcoming. They won't get more state funding for athletics. UND has donors in my estimation for a remodeled campus stadium. Montana State's President gets accolades from almost everyone, including the Griz, because she has vision. Some family members went there and they rave about her. You are the first person who disparaged her that I had contact with.

The WAC will be the northern and eastern research schools breaking off from the Big Sky. Both will be FCS until the WAC again pursues FBS, which NCAA rules allow the WAC to do. UND fans are used to playing teams like Minnesota and Wisconsin, but in football it is a downer for them to play directional schools.

Hockey is doing very well, as we've are national Champs again, much like Coastal Carolina has in baseball. How can Coastal go FBS when they have smaller attendance, endowment, and stadium than UND? Their state board is really trying to limit their planned expansion, but has set no limit on Clemson or USC. UND has more resources than just the state as it has deep pocketed alumni. Hockey is what it is facility wise because of it. Why shouldn't UND or most of the Big Sky schools be an par with the MAC or Sun Belt?

Can you find another schools forum to put this garbage? The day I see Brian Jones wear a suit without wrinkles and stains is the day I will take UND serious.

 

[ajwildcat]

Wow...Sioux you are totally off the reservation!

First, you just can't kick out current members of a conference. In fact to join said conference you have to be allowed or, invited, in. Why would UVU or Seattle vote in members who then force them out so that they can chase a pie in the sky FbS fantasy?

Second, if you haven't noticed payouts aren't going to be exactly large this next time around. C-USA's new tv contract is proof that the haves will have more and the have nots a lot less. Please see how C-USA is making substantially less than they were before. Further cutting into any sort of profit those teams once made. Most of those schools are in the red and will go farther into the red in ensuing years. So, Why would a renewed WAC, with a bunch of start ups, be able to negotiate a deal where 13 teams can profit from? Where is the incentive to join this conference? You won't make anymore money, you'll be the laughing stock of DI football, and travel will be absolutely ridiculous. No bowl tie ins and don't think for a moment that the Sun Belt and MAC both conferences that should be FCS won't block every move that the new WAC try's to make. The pie piece at the bottom of FBS is already small those other conferences aren't going to want to cut it up more.

Third, additional scholarships for football has to matched with additional scholarships for women sports. You don't realize that that's around 42 new scholarships, most will be out of state, that the department has to pay for an additional, conservative estimate, 1.5M a year. You are already 1.5 in debt from last years budget. Payouts for a renewed WAC will not be enough to off set those costs. Don't give me that crap argument of...money games or bowl payouts, you don't have any and they aren't assured. Besides, why would UND want to do something that could really hurt its hockey program? This doesn't help that so why do something that could really hurt it?

Finally, their is a team in the Dakotas that is an attractive candidate for FBS, but it isn't UND. And that school isn't interested in moving, neither is Montana (State has a president who is delusional and detached from reality). These schools see that the cons offset the pros. Only way anything happens is if the Sky breaks into two separate divisions that sponsors bothe FCS and FBS, which would take a decade to accomplish and might someday, but by the time that happens the top FCS conference will be in a division with the bottom FBS conferences so it won't matter anymore. The P5 will continue to make lots of money and the others will fight for the scraps. Your idea isn't financially feasible; especially for a school that is currently in debt and fighting for relevance in its geographic zone.

Let's take your feeble points one at a time.

1. When UVU, GCU, and Bakersfield were accepted into the WAC, they understood they would slide over to an more western FCS centered conference later. So did Weber St, S Utah, NAU etc.

2. The WAC will start off as an FCS conference, and later those schools will go FBS en masse as the WAC would want to be eligible for the CFP when it is renegotiated by 2025. The FBS transition process needs to start around 2020 to make sure it's FBS qualified in time for those negotiations. The Sun Belt gets along fine without much of any TV contract.

3. UND could go FBS now and it wouldn't have to add scholarships, as UND's M/F ratio is like 54/46 because of heavy male enrollment for engineering and aviation. UND already dropped mens baseball and mens golf to give those numbers for FBS and baseball is badly needed by the Slummit. Why would such a critical sport for a conference be dropped unless something else is in mind? That rumor is being spread like fire, mostly from XDSU fans, who hated that we were accepted into the Big Sky, unlike them. Agreed that Montana schools would have to add significant female scholarships.

4. Have you ever looked at NDSU's Title IX situation? They have like a 67/33 ration on M/F scholarships, but their student ratio is about the same as UND's. They would have to add 100 women's scholarships just to get the right ratio at FBS. Their President is in hot water with the state and Fargo has a a two billion water diversion project upcoming. They won't get more state funding for athletics. UND has donors in my estimation for a remodeled campus stadium. Montana State's President gets accolades from almost everyone, including the Griz, because she has vision. Some family members went there and they rave about her. You are the first person who disparaged her that I had contact with.

The WAC will be the northern and eastern research schools breaking off from the Big Sky. Both will be FCS until the WAC again pursues FBS, which NCAA rules allow the WAC to do. UND fans are used to playing teams like Minnesota and Wisconsin, but in football it is a downer for them to play directional schools.

Hockey is doing very well, as we've are national Champs again, much like Coastal Carolina has in baseball. How can Coastal go FBS when they have smaller attendance, endowment, and stadium than UND? Their state board is really trying to limit their planned expansion, but has set no limit on Clemson or USC. UND has more resources than just the state as it has deep pocketed alumni. Hockey is what it is facility wise because of it. Why shouldn't UND or most of the Big Sky schools be an par with the MAC or Sun Belt?

May I recommend some type of rehab? you are high as hell..In an earlier post you stated that Wichita would join this mythical conference as football only. Good grief they havn't had a football team since 1986 and they are NOT even close to adding a team soon. :wall: I lived in Kansas near Wichita a few years back and according to close friends I have out there, there is no interest in restarting a football team. :dunce:

 

[oldrunner]

Our travel expenses to Grand Spoons are nearly 4x the amount that we incur to travel to any other BSC school. I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the BSC as well. It wouldn't be any different for any league that has them in it. They are just in a bad place. Maybe they can round up some schools in their area to form a league of their own. I'm sure it must be expensive for them to travel far from home, as they do now in the BSC. The WAC, as our crazy friend is describing, would be geographically huge, and pose all kinds of travel problems. It seems quite unworkable to me.

The next moves we will see will come from P5 conferences. There will be a few teams moving from FBS to P5. The fallout from that will be a like number of teams moving to fill those places. It would be a ripple effect that could play out over several years. There could be some movement from FCS to FBS as it unwinds. However, there may also be a restructuring going on within NCAA football as a whole, as has been mentioned already. The majority of non P5, FBS schools are losing money and are looking for relief from the NCAA. It's is nearly impossible for them to keep up with the P5 group. This thing is not going to get easier. I don't see the WAC getting back into football at all. Also, the WAC, or any conference for that matter, does not have the authority to declare any school as FBS. That is not how it works at all.

I can see the BSC ending up as a 10 team league. Sounds like UND and MSU want the hell out. I say, go for it.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Our travel expenses to Grand Spoons are nearly 4x the amount that we incur to travel to any other BSC school. I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the BSC as well. It wouldn't be any different for any league that has them in it. They are just in a bad place. Maybe they can round up some schools in their area to form a league of their own. I'm sure it must be expensive for them to travel far from home, as they do now in the BSC. The WAC, as our crazy friend is describing, would be geographically huge, and pose all kinds of travel problems. It seems quite unworkable to me.

The next moves we will see will come from P5 conferences. There will be a few teams moving from FBS to P5. The fallout from that will be a like number of teams moving to fill those places. It would be a ripple effect that could play out over several years. There could be some movement from FCS to FBS as it unwinds. However, there may also be a restructuring going on within NCAA football as a whole, as has been mentioned already. The majority of non P5, FBS schools are losing money and are looking for relief from the NCAA. It's is nearly impossible for them to keep up with the P5 group. This thing is not going to get easier. I don't see the WAC getting back into football at all. Also, the WAC, or any conference for that matter, does not have the authority to declare any school as FBS. That is not how it works at all.

I can see the BSC ending up as a 10 team league. Sounds like UND and MSU want the hell out. I say, go for it.

:thumb: from this fan...actually, UNC replacing MSU would make it a good, positive change to the BSC mix. History would tell you that MSU going separate ways from UM is highly unlikely. :twocents: