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Vandals to the Sky???
- Thread starter thewaterboy
- Start date
Visited GoVandals.net (Idaho's fan forum) & read Pat Hauge's interview with Idaho AD Rob Spear, 3/5/2016, my impressions (if interested, check it out to form your own regarding this thread subject):
First, said the NCAA "rules" regarding forming an FBS football league require 6 schools, & can be under an "umbrella" of the existing conference (BSC, WAC); if approved by the NCAA committees, of course would then compete for the bowl scenario (not the FCS playoffs). BSC-wise, he implied it would be a few years down the road & that there are some schools having interest. Interesting comment that presently the BSC set up is where you don't have a league that "feels together", what with 13 members being too large & spreadout.
Idaho's desire is FBS as has been stated, short term looking closely to see if it's possible to put together an independent FBS playing schedule to cover a few years (like NMSU is indicating & has been done before for a awhile).
Stated that this is what retiring BSC Commish has speculated earlier (a seperate FBS breakout), but with a new administration coming in may change. Idaho has a "soft" deadline from the Big Sky to decide if it wants in under the present setup of May 4.
Note: for those talking the "new" league being for basketball also, the NCAA basketball rule is you have 7 schools at least that have been grouped together 8 years, in order for the league to get a auto-bid to the NCAA tourney.
First, said the NCAA "rules" regarding forming an FBS football league require 6 schools, & can be under an "umbrella" of the existing conference (BSC, WAC); if approved by the NCAA committees, of course would then compete for the bowl scenario (not the FCS playoffs). BSC-wise, he implied it would be a few years down the road & that there are some schools having interest. Interesting comment that presently the BSC set up is where you don't have a league that "feels together", what with 13 members being too large & spreadout.
Idaho's desire is FBS as has been stated, short term looking closely to see if it's possible to put together an independent FBS playing schedule to cover a few years (like NMSU is indicating & has been done before for a awhile).
Stated that this is what retiring BSC Commish has speculated earlier (a seperate FBS breakout), but with a new administration coming in may change. Idaho has a "soft" deadline from the Big Sky to decide if it wants in under the present setup of May 4.
Note: for those talking the "new" league being for basketball also, the NCAA basketball rule is you have 7 schools at least that have been grouped together 8 years, in order for the league to get a auto-bid to the NCAA tourney.
There is nothing about the FBS that is attractive to me, outside of the power 5 conferences the other FBS conferences are seen as irrelevant, and will continue to drop in irrelevance as the years go by, While it's no guarantee, I would hate to see Weber turn out to be another Idaho, in other words the laughing stock of FBS football, there are several schools who are failing at maintaining any kind of success at the FBS level and are having a hard time financially surviving at that level. In my opinion it would be better for Weber overall to stay in the FCS, besides, I would much rather watch Weber play Jacksonville State for an FCS National Title than watch them play Arkansas State in the Allstate who gives a crap bowl.
WILDCAT said:
FCS schools/fans are about the only ones that feel that way, look at UI/NMSU they're doing everything in their power to stay FBS, even though regionally the BSC makes sense they would have rather played Sunbelt teams on the East coast. FCS to the general sports fans is inferior and irrelevant, lumped in with D-II, D-III, NAIA.
I am a Weber State fan but I hope that whatever power shift happens when the P5 schools break away that WSU ends up in the 2nd tier, with UM, EWU, Utah St, Nevada. Not left behind with SUU, NCU, ISU... Garside asked fans in St. Lewis at the NCAA tournament about Weber and they thought we were an NAIA team. That's what happens to your other D-1 teams, they are also considered lower tier.
wsucatfan said:
I agree that if the power 5 break off and there is a "2nd tier" division for football that I would also want Weber to be apart of it, however I don't want Weber to make the jump just for the sake of making it. And I'm sure that there will still be bowls instead of a playoff, yay :roll: Also moving to the FBS will not make Weber relevant in the eye's of the national sports media.
The fans that Garside interviewed are idiots, if you don't know who Weber State is, you obviously haven't followed college basketball for very long and aren't as big a fan of the sport as they think they are. I was in San Francisco a few years ago and while the family and I were eating dinner at a restaurant, our waiter laughed after looking at my sweater (it was a Weber State sweater) He looked at me and said he was a Duke fan an Weber had become one of his favorite schools to root for since they beat North Carolina. Most casual fans know who Weber is just by name alone.
Idaho and New Mexico State are doing everything in their power to stay FCS, and it has made them both laughing stocks, the butt end of jokes all over the sports world.
WILDCAT said:
Yeah, you're probably right, but it might make a difference with the local media, and the more passive WSU fans. It might help attendance too, having better teams playing football/basketball at WSU.
WILDCAT said:
Most casual fans might have heard of Weber, but I doubt many really know who Weber is. Having Damian Lillard has helped put WSU on the map more so than anything else. Duke, North Carolina, MSU fans are aware for sure, back in 2009 Duke fans emptied the WSU online bookstore of WSU gear to wear to irritate UNC.
WILDCAT said:
And yet it's still worth it for them to fight to be included... :doh:
oldrunner
Active member
The break away of the so called power 5 for football has created a problem for D1 in general. The NCAA will need to decide if they want two levels within D1 or three. I personally feel that they will opt for two and that FBS/FCS will cease to exist. I feel that there will be a new subdivision created that will incorporate what is left of the FBS with FCS. The new subdivision would have a new set of rules that would be targeted at keeping the new subdivision financially sound and competitive. What I am saying is that there would be little difference between the MWC and BSC as far as football is concerned. The biggest issue to overcome is what to do with all the toilet bowls out there. I agree, who really cares that Utah State has an opportunity to play in the Standard Plumbing's Urinal Bowl.
thewaterboy
Active member
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/college/university-of-idaho/article74259832.html Press Conference tomorrow to make the move back to the Big Sky official
oldrunner
Active member
That is a good article. It hits the nail on the head. They really have no relevant choice in the matter. They can go bankrupt or they can play at the level where they are viable. There will be many more to follow, until the NCAA steps in and does it for everyone not P5. :twocents:
SWeberCat02
Active member
Did you even read the article? They're actually better off financially staying FBS, even as an independent. So no, they wouldn't have gone bankrupt.oldrunner said:
SWeberCat02
Active member
That's going to be one big, bloated conference. So now we'll get to see some conference teams play in Ogden about once a decade. What a disaster.
SWeberCat02 said:
Not taking sides, but it seems that the Vandals are better off "if" they are members of the Sun Belt (which we can all agree really isn't FBS...IN NAME ONLY). They are losing their conference affiliation, which means they are losing conference benefits (which the P5 graciously throws 1M at them each year). However, on the flip side, Idaho will not have to fund an additional 22 scholarships (which for instate kids would be approximately 16K, including books, fees, and living arrangements. Nobody is really commuting to MOSCOW IDAHO and 30K for out of state kids), and on travle, which averages 4-5 cross country flights (about 100K each time).
Now, I for one realize that FCS isn't anything to brag about and that FCS Football, to the casual football fan, is irrelevant. FCS fans are really the only people who legitimately care, but unless you are P5 (even then that doesn't always = $$$) or have a stronger regional following (see USU) then you are IRRELEVANT. You can't tell me that people think that Louisiana-Monroe, Eastern Michigan, or Troy are better than, or in a better situation than Montana, North Dakota State, or Deleware? The split is between the haves and the have nots.
SWeberCat02
Active member
I agree that Idaho is much better suited for FCS. They never should have left. But interestingly enough, from everything I've read money isn't one of the reasons why they should drop down. They would get paid much more playing body bag games as a FBS member than as a FCS member. But there really isn't any other good reasons to stay FBS, and they can see that all of the benefits to dropping down out weigh the one reason there is to stay.talhadfoursteals said:
Idaho is a good add to the Big Sky but a 14 team football conference is way too big, even if it's split into two divisions.
wsucatfan said:
I agree and think that possibility is in the back of the Idaho admin.'s minds...sort of surprised they decided against returning to independent FBS for a short while, as that would be financially better even with the diminishing returns. I would assume that the Pres.'s comment that winning games beats losing most of the time is a part of the equation. But honestly I do not think present time, Idaho, Montanas, even Eastern Wash. consider Weber State a desirable new league member based on comments I've read over the past few years on football rivalries & "good fits" in a possible new alliance, whatever the level it's at. It would likely take a different mix, perhaps the "northerners" of the Big Sky. :twocents:
AlumniWSU said:
Agreed with what both of you are saying. Since reading the news, I've been scouring all possible media outlets for additional information. We definitely know that the league, for football at least (already has happened for Volleyball) will split into divisions. Now, the concern is where will the Wildcats fall. I think that the division placement will be the impetus of future location, and a sign of who could end up in the "new" Big Sky and who will remain in the "old" Big Sky. That could be the beginning of a terrible slide into absolute irrelevance.
For instance, the conference has talked at length about this throughout the past year. Doug last August mentioned it and the Deputy Commissioner of the Big Sky was quoted in a Cedar newspaper, a few weeks ago, about the possibility of creating two conferences under one banner. The NCAA only requires 6 member institutions to create a new FBS Conference. However, the kicker is going to be BASKETBALL. Schools aren't going to want to give up the chance to get to The Dance, and to have an automatic bid into The Dance, teams have to play together under a conference for 8 years. Maybe Idaho is thinking, "hmmm, we could stomach an 8 year FCS run, in a "new" Big Sky, get a chance to see how the issue with P5 and G5 shakes out, and then in less than a decade bolt with the other 6 in our division, and create a new conference." We all know the Sky is too big.
What makes Weber viable?? Jerry has done an excellent job of retaining Randy Rahe (some of you will disagree with me on that, and that is fine. No matter what he is a winner and we win with him). He has really improved our facilities and has some great plans in place to really take us to another level, facilities wise. To argue, he has already put us head and shoulders above 90% of FCS Schools and thanks to Damian Lillard, we have one of the best Adidas deals in the country, well, for FCS. Academically, Weber is extremely strong. Our APR continues to improve. Our athletes are graduating, and our teams are being honored. This has been a major priority of Jerry. Lastly, I feel, we have the coaches in place to really become successful in all facets of athletics. If we can keep Jay Hill around for 3 more years, we will be in a great spot for Football...
1. Facilities
2. Academics
3. Basketball
What hurts Weber?
1. REVENUE GENERATION and FAN ATTENDANCE...JERRY has been dismal in these areas. Granted, it really isn't his job, but he hires and supervises those who's jobs it is.
2. USU...I don't think Utah or BYU would care, but we all know USU would give their right nut to keep Weber irrelevant. They don't have much of an angle as is and they don't want anyone cutting into what they do have. You better believe USU will fight any opportunity Weber has to move up.
3. STUDENT INTEREST...this could be up with #1, but it is a major factor. Students at Weber, not just basketball fans in St. Louis, think Weber is a NAIA. WE desperately need more of a drive to improve this area. These are our future donors, supporters, boosters...
4. MEDIA...this is improving, but we are starting to get overlooked by UVU...see KSL. They still haven't mentioned that Weber signed the reigning PLAYER OF THE YEAR from Kansas instead of a has been from Idaho. We signed one of those a few years back too...He is at Dixie now.
SWeberCat02
Active member
talhadfoursteals said:
As I understood it, splitting into two separate conferences would be for football only, either one FCS and one FBS, or much more likely two FCS conferences. This would give conference teams two auto bids for the FCS playoffs. I have never heard talk of splitting into two conferences for other sports.
PurpleBlood
Active member
Here is the consultants report on the Vandals decision:
http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2016...nsultants-report-which-reveled-a-bunch-or-new
http://www.underdogdynasty.com/2016...nsultants-report-which-reveled-a-bunch-or-new
Interesting article, but what I found most interesting is that when discussing a big sky/wac merger with an fbs and fcs football league, Weber was left off the list completely.
Now, I don't want to read to much into this, but I assume that means our football program is going to the PAC"13". :lol:
Now, I don't want to read to much into this, but I assume that means our football program is going to the PAC"13". :lol:
MrLevski
Active member
If the FBS/FCS conference actually came to be, it would be fun to add promotion and relegation to it--similar to what the Premier League has. Each year the worst FBS team would be regulated FCS conference and the FCS conference would be promoted to the FBS side of the ledger. It would give teams a big incentive to play hard all year long. Too bad there's no chance of this ever happening.
