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Viks Doing their Part for the State

BroadwayVik

Active member
The Portland State Vikings are now helping Eastern Oregon University (hopefully) with a nice pay-day for their football program. While serving as a tune-up game for the Vikings in preparation for the game with the Cal Bears in Berkeley, the game also provides benefits to the D-III Eastern Oregon Mountaineers and, transitively, to the state of Oregon as a whole.

First, playing an FCS team provides the Mountaineers with the opportunity to play above their customary level of play at the D-III level. The first game of the year provides both teams with the opportunity to work out "execution bugs" during live action. The Viks will school the Mountaineers within friendly confines while gaining more play execution tempo for themselves. The game will also likely reward EOU with a payday higher to which they are accustomed.
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Though player injury looms as a real possibility to either team, the Viks do not seek to injure key players.

A few years back, in 2011, the Viks played the Southern Oregon University Raiders in similar fashion. The final score was 52-0, but the Vikings could literally have scored 100 points or more.

I had suggested that we use such games as a tribute to the high-scoring teams from the Mouse Davis Era, and that the real challenge, basis and yardstick of the game be to see if the Viks could score to exceed 100 points while simultaneously pitching a shutout against the competition. Would this be an exciting game to watch live? I certainly would be there to see it (and FEEL it).

If we ensure that this set of conditions be made known and agreed to beforehand to our Oregon small-college opposition, then sportsmanship is retained: It merely changes the conditions of the game and would turn the tune-up game into a whole lot of fun for the Viking and the fans in the stands. It is like the experience the UO Ducks had when they played us. The opposition is not crushed, especially if they score on us or keep us from our 100-point goal. This way, the game becomes a highly interesting track meet not easy to accomplish and uniquely PSU. And because of the magnitude of our goal, execution for the Viks naturally becomes highly sharpened, both on Offense and Defense, and on Special Teams. The goal of such games is to sharpen team execution and bring things into clearer focus. This maximizes the benefit of any tune-up game. Well, this scheme would do exactly that. This would be highly entertaining as well.
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As the game stands now, I honestly can find no motivation in going to witness it live. It stands merely as a tune-up game for the Viks and the Mountaineers may not realize much of a payoff for their visit; that is, unless the Viks athletics leadership has already guaranteed them a certain amount. In such case the Viks will eat the loss. Again. Alas, the fuddy-duddiness of it all.
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Did you know that excitement generates dollars at the box office, and that games can be MADE exciting no matter who the opponent? Is our slogan "Keep Portland weird ... and boring" ...? "Keep things safe for the fuddy-duddies"? Is that what Portland is all about? Maybe that is the perspective from the outside.

Are our relationships with Oregon's small colleges so fragile that such an arrangement as this would place them in a state of disrepair? To me, such a contest would give PSU a deeper sense of its own identity and give our small college teams something to fight for. In terms of our leadership, we need to get rid of the deadweight so we can get this balloon off the ground. Sportsmanship is not lost if the conditions are agreed to beforehand. We need to audit our athletics leadership and get rid of the mediocrity-embracing fuddy-duddies, the deadweight. And the personnel problem is not Torre.
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BV, your reasoning and benefits of this game (for both programs) I agree are sound. However, a team setting a goal of scoring 100 pts and sharing that prospect with the other team as some kind of ground rule seems a bit ludicrous. Just let the teams play. When the Vik's coaches have given the top of the depth chart adequate reps to feel good about their execution it is time to move further down and give the rest of the lineup an opportunity for that valuable game experience. Besides, the pistol is designed to score points for sure, but it's not Mouse's scheme of trying to score on a pass play each down.
 
Depends on how you look at it. The Viks could not have put 100 on Carroll College last year, but they could have on Southern Oregon the year before. A moral win for Carroll College, a moral win for the Viks against SOU.

One hundred points is just a nice round number. The number could be adjusted for each small college opponent we play. Example: For Carroll College, our announced (mutually agreed-upon) standard could have been 50-10. For SOU, it could have been 75-3. Now that an agreed-upon standard has been set, will the small college be able to beat that spread? Or will the Viks manage themselves under or over that standard? The whole game all of a sudden has meaning and excitement that it previously lacked.

Is a basis for gambling being sought. I don't know. I don't gamble.

"Just let them play" is without a goal, a bar, standard. "Just blow in the wind" and find out the outcome afterward does not draw much interest, as you will find out in August. It becomes just another tune-up game without much meaning attached whatsoever. Guess I'll mow the lawn and find out the outcome afterward.
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Prediction: Viks 54 EOU 13
 
My opinion is that a game such as this, or the SOU game for that matter, is basically the final scrimmage of the fall in preparation for the 2013 campaign.

Win by 75? 100? Who really cares.

This gives us a chance to get an early jump on putting a game plan in place, which I think is invaluable for both the coaching staff, as well as the younger players, and players that have transferred in. Additionally, it's extra time to address any issues that the coaching staff sees in coming out of camp. However, with a game like this, there is room for error. Real time game experience is very valuable.

Look at the last two years with games like this

2011: Faced NAU (conference game) in the game after the tune-up game, and won 31-29. Were there mistakes that were addressed in the tune-up game that enabled us to win?

2012: Faced UND (non-conference game) in the game after the tune-up game, and lost by 8. Would this loss have been worse if we had not played Carroll?

So, with that said, I just treat it for what it is. The final scrimmage. Will I go? Sure, I typically try to catch the last scrimmage of the fall...
 
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I thought at least you'd understand the point I was making, m&m, but I guess you don't either. I think the culture here is in a state of grand disappointment and the lethargy it produces in affected human beings is infectious.

Gesundheit! Again: If you have a *spread* to shoot for, it turns an otherwise boring tune-up game into one much more interesting, and it sharpens player focus all around. Why? Because the players CARE much more about getting their rhythm down and having their assignments filled. Why? Because there is a challenging standard to achieve, one that has been set according to statistics. That makes for keen preparation for the real game ahead, doesn't it? It creates optimal conditions FOR the tune-up game.

Surely, you appreciate those two aspects. Statistics is a science and so this is a scientific game production with measurable results, like an experimental design. Who cares? I sure the hell do.

Do you? I feel like the manufacturing statistical prophet W.E. Deming who found American business people so damnably arrogant that the only ones who'd listen to him were the post-war Japanese. He told them the good news and look at the state of where their manufacturing prowess is today. Listening can pay off big time. How's Detroit doing these days?
 
BroadwayVik said:
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I thought at least you'd understand the point I was making, m&m, but I guess you don't either. I think the culture here is in a state of grand disappointment and the lethargy it produces in affected human beings is infectious.

Gesundheit! Just admit it: You don't really fully understand the central point of my proposal, do you? How can you when you were duplicating many of the points I already made.

Again: If you have a *spread* to shoot for, it turns an otherwise boring tune-up game into one much more interesting, and it sharpens player focus all around. Why? Because the players CARE much more about getting their rhythm down and having their assignments filled. Why? Because there is a challenging standard to achieve, one that has been statistically set. That makes for keen preparation for the real game ahead, doesn't it? It creates optimal conditions FOR the tune-up game.

Surely, you appreciate those two aspects. Statistics is a science and so this is a scientific game production with measurable results, like an experimental design. Who cares? I sure the hell do.

Do you? I feel like the manufacturing statistical prophet W.E. Deming who found American business people so damnably arrogant that the only ones who'd listen to him were the post-war Japanese. He told them the good news and look at the state of where their manufacturing prowess is today. Listening can pay off big.

Well, I guess here is where you and I differ. I don't understand the 'spread' to shoot for.

Opposing coach: "Hey team, anything better than a 75-0 loss is a win for us."

Is that what you're saying, or am I missing something?
 
You're missing the point entirely! You're oversimplifying it and incorrectly so. It has to do with a priori expectation (these are set according to odds) and the motivational effect on both teams trying to meet (or overcome) these expectations in the tune-up game.

Most Americans are math-illiterate and do not readily grasp the effect at first (or at all). Math-literate people would understand the psychological impact more readily. Believe me, there would be great profit developmentally for the team in applying this formula. It would create a thing of rare beauty. I think you can see it if you contemplate it and not be concerned initially about how it would be communicated to the other team. Once you get it, then you can schmooze the small college into it's benefits as they benefit as well.
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Torre is an economist. He's used to statistical effects. Maybe he can explain it to you so long as he remains intellectually-honest and apolitical about it.
 
BroadwayVik said:
You're missing the point entirely! You're oversimplifying it and incorrectly so. It has to do with a priori expectation (these are set according to odds) and the motivational effect on both teams trying to meet (or overcome) these expectations in the tune-up game.

Most Americans are math-illiterate and do not readily grasp the effect at first (or at all). Math-literate people would understand the psychological impact more readily. Believe me, there would be great profit developmentally for the team in applying this formula. It would create a thing of rare beauty. I think you can see it if you contemplate it and not be concerned initially about how it would be communicated to the other team. Once you get it, then you can schmooze the small college into it's benefits as they benefit as well.
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Torre is an economist. He's used to statistical effects. Maybe he can explain it to you so long as he remains intellectually-honest and apolitical about it.

Quite condescending.
 
It was not intended to be condescending. Quite a lot of political nonsense.

Why did you opt to take it that way? Because you don't get math? Does everyone? No. Your talents are likely elsewhere. Probably you're a people person. That has tremendous value. We can't be good at everything. We have different talents. That's what makes a society and why we ultimately need one another's services.

But does that make mathematical truth less true? Of course not. What stops mathematical truth from being implemented in this country? Distortion politics from people whose forte it is not.
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Which way, Portland State University?

Which is the current slogan of our Athletics Department?:

(1) "Embrace Mediocrity So I Can Keep My Sinecure" ... ?

(2) "No Vision is My Vision" ... ?

(3) "Leadership to Whatever Random Chance Provides" ... ?

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There is no question: We simply MUST create more social competition for who becomes a Portland State University cheerleader. They are traditionally held by a university's socially best and brightest, often elite students who have gymnastics experience.
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Right now, the football and basketball experience leave these positions wanting. They need to be winners in order for cheer leading positions to be highly sought after amongst the student body.
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The Portland weather befits Viking weather. The mythological wonderment befits the Pacific wonderland of Oregon.
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******************************** It's good to be the Vikings. *******************
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I'm fellow Viking Steve Amen from Oregon Field Guide. I have a question which is revealed in the next post below: Who is physically taller, Superman or Thor? When you're ready, scroll down to see.
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Thor is, and by quite a bit. He could be a basketball player in that he stands 6-6. Superman is 6-3 and weighs 225. I don't know how much Thor weighs.
 
This is just silly. Nobody really wants to watch a 100-0 game. As someone who was at the game against Delaware State in 1980, I can tell you it was pretty boring after the first quarter and many people left. The week before (a 93-7 blasting of Roman Gabriel's Cal Poly team) was about the same. The crowd actually cheered for the visitors when they scored in the last minute of the game. Both teams were D1-AA by the way.

People will get excited when this team beats up on a good team. Beating a DIII team by 100 is nothing more than a classless display in my opinion. To challenge a visiting team not to get beat by 100, no matter who they are, is even worse. We may be much better than EO, but we are in no position to be arrogant.

It's a tune-up game. Let's leave it at that and just be glad we don't play Cal our first step out of the gate. Hopefully we'll be 3-1 going into the Cal Poly game and 4-1 when we travel to Montana. Maybe then the kids will believe in themselves enough to pull out wins against our toughest Big Sky opponents.

If Portlanders can't get interested enough in THEIR team to come downtown to a sunny game in August to drink a beer in their $10 seat and enjoy themselves, then we can't help them with gimmicks. Let's face it, people will continue to spend 4+ hours in the car on a Saturday to pay a couple hundred bucks to sit in the rain beerless and watch the Ducks and Beavers until we give them something better. That means consistently winning against good competition. If we can do that, then the stadium will be as packed for PSU football as it is for Timbers soccer. When that day comes, we won't be arguing about whether its a good idea to advertise a challenge that we could beat a DIII team by 100.
 
By the way, the term "Math-literate American" is an oxymoron. If that's a fan base, Mouse Davis is taller than both Superman and Thor.
 
Math-literate Americans are somewhat rare but, believe me, they exist in fairly substantial numbers. So, it is certainly not an oxymoron.

Again, the idea is to make the high-scoring game NOT BORING. Kind of like Vegas. you dig? You maximize probablistic expectations and then allow both teams to do their utmost to reach or prevent it. That way, the underdog can win a moral victory. PSU, typically, does not play football games with a betting line.

Your examples from the '70 were insightful but not relevant to this discussion as they were not played under the same set of conditions. If they had been, then in the Delaware State game, PSU would have won the bet as they met their goal 106-0 (PSU covered the spread). In the second game, Cal Poly-Pomona would have won the bet as they prevented PSU from reaching their goal while also scoring, 93-7 (they beat the spread). Such kind of scores are really only achievable with D-III teams nowadays, wouldn't you say?
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Roman says 'hi,' BTW. NCSU
Maybe we should have throw-back uniform night using these uniforms, eh?
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