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UND Saturday
- Thread starter oldrunner
- Start date
UtahPirate
Active member
thescout said:
Funny you put it that way. We had a bunch of shots rim out -- and their's would bounce around the rim and then drop.
But I'm not taking anything away from ND. The game ended and I felt like we'd been beat. Tough road trip coming up. I guess we'll see what we are made of.
In the first half we played defense as hard as I've seen us play this year. The second half started and we lapsed for seven minutes coming out. I think they outscored us 23-7 in that stretch. We then seemed to dig back in, but it was too late. ND shoots 65% in the second half, that's hard to beat once you give up the lead.
Come on guys...let's break this thing down a bit more:
1. Personnel on the floor. At one point in the second half run we had Dallas playing the 5 and Braxton playing the 4 against Seals. The Dude did the same thing four times in a row and scored each time. The player rotations were terrible. This is just one example. The wrong guys on the floor, playing the wrong positions, and playing selfishly.
2. Point Guard...what has happened to Cody? He looked confused last night and once again he couldnt hit an outside shot. He's play has become really sloppy. It seems like he is tired. Next, Jeremy Senglin is not a point guard and should never play the 1. He is a selfish chucker.
3. Turnovers. So many stupid turnovers. Mostly because nobody would come to the ball or we just played ISO all the time. The lack of team oriented play is killing us. The kids aren't playing as a unit.
4. Randy needs a bigs coach. Our guys lack fundamentals in the paint. The worst is rebounding. No boxing out nothing.
5. Randy totally got out-coached. Our game plan was vanilla and plain and they knew it. BJ knew we wouldn't make adjustments. He knew that defensively we'd do the same thing all game. We get back in the game by pushing the offensive tempo and then goes back to the cards without a competent point guard handling the ball. Worst coaching display in years.
6. Last I checked, our name is the Weber State University Wildcats, not the Senglin State. He needs to be benched. His play last night was beyond selfish. It is criminal what coach allows him to do. Don't get me started on Ryan and his lacksidasical play but nonetheless continues to start at least he plays team ball, not JS! Big time Senglin has to be the hero. One play exemplified his night just over a min to play three guys are guarding him and he takes a 30' jumper. Baker and Richardson are open on the wings. An easy pass each way...nope I got this Jeremy jacks up a shot and misses badly. Randy needs his kids playing as a team. Hooker is by far the better player. He used his team and was far more efficient. I really hope someone can score 20+ when you take 33 shots.
1. Personnel on the floor. At one point in the second half run we had Dallas playing the 5 and Braxton playing the 4 against Seals. The Dude did the same thing four times in a row and scored each time. The player rotations were terrible. This is just one example. The wrong guys on the floor, playing the wrong positions, and playing selfishly.
2. Point Guard...what has happened to Cody? He looked confused last night and once again he couldnt hit an outside shot. He's play has become really sloppy. It seems like he is tired. Next, Jeremy Senglin is not a point guard and should never play the 1. He is a selfish chucker.
3. Turnovers. So many stupid turnovers. Mostly because nobody would come to the ball or we just played ISO all the time. The lack of team oriented play is killing us. The kids aren't playing as a unit.
4. Randy needs a bigs coach. Our guys lack fundamentals in the paint. The worst is rebounding. No boxing out nothing.
5. Randy totally got out-coached. Our game plan was vanilla and plain and they knew it. BJ knew we wouldn't make adjustments. He knew that defensively we'd do the same thing all game. We get back in the game by pushing the offensive tempo and then goes back to the cards without a competent point guard handling the ball. Worst coaching display in years.
6. Last I checked, our name is the Weber State University Wildcats, not the Senglin State. He needs to be benched. His play last night was beyond selfish. It is criminal what coach allows him to do. Don't get me started on Ryan and his lacksidasical play but nonetheless continues to start at least he plays team ball, not JS! Big time Senglin has to be the hero. One play exemplified his night just over a min to play three guys are guarding him and he takes a 30' jumper. Baker and Richardson are open on the wings. An easy pass each way...nope I got this Jeremy jacks up a shot and misses badly. Randy needs his kids playing as a team. Hooker is by far the better player. He used his team and was far more efficient. I really hope someone can score 20+ when you take 33 shots.
sacstateman
Active member
oldrunner said:I agree with you completely, scout.thescout said:
The only teams that seem to be headed south are NAU, Sac, and PSU. The teams that seem to return about the same as this year are UI, UND and MSU. Unless Hall decides to leave. Everyone else in the BSC seems to be bringing in more talent than they have this year. Sometimes you will have a kid who develops fast over a summer, but usually you can see that coming.
The BSC looks to be much stronger next year, top to bottom.
I'm very encouraged at your prediction that Sac is headed south...you were also the one who couldn't see anything in North Dakota pre-season...we lose our 3rd and 4th leading scorers and you guys lose your 1st and 2nd leading scorers and we are headed south...you also said pre-season that you wouldn't take 2 Quinton Hookers for 1 Jeremy Senglin...still sticking to that too I suppose...as long as we are on the wrong side of your predictions, I'm encouraged...
oldrunner
Active member
You're right Statesman; my predictions haven't been very good this year. I was basing my prediction for Sac on what they lose to graduation and what they have signed so far. Sac will probably surprise everyone and bring in a 5 star big man, win the league, and, once again, make my prediction laughable. 
I will say this, Sac has been one of the hottest teams in the BSC the last few weeks. You guys have had some really nice wins. :thumb: :thumb:
I will say this, Sac has been one of the hottest teams in the BSC the last few weeks. You guys have had some really nice wins. :thumb: :thumb:
sacstateman
Active member
Yesterday hurt our chances at a bye...don't know that we can get one now..
Personally I don't like Weber's chances of winning the conference or the tournament. Their whole game is predicated on only one thing - the 3-pt shot. If it is falling they win and if it isn't they can't beat even mid-tier BSC teams consistently. We are consistently pathetic at (1) rebounding and (2) assists! We can, as often as not, be pathetic at shooting the 3. If a game is close at the end we know that Jeremy is going to have the ball in his hands, never pass it and take the last shot. Unfortunately, he has been pathetic at winning games on last shots.
The obvious to me is that Weber is very inconsistent when the game is on the line. The three-point shooters (Senglin &Richardson) and the wanna be three-point shooters (Cannon, Richardson, John and Harding) can't deliver consistently. If we are lucky one of them is "on" in a given game. If that "one" is Senglin then we can beat anyone in the BSC. If that "one" is any of the others it just isn't enough. We don't usually have two 3-pt shooters on in the same game.
If a defense plays to, and is successful, in disrupting our 3-point shooters our "bigs" (Braxton & Hill) just aren't enough to pull out victories. And that is what defenses have figured out so they have put an extra emphasis on stopping the 3-pt shot against us.
If you look at Senglin's history against guys who can defense a reasonably quick outside shooter it is pathetic. In most of those situations he just disappears and in some he keeps throwin'em up and missing. I still can't get over how badly he "disappeared" against Xavier in the NCAA's last year. Did the same thing against Iona this year. They had a guy who could out athletic him and shut him down completely. There are even several BSC teams that have the talent to shut down his shot.
Our offense is not flexible enough, and talented enough, to score 70-80 points against a good defensive team and that is what is needed to win. I predict that we will end up this year going to a third or fourth tier tournament.
My hope is that the players coming in next year will be better overall than the likes of Cannon and John at point and better than the likes of Richardson & Baker at the wing. Chapman has to be a better and more consistent player than Hill and maybe even an improvement at the wing if Kozak proves capable of manning the PF as a freshman. Lets hope that Rick Nelson, Tre'von Turner, Riley Court, Brekkot Chapman and Kozak are the answer. If not, it will be a very disappointing season again next year. Harding and Braxton will further improve next year. I think with Gittens (if he plays) Richardson, Cannon, Dallas, Baker & John you have players who can be good compliments, but we have already seen enough of them to know what we got. They won't be substantially better next season than they are this season. At best, they are adequate role players who can compliment the more talented members of the team. I know that Stavrev is a very good shooter, but am not sure that he has enough talent to make a difference if he is on the team next year. Doesn't seem to me that Darling has any chance of remaining next year.
Lets hope that the new recruits are the answer because what we have coming back just ain't enough.
The obvious to me is that Weber is very inconsistent when the game is on the line. The three-point shooters (Senglin &Richardson) and the wanna be three-point shooters (Cannon, Richardson, John and Harding) can't deliver consistently. If we are lucky one of them is "on" in a given game. If that "one" is Senglin then we can beat anyone in the BSC. If that "one" is any of the others it just isn't enough. We don't usually have two 3-pt shooters on in the same game.
If a defense plays to, and is successful, in disrupting our 3-point shooters our "bigs" (Braxton & Hill) just aren't enough to pull out victories. And that is what defenses have figured out so they have put an extra emphasis on stopping the 3-pt shot against us.
If you look at Senglin's history against guys who can defense a reasonably quick outside shooter it is pathetic. In most of those situations he just disappears and in some he keeps throwin'em up and missing. I still can't get over how badly he "disappeared" against Xavier in the NCAA's last year. Did the same thing against Iona this year. They had a guy who could out athletic him and shut him down completely. There are even several BSC teams that have the talent to shut down his shot.
Our offense is not flexible enough, and talented enough, to score 70-80 points against a good defensive team and that is what is needed to win. I predict that we will end up this year going to a third or fourth tier tournament.
My hope is that the players coming in next year will be better overall than the likes of Cannon and John at point and better than the likes of Richardson & Baker at the wing. Chapman has to be a better and more consistent player than Hill and maybe even an improvement at the wing if Kozak proves capable of manning the PF as a freshman. Lets hope that Rick Nelson, Tre'von Turner, Riley Court, Brekkot Chapman and Kozak are the answer. If not, it will be a very disappointing season again next year. Harding and Braxton will further improve next year. I think with Gittens (if he plays) Richardson, Cannon, Dallas, Baker & John you have players who can be good compliments, but we have already seen enough of them to know what we got. They won't be substantially better next season than they are this season. At best, they are adequate role players who can compliment the more talented members of the team. I know that Stavrev is a very good shooter, but am not sure that he has enough talent to make a difference if he is on the team next year. Doesn't seem to me that Darling has any chance of remaining next year.
Lets hope that the new recruits are the answer because what we have coming back just ain't enough.
Senglin is an excellent shooter especially at the BSC level , crandall from UND has the best combo of length, quicks and hops of any BSC guards and Senglin has played well overall vs UND last 2 years...he was not first team all BSC because of his looks....but because of efficent scoring and team success
Despite all the grief we've harped on the players 1-5 WSU is a tough team to beat and one to be feared come tournament play. It took WSU shooting a season low (16%) to get beat by UND and for a team leading the nation in 3pt% I'll bet they don't repeat that percent anytime soon. I'm as pissed off as the next Weber fan that we lost but thankfully a WSU loss in conference is a BSC abnormality. I expect WSU to win every game, and (unfortunately) realistically that's not going to happen.
I think the bottom line is Weber is in a group of 3-4 teams that can realistically win the tournament. Regular season doesn't mean squat since no home court advantage is in play. Let's hope they can get on a little hot streak and finish strong.
Rahe needs to spread out the minutes more. I think Rahes coaching Saturday night was suspect. His post game comments that "we just got beat but we played our tail off" gets a little old.
ND definitely looks like the favorite right now to win the tournament but a lot can happen and the league top to bottom is pretty weak which should give Weber a decent shot at winning the tourny.
Rahe needs to spread out the minutes more. I think Rahes coaching Saturday night was suspect. His post game comments that "we just got beat but we played our tail off" gets a little old.
ND definitely looks like the favorite right now to win the tournament but a lot can happen and the league top to bottom is pretty weak which should give Weber a decent shot at winning the tourny.
UtahPirate
Active member
baller said:
Baller, I always appreciate a good rant, but my frustration doesn't lay with the offense. We have been an extremely fun team to watch shoot the ball. Our season FG% is just shy of 50%, we have lead the nation in 3-point shooting for the last several weeks. I've loved watching this team shoot the ball, even with the difficulties we've shown in the last several games. Rahe says we are tired and have lost our legs. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt there, he knows the players better than I do. Not sure what he's going to do to help get those legs (and shots) back, but I guess we'll see.
I think our Achilles heel is rebounding. We don't rebound well. I don't know if the source is an inability to block out, or a lack of innate rebounding sense, or a problem because Joel was such a monster on the boards that we have several players who just haven't learned how to board. I do think that both Braxton and Dallas have poor timing. They seem to go up before a ball starts coming down allowing an offensive player to grab the ball with better timing. I think the John does a good job of filling in the cracks, but am unsure of Senglin or Richardson as rebounders.
Here's how that has cost us:
Sac out rebounded us 41 to 26 which cost us the game.
NoCol took 13 more shots than we did, which kept them in the game (part of that was how efficient Braxton and Hill were in the second half as we didn't miss a whole lot).
ND had 38 boards to our 28 -- and shot 65% in the second half, which skews that statistic even more.
As a team (and keep in mind several of the overmatched opponents we had earlier in the season) we've had 177 offensive rebounds to our opponents 261. That means that opponents have had almost 100 second chance opportunities because of our inability to grab their missed shots.
That is our problem. That is what needs to be fixed for us to make a final run for the season. I think the shots will start falling again. But we have got to eliminate opponents second chances to win more consistently.
Pirate, I agree completely with you. Rebounding is the problem but it is obvious that we are not gong to get better at rebounding in the remainder of this season. We would have won quite a few more games with better rebounding. But Raye has recruited players who are supposed to be able to shoot the 3 and designed an offense that depends on 3-pt shooting to win. It doesn't seem to me that Randy's teams have ever been very good at assist or at rebounding. Joel's ability in this area helped them greatly to look like a better rebounding team than they actually were. And now that he is gone the weakness in our rebounding is obvious.
Since Rahe designed the offense with less of an emphasis on rebounding and more of an emphasis on 3pt shooting. Since good 3pt shooting requires "untired" legs and our guys have all of a sudden developed tired legs, why would he design a system that depends on something that isn't there late in the season? Or maybe he has done a poor job of conditioning them to last a whole season? Tired legs is just his latest excuse for why they haven't shot well lately. If Rahe knows they have tired legs why wouldn't he alter the offense to compensate for this, i.e., one less based on the 3pt shot. Good coaches can "fine tune" their offense and defense for changes that naturally occur throughout the season and develop schemes that reflect their opponents.
Lets face it, Randy Rahe gets his butt kicked quite often by coaches who are better at adapting to changing conditions and different teams. He got schooled on Saturday night and for that matter on Thursday night also. Just so happens that the Thursday night opponent didn't have the horses to pull out the victory even with better schemes.
Since Rahe designed the offense with less of an emphasis on rebounding and more of an emphasis on 3pt shooting. Since good 3pt shooting requires "untired" legs and our guys have all of a sudden developed tired legs, why would he design a system that depends on something that isn't there late in the season? Or maybe he has done a poor job of conditioning them to last a whole season? Tired legs is just his latest excuse for why they haven't shot well lately. If Rahe knows they have tired legs why wouldn't he alter the offense to compensate for this, i.e., one less based on the 3pt shot. Good coaches can "fine tune" their offense and defense for changes that naturally occur throughout the season and develop schemes that reflect their opponents.
Lets face it, Randy Rahe gets his butt kicked quite often by coaches who are better at adapting to changing conditions and different teams. He got schooled on Saturday night and for that matter on Thursday night also. Just so happens that the Thursday night opponent didn't have the horses to pull out the victory even with better schemes.
