UND Leaving BSC/D1?

[Siouxfan2]

Our travel expenses to Grand Spoons are nearly 4x the amount that we incur to travel to any other BSC school. I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the BSC as well. It wouldn't be any different for any league that has them in it. They are just in a bad place. Maybe they can round up some schools in their area to form a league of their own. I'm sure it must be expensive for them to travel far from home, as they do now in the BSC. The WAC, as our crazy friend is describing, would be geographically huge, and pose all kinds of travel problems. It seems quite unworkable to me.

The next moves we will see will come from P5 conferences. There will be a few teams moving from FBS to P5. The fallout from that will be a like number of teams moving to fill those places. It would be a ripple effect that could play out over several years. There could be some movement from FCS to FBS as it unwinds. However, there may also be a restructuring going on within NCAA football as a whole, as has been mentioned already. The majority of non P5, FBS schools are losing money and are looking for relief from the NCAA. It's is nearly impossible for them to keep up with the P5 group. This thing is not going to get easier. I don't see the WAC getting back into football at aell. Also, the WAC, or any conference for that matter, does not have the authority to declare any school as FBS. That is not how it works at all.

I can see the BSC ending up as a 10 team league. Sounds like UND and MSU want the hell out. I say, go for it.

The WAC retains the right to offer FCS schools FBS membership according to NCAA regulations. Admit that you don't know squat here. Former FBS conferences can still make FBS invites. The Big West however cannot make an FBS invite, as it what not an FBS conference, but a former I-A conference.

Wichita State's President has made a big deal about getting football started again and going FBS. This board seems entirely uninformed. Your AD isn't, and he knows what will happen.

 

[oldrunner]

Wichita State's President has made a big deal about getting football started again and going FBS. This board seems entirely uninformed. Your AD isn't, and he knows what will happen.

Good luck with that WAC thing. Hope it all works out for you. Maybe you should just petition for a spot in a P5 conference. Like you have already said, P5 teams travel to Big Forks already, so why not? :nod:

 

[SWeberCat02]

Our travel expenses to Grand Spoons are nearly 4x the amount that we incur to travel to any other BSC school. I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the BSC as well. It wouldn't be any different for any league that has them in it. They are just in a bad place. Maybe they can round up some schools in their area to form a league of their own. I'm sure it must be expensive for them to travel far from home, as they do now in the BSC. The WAC, as our crazy friend is describing, would be geographically huge, and pose all kinds of travel problems. It seems quite unworkable to me.

The next moves we will see will come from P5 conferences. There will be a few teams moving from FBS to P5. The fallout from that will be a like number of teams moving to fill those places. It would be a ripple effect that could play out over several years. There could be some movement from FCS to FBS as it unwinds. However, there may also be a restructuring going on within NCAA football as a whole, as has been mentioned already. The majority of non P5, FBS schools are losing money and are looking for relief from the NCAA. It's is nearly impossible for them to keep up with the P5 group. This thing is not going to get easier. I don't see the WAC getting back into football at all. Also, the WAC, or any conference for that matter, does not have the authority to declare any school as FBS. That is not how it works at all.

I can see the BSC ending up as a 10 team league. Sounds like UND and MSU want the hell out. I say, go for it.

:thumb: from this fan...actually, UNC replacing MSU would make it a good, positive change to the BSC mix. History would tell you that MSU going separate ways from UM is highly unlikely. :twocents:

Runner, where are you getting this wild idea that MSU wants the hell out of the Big Sky?

Alumni, I agree that UNC adds nothing to the conference. As I remember the main factor in adding them was to get a foothold in the Denver area market, but absolutely no one in Colorado cares about UNC athletics so this was misguided. But unfortunately the conference is stuck with them.

 

[SWeberCat02]

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_2740e22d-a17e-508c-8fbb-717a6bd89e66.html

Andrea Williams, the Big Sky commissioner, said North Dakota is a “great fit” for the conference

:roll: Come on commish, quit trying to be so PC and just admit that UND is not a great fit.

 

[oldrunner]

Runner, where are you getting this wild idea that MSU wants the hell out of the Big Sky?

It was inferred earlier in the topic and has been brought up before by our resident NoDak troll.

I do agree that UM and MSU will always go together and the likelihood that they leave the BSC, any time soon, is highly unlikely. I also agree that UNC fits the BSC footprint a bit better than UND. I could certainly see some kind of split in the BSC, in the future. 14 Football teams and 12 in everything else is somewhat unruly for a conference like ours. We get one bid in basketball, and to make 14 football teams feasible, we would need to get 4 teams into the football playoffs on a regular basis. That hasn't been happening.

As far as football teams moving to FBS, it could happen, but if Idaho is an example, it is a total crap shoot for any of our schools to be financially viable at that level. Boise and Reno were able to do it. I would be interested to know how Reno's budget has fared.

 

[Skippy]

As far as football teams moving to FBS, it could happen, but if Idaho is an example, it is a total crap shoot for any of our schools to be financially viable at that level. Boise and Reno were able to do it. I would be interested to know how Reno's budget has fared. [/quote]
For any Big Sky team to move up, they would have to be invited by an existing FBS conference. Some folks believe the WAC still holds the authority to make an FBS invitation. Other than that, the only other league that would be remotely interested in Big Sky schools would be the MWC -- and only if it lost a school or two to the Big 12. I have no doubt the two Montana schools would jump to the MWC in a heartbeat if invited. I just don't see them getting invited anytime soon. As to the WAC, it would be interesting to know if the league does indeed still have the authority to issue FBS invites. I am highly skeptical, even if they did, that such an effort would materialize. Outside the P5 leagues, nobody is getting rich playing football these days.

 

[Skippy]

PS-- you wondered about Nevada's budget -- according to USA Today's data base, Nevada's athletic department budget $27 million) ranks 104 among the 231 D1 schools listed. Their revenues have increased from $18.6 million to $26.9 million over the last 10 years. Their budget is 35 percent subsidized by student fees and state money. By contrast the highest budget for a Big Sky school is listed as Cal Poly at $26.2 million, 75 percent of which is subsidized.

 

[SWeberCat02]

Runner, where are you getting this wild idea that MSU wants the hell out of the Big Sky?

It was inferred earlier in the topic and has been brought up before by our resident NoDak troll.

Oh, I see. I don't waste my time reading siouxfan's gibberish. :blah:

 

[WILDCAT]

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.co...cle_2740e22d-a17e-508c-8fbb-717a6bd89e66.html

Andrea Williams, the Big Sky commissioner, said North Dakota is a “great fit” for the conference

:roll: Come on commish, quit trying to be so PC and just admit that UND is not a great fit.

Can someone explain to me how outside of Geography North Dakota is not a great fit in this conference?

 

[n.ogdencat]

Sioux is right on a number of things. Yes, the WAC can still sponsor FBS football. Yes, Idaho is doing everything they can to not have to go back to FCS, even though it isn't financially feasible for the Vandals to stay FBS going forward, it is a prestige thing and they really don't want to be the first to go backwards. Idaho would be willing, yesterday, to go to the WAC and keep playing FBS, even if they have to continually go 1-3M in the red each year. After three years of that, that State of Idaho would cancel athletics at Idaho. Smart move Vandals!!

Yes, NMSU needs a conference to call home in the near future and the WAC might be an option, and we all need to be aware that the WAC Commissioner is "pimping" out his league as an option for institutions who want to go FBS. The WAC itself still wants to sponsor football and return to their "glory days."

However, the things that Sioux is absolutely wrong about. First is the money. Five years ago, the WAC had bowl tie-ins and a media contract. The WAC does not have those things now and if they do get a contract it will not be anywhere near as lucrative as it once was. They also do not have a bowl tie in. The P5, yes, will make more, all the rest won't. But, even though the G5 will make substantially less (please Sioux go look at the most recent C-USA contract that is going to be the norm for everyone else too, even some P5s), is it better than the Big Sky? Yes...But, is it enough to offset the additional financial strains? NO. UND is going to continually be 1.5M in the red each year because they are paying full Cost of Living stipends. That is why they are in the red. Who is going to pay for that? So next year, it'll be another 1.5 or more and then UND will be 3M in the red. Add on regular tuition that is required by being an FBS school to fill the required 85 scholarships (23 more) and that is a knock out punch to the schools budget. Oh, also, Sioux, YES, you would have to add women's scholarship. By cutting golf, you are now Title IX compliant. We are talking about 40 new scholarships at around 15K a piece per year. You are already in debt and Golf doesn't cost that much!!

Next, NO YOU CANNOT JUST KICK OUT CONFERENCE MEMBERS. You seem to forget something. A conference isn't an entity without the schools that belong to it. UVU, Seattle, Bakersfield, Cleveland St, and Grand Canyon (and whoever else) aren't just going to vote in schools who will then force them out. Yes, they can still sponsor football, but the current membership isn't going to vote themselves off the island. There are no agreements between the WAC and Big Sky either. Idaho knows this or they would have stayed in the WAC, same with NMSU. Once Montana, Montana State, Eastern Washington, YES...even Weber State, and bunch of Southland Schools, and San Diego said NO to joining the WAC 5 years ago, the case was closed. If it were to happen, it would happen now, not a year from now, but now. It isn't going to happen.

THE MOST LIKELY SCENARIO and the best for the Big Sky, would be for UND to be let go, but you have NO WHERE TO GO!! Nobody wants you. The MIssouri Valley, The Summit, the Ohio Valley, NOBODY WANTS YOU!! We are stuck with you because of IDIOT FOOLERTON!

Lastly, WTF on being a peer to Big 10 Schools. Even if you became an FBS somehow, meaning a bunch of institutions were duped, WISCONSIN WILL NEVER GO TO GRAND FORKS. You are not a peer institution in football or any other sport except Hockey. THere are 270 DI football teams in FCS and FBS and 60 in HOckey. Your comments are like John Hopkins, who is a Lacrosse powerhouse, fans claiming they are a peer institution to ACC or SEC schools. Academics are one thing...athletics are something else. John Hopkins and the Ivy League are numbered among out best academic institutions, but are not our best athletic. Please see Boise State, terrible institution of higher learning, but they have a good football team. Would you consider them a peer academically? BUT THEY SURE AS HELL ARE BETTER THAN YOU ATHLETICALLY and they wouldn't consider UND a peeer to them. Interesting?!?

 

[Siouxfan2]

First off, the Minnesota- UND rivalry is often voted their most heated, even before Wisconsin and Iowa. The Wisconsin rivalry has been historically heated, but everybody drinks a beer afterwards and does a polka. You need to experience a UND hockey game before trashing it.

We are the nation hockey leader in attendance - 250 k annually - and current champion, with NHLers and more nattys (8) than Minnesota (5). Since Minnesota sees itself as a hockey first school, and it drives them nuts that a podunk city and state could get the best of them.

Idaho, after being kicked out of the Belt, would have to spend a fortune they don't have to get FBS teams to Moscow. The only ones that they could get routinely are San Jose St, NMSU, and Wyoming, which are not exactly at the top of FBS. Or they could have played away games for money all the time and made a ton of money but not fans. The NCAA requires an FBS school to have five home games, and only one can be non-FBS.

There was a reason for Fullerton adding schools, but you Weber fans don't believe it.

The WAC can definitely still offer FBS spots, but the existing WAC schools need to be offered other spots in a different conference. The Montanas considered going FBS back in 2011, but couldn't financially swing it. They would have needed to add too many women's sports and still make facilities improvement. They made a bargain with the WAC that they would reassemble an FBS possible conference before the next CFP is negotiated. The new WAC teams had an understanding that they could fill the Montanas and whoever else that left Big Sky spots. The new WAC will be mostly research schools, and that jives with multiple AD'S in the BSC who have said there will be a new research division. Well that research division will be the WAC.

Why hasn't the WAC invited more DII teams to hop aboard years Ago? It's nearly out of members, Chicago St is on the verge of bankruptcy and closing, and Seattle, GCU, and NMSU could go elsewhere. The WAC will be saved by BSC that want to go FBS, on a strict budget.

 

[Siouxfan2]

The Humanitarian Bowl would immediate offer the WAC rather than the MAC. New bowls in Seattle, Minneapolis, and Frisco, Texas could be locales of WAC affiliated bowls. Last year, three 5-7 teams took the field for bowls as there are too many.

 

[oldrunner]

Runner, where are you getting this wild idea that MSU wants the hell out of the Big Sky?

It was inferred earlier in the topic and has been brought up before by our resident NoDak troll.

Oh, I see. I don't waste my time reading siouxfan's gibberish. :blah:

You are right. I think I'm done with that bull poop as well. :lol:

 

[oldrunner]

I wanted to see what the fans around UND were saying on this subject. I spent a while reading through their forum. It was interesting. Most of them are treating our UND troll the same way we are. They mostly think he is up in the night. There is quite a bit of talk about the possibility of them trying to get into the MVFC/Summit group for football. There is also some talk of the possibility of dropping to DII. The majority seem to think that there is no way they could move to FBS and staying FCS is going to be a stretch. It isn't just them either. NDSU is also having money problems and has been evaluating what they might do.

My guess is that UND will do what ever they can to save their DI hockey program and considerations for all other sports will become secondary. Our travel to their place is way too expensive and we may only have to do it a few times a year. Just think, for a moment, how it is for them every time they leave home. Travel expenses are only expenses. They do nothing to grow your program. They only take away from resources that could be invested in your programs. UND will save their hockey program, how ever they must.

 

[Siouxfan5121]

Not going to read through this entire thread, but I believe they have already shut down the idea of leaving D1 sports. That was one person on the budget committees suggestions. I believe she was tarred and feathered in the middle of campus.

What needs to happen is for several more sports to be cut. UND has way to many sports that they are currently supporting. This would free up a lot of budget.

As far as conference affiliations. There are only a few options that I see happening.
-Cutting some sports to free up money and keeping conference affiliation the same.
-Move to the MVFC (if there were an offer) and the Summit in basketball.
-If allowed, stay in the BSC for football and move to the summit for other sports.

I don't think Pioneer League would ever be in the conversation, as UND is trying to build their football program back into the national conversation as they were in the D2 days.

I know there are some that like the BSC to the WAC and a move to the FBS. I just don't see that happening, at least not in the near future. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I wouldn't put my money on it. Would be kind of fun though. At this point, I just want them to figure out their budget and stabilize.

 

[Siouxfan5121]

I wanted to see what the fans around UND were saying on this subject. I spent a while reading through their forum. It was interesting. Most of them are treating our UND troll the same way we are. They mostly think he is up in the night. There is quite a bit of talk about the possibility of them trying to get into the MVFC/Summit group for football. There is also some talk of the possibility of dropping to DII. The majority seem to think that there is no way they could move to FBS and staying FCS is going to be a stretch. It isn't just them either. NDSU is also having money problems and has been evaluating what they might do.

My guess is that UND will do what ever they can to save their DI hockey program and considerations for all other sports will become secondary. Our travel to their place is way too expensive and we may only have to do it a few times a year. Just think, for a moment, how it is for them every time they leave home. Travel expenses are only expenses. They do nothing to grow your program. They only take away from resources that could be invested in your programs. UND will save their hockey program, how ever they must.

I don't believe hockey is being affected nor will they be affected. That is a pretty self sustaining program. They sellout all home games at The Ralph and make bank. After hockey, football and basketball need to be a priority. If anything is in trouble it is women's hockey, swimming and diving, tennis, golf, maybe even track and field. UND will find a way to stabilize their core sports though.

If cutting sports isn't enough, then they will need to look at their conference affiliation options. But they certainly aren't going to be folding their athletics department.

 

[oldrunner]

Thanks for the update.

That is the first reasonable evaluation we have had out of UND fans, on this subject.

In spite of the distances and travel problems, UND does fit the BSC. I drove through your community last spring and was struck by it's potential. Grand Forks is much like the majority of BSC towns. What ever happens, I wish UND nothing but good luck.

 

[wsucatfan]

Thanks for the update.

That is the first reasonable evaluation we have had out of UND fans, on this subject.

In spite of the distances and travel problems, UND does fit the BSC. I drove through your community last spring and was struck by it's potential. Grand Forks is much like the majority of BSC towns. What ever happens, I wish UND nothing but good luck.

Except whenever they are playing WSU.

 

[Siouxfan5121]

Thanks for the update.

That is the first reasonable evaluation we have had out of UND fans, on this subject.

In spite of the distances and travel problems, UND does fit the BSC. I drove through your community last spring and was struck by it's potential. Grand Forks is much like the majority of BSC towns. What ever happens, I wish UND nothing but good luck.

Except whenever they are playing WSU.

Haha, I hear ya. Have to admit, it was a blast to finally beat you guys in basketball last Spring. Always fun to watch and compete with Weber in basketball.

 

[Siouxfan5121]

There it is folks. UND to the Summit in 2018.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/4204979-sources-und-set-leave-big-sky-conference