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Weber vs EWU
- Thread starter Itiger
- Start date
oldrunner
Active member
It really is like a flip of the switch for us and many others. For us, winning the BSC championship makes it a good year, winning the BSC tournament makes it better, winning a post season game makes it a great year, and winning more than one makes it fantastic. All of those things are still attainable.
The preseason has been less than stellar. Last year's was worse. Our future is still within our control.
We could lose both of these road games and still win the League. It's going to be a very competitive year in the BSC. Buckle up, it could be a bumpy ride.
The preseason has been less than stellar. Last year's was worse. Our future is still within our control.
We could lose both of these road games and still win the League. It's going to be a very competitive year in the BSC. Buckle up, it could be a bumpy ride.
Webergrad02
Active member
Here we go again with the comparative scores and schedules. I am not sure how much worse last years non conference was. We simply did not have enough games to gauge where the team was. There was also way too much time in between games. Last year we did not have a game like we had this year at Oklahoma. Last year we had that miserable loss at UVU maybe our loss at UT Arlington is similar. I think this team may not get a single D-1 win with last years schedule. But its not last year so who really cares?oldrunner said:
Why can't we ever just leave it at we did not have a great pre-season? I know this. Eastern looks very good. We are going to need to play a complete game to win. We must defend the perimeter well. We need to force Harvey to take bad shots. Jois is going to give us a tough match up in the paint. We will know after Thursday if we can compete for the Big Sky. True the games this week are not make or break, but they will be a good measuring stick for exactly where we are.
What is up with Eastern and all of the early tip off times?
Cats meow!
Active member
I've been a cat fan for years and recently returned to Utah from the Bay Area! Been able to catch a couple of games and have watched Weber online when I'm out of town.
I'm excited about supporting the Cats, but see this as a down year. I hope you can be a fan without having to drink the Kool aid, but it's going to be a tough year. I think we'll be lucky to be .500 in conference play. I just don't think we have the players. We have one good win against ORU on a buzzer beater and the BASKETBALL talent on the floor seems to be lacking. While most other BSC schools have been getting better, we've taken a huge step back. I thought we had great athletes until I saw them against Oklahoma!
This is a major transition year, but the scary part is our roster is bare. We are going to struggle to compete this year and next because our starting five, which are all underclassmen are not talent enough in the positions they play to be part of a championship team. Looks like Rahe tried to cover that up with our JC's and that was another significant miss. Our new JC players were JC for a reason. It would've been better to bring in two more Freshman and develop them for the future.
I realized that some of you will attack me for being honest in my opinions, but I've read your prediction on how the year is going to develop and I just don't see us winning the championship! If we were able to win the conference, it would be embarrassing to have to play a play in game in the NCAA tournament. After our OOC season a 15th seed would be a gift!
I'd like for us to admit we are short on talent and spend the next 2 years upgrading the roster. We already have more players claiming scholarships than we have available. Let's go a head and clean house and right the ship! There's a reason some players got high level offers in football! It's because they are great athletes...... Just not good basketball players. Rahe developed the attitude that they would recruit great athletes and make them basketball players. It's just not working. I'm also looking at next years recruits and the talent just isn't there.
I apologize if my comments upset you, but I think it's important to take a hard look at this years team and ask ourselves is this a championship team this year and next year! If the answer is no. How do we get there!
I'm excited about supporting the Cats, but see this as a down year. I hope you can be a fan without having to drink the Kool aid, but it's going to be a tough year. I think we'll be lucky to be .500 in conference play. I just don't think we have the players. We have one good win against ORU on a buzzer beater and the BASKETBALL talent on the floor seems to be lacking. While most other BSC schools have been getting better, we've taken a huge step back. I thought we had great athletes until I saw them against Oklahoma!
This is a major transition year, but the scary part is our roster is bare. We are going to struggle to compete this year and next because our starting five, which are all underclassmen are not talent enough in the positions they play to be part of a championship team. Looks like Rahe tried to cover that up with our JC's and that was another significant miss. Our new JC players were JC for a reason. It would've been better to bring in two more Freshman and develop them for the future.
I realized that some of you will attack me for being honest in my opinions, but I've read your prediction on how the year is going to develop and I just don't see us winning the championship! If we were able to win the conference, it would be embarrassing to have to play a play in game in the NCAA tournament. After our OOC season a 15th seed would be a gift!
I'd like for us to admit we are short on talent and spend the next 2 years upgrading the roster. We already have more players claiming scholarships than we have available. Let's go a head and clean house and right the ship! There's a reason some players got high level offers in football! It's because they are great athletes...... Just not good basketball players. Rahe developed the attitude that they would recruit great athletes and make them basketball players. It's just not working. I'm also looking at next years recruits and the talent just isn't there.
I apologize if my comments upset you, but I think it's important to take a hard look at this years team and ask ourselves is this a championship team this year and next year! If the answer is no. How do we get there!
SWWeatherCat
Active member
@Cats meow!
Well stated. I don't have the answer but see things nearly 100% the same. In a temporary change from my pessimistic self (I like to think realistic self) I had the purple shades on over the Summer, knowing full well how much talent was being lost the past couple of seasons. This team is NOT in a good position even though I fully believe Braxton is the real deal and in a position Weber is struggling greatly with.
Your assessment of recruiting athletes and making them basketball players seems spot on with the current struggles and a very poor strategy in my opinion, however, I'm interested in competing in every game, not just the BSC. I believe Weber stays above .500 in conference play but in no way do I see them hosting or winning the BSC tournament. I don't believe this team would fare well in the NCAAs this year, and one @$$ kicking in Norman is enough for this season. I would love to be proved wrong but I think it's a safe bet it won't be Weber's chance to embarrass the Big Sky on the Big Stage this season.
Unlike some, I don't believe Rahe's staff has the first clue about developing bigs, nor do I by the crap about his complex offensive system and how difficult it is to learn. Maybe, just maybe, it (supposedly) takes so much time to learn and excel in his system because he has great athletes, not great basketball players. I still have hope for a respectable BSC showing and improved 2015 season but am sorely disappointed that theses "improved" recruiting classes are not yielding the "expected" results. In fact, it's easy to wonder if Rahe's teams don't have a history of underachieving. I mean he wins COY at least every other season yet gets to the NCAAs about every 4-5 years. Maybe someone can help me understand how Stu's team completely implodes on him and he responds with a very respectable showing thus far, whereas, Rahe rides the Damian express into what we're seeing so far?
Why'd you get me started, meow? I'll stop now.
Well stated. I don't have the answer but see things nearly 100% the same. In a temporary change from my pessimistic self (I like to think realistic self) I had the purple shades on over the Summer, knowing full well how much talent was being lost the past couple of seasons. This team is NOT in a good position even though I fully believe Braxton is the real deal and in a position Weber is struggling greatly with.
Your assessment of recruiting athletes and making them basketball players seems spot on with the current struggles and a very poor strategy in my opinion, however, I'm interested in competing in every game, not just the BSC. I believe Weber stays above .500 in conference play but in no way do I see them hosting or winning the BSC tournament. I don't believe this team would fare well in the NCAAs this year, and one @$$ kicking in Norman is enough for this season. I would love to be proved wrong but I think it's a safe bet it won't be Weber's chance to embarrass the Big Sky on the Big Stage this season.
Unlike some, I don't believe Rahe's staff has the first clue about developing bigs, nor do I by the crap about his complex offensive system and how difficult it is to learn. Maybe, just maybe, it (supposedly) takes so much time to learn and excel in his system because he has great athletes, not great basketball players. I still have hope for a respectable BSC showing and improved 2015 season but am sorely disappointed that theses "improved" recruiting classes are not yielding the "expected" results. In fact, it's easy to wonder if Rahe's teams don't have a history of underachieving. I mean he wins COY at least every other season yet gets to the NCAAs about every 4-5 years. Maybe someone can help me understand how Stu's team completely implodes on him and he responds with a very respectable showing thus far, whereas, Rahe rides the Damian express into what we're seeing so far?
Why'd you get me started, meow? I'll stop now.
Midmajor??
Active member
Meow!
Welcome to the forum and thank you for your candid comments. You sparked what has been otherwise a slow Tuesday. I agree with most of your comments, but differ on the athletes versus basketball players. If you're talking about Hill, I'm confused that he still doesn't have basketball instincts. Obviously Rahe loves him, but his play has been mechanical and he seems to disappear on the court! He's in his third year in the program...... I don't know what to expect from him going forward! I look at Bolomboy and feel he's trying to hard to do to much! I agree that we are subpar in the front court, but if you're looking at threads others on here disagree! We've got nothing from the JC's..
I think .500 is a little harsh. I see us third or fourth in the conference, but also wonder where the improvement will come from for next year. We are not very good right now and I'm also not sold on the new recruits coming into the program. Great athletes, but basketball raw! It's going to take sometime to get the program back on track. I'm watching some low to mid major programs really push high major teams. Weber State just doesn't have the talent this year! I'm not sure what our starting 5 will be able to do next year!
Welcome to the forum and thank you for your candid comments. You sparked what has been otherwise a slow Tuesday. I agree with most of your comments, but differ on the athletes versus basketball players. If you're talking about Hill, I'm confused that he still doesn't have basketball instincts. Obviously Rahe loves him, but his play has been mechanical and he seems to disappear on the court! He's in his third year in the program...... I don't know what to expect from him going forward! I look at Bolomboy and feel he's trying to hard to do to much! I agree that we are subpar in the front court, but if you're looking at threads others on here disagree! We've got nothing from the JC's..
I think .500 is a little harsh. I see us third or fourth in the conference, but also wonder where the improvement will come from for next year. We are not very good right now and I'm also not sold on the new recruits coming into the program. Great athletes, but basketball raw! It's going to take sometime to get the program back on track. I'm watching some low to mid major programs really push high major teams. Weber State just doesn't have the talent this year! I'm not sure what our starting 5 will be able to do next year!
sacstateman
Active member
WOW........someone send the EMT's to oldrunners place.....surely he will need help after someone says that HE and the coaches can't turn a 3 star into a 4 or a 2 into a 3 or (God forbid) a 4 star into the next Lebron James.. Cats meow you have now crossed the line from being a Weber fan and being rational....may God have mercy on your soul.....
Cats meow! said:
Meow, you'll see! The Cats seem to come alive in conference play! I know I drink a lot of Kool Aid, but I'm excited about the future. Do I agree with everything that Coach Rahe is doing? No, but I think we have enough talent to compete now and next year! I do agree that we need Basketball players and have to break away from the best athlete available strategy. That works in Football, but players need to be more skilled in basketball!
Welcome to the forum, emotions play into this board a lot, but your perspective was fresh and needed. Except for the first half of the Utah State game we've not been very good on the court! I also trust that Rahe knew we wouldn't be good this year, but no excuse for next season. We need to get off the JC kick and build from within. I'm ok with moving kids out that don't fit into the program, but we seem to be doing it a lot. Seems like a miss that we don't have viable candidates in the front court to support Joel. I think it's funny that others do not seem to think it's an issue that we're getting killed inside!
oldrunner
Active member
My personal observations on the 'star' rating system is that it is really just like someone's opinion. Opinions, including mine, are like arm pits. Everyone has a couple of them, but they all stink.
Getting a 3 star rating from Nike means that a player has attended a Nike camp or played in a Nike sponsored tournament, and had a reasonably good showing. Those who didn't attend or had a mediocre performance get a 2 star rating. There may be a little more that goes into it, but not much. That is why a Damian Lillard comes out as a 2 star and is now kicking butt on all of the 5 stars of his class. All players develop over time. Some more than others.
Coaches do their best, but recruiting is still a crap shoot. At our level, coaches are trying to predict how a player will develop over time, and in their program. There are no sure bets. Do some players develop faster and more than expected? Sure, and some less so or not at all.
We all hope that our 2 stars turn out to be like Lillard.
Getting a 3 star rating from Nike means that a player has attended a Nike camp or played in a Nike sponsored tournament, and had a reasonably good showing. Those who didn't attend or had a mediocre performance get a 2 star rating. There may be a little more that goes into it, but not much. That is why a Damian Lillard comes out as a 2 star and is now kicking butt on all of the 5 stars of his class. All players develop over time. Some more than others.
Coaches do their best, but recruiting is still a crap shoot. At our level, coaches are trying to predict how a player will develop over time, and in their program. There are no sure bets. Do some players develop faster and more than expected? Sure, and some less so or not at all.
We all hope that our 2 stars turn out to be like Lillard.
Olds! You're making up your definition of ratings! If you look at verbal commits there are 3 strong rating agencies. Espn, rivals and scouts and they only rank players they see on the court!! They missed on Lilliard, but they are right more than they are wrong! If a kid is 3 or above its because they've showed the ability to play at a high level! That's not saying that 2's can't develop into a higher ranking, but you're nuts if you really want more 2's than 3,4 or 5's!
The rankings are legit and is a great way for schools to get a perspective on a players talent level! BTW.... Weber has had one of the higher aggregate rankings in the big sky for many years! One difficult thing to measure is a players heart! Only way to measure is competition for your team!
One of the major consideration in rankings is skill level! Lilliards level improved due to hardwork at weber! Some of our current players are great athletes, but still learning on the court! Their instincts are not where they need to be! You might want to focus how to improve our players versus hating on the system due to our inability to land more 3,4's and 5's!
The rankings are legit and is a great way for schools to get a perspective on a players talent level! BTW.... Weber has had one of the higher aggregate rankings in the big sky for many years! One difficult thing to measure is a players heart! Only way to measure is competition for your team!
One of the major consideration in rankings is skill level! Lilliards level improved due to hardwork at weber! Some of our current players are great athletes, but still learning on the court! Their instincts are not where they need to be! You might want to focus how to improve our players versus hating on the system due to our inability to land more 3,4's and 5's!
Webergrad02
Active member
Why land more 3,4 or 5's when we can just go out and find quality JC kids like we did last year. Redshirting the two 3 star kids you landed also helps. Unfortunately, I am still waiting to see Scotty Bamforth version 2.0 and the 2nd coming of Mook Otis. So far we have gotten a streaky shooter that doesn't play well in the system and a 6'3 power forward that turns the ball over and can't make a foul shot. I was impressed that he actually got the dunk to go down last game.
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about EWU? Thanks for derailing us Meow and of course Sacstateman came to fan the flames.
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about EWU? Thanks for derailing us Meow and of course Sacstateman came to fan the flames.
webergrad02 said:
I can't disagree with you. Hard to not support Rahe with all his success, but it's hard to feel comfortable with our future right now.
In terms of EWU, I hope we can be competitive, but right now, I'm thinking if we keep the margin under double digits that we might be able to steal one! Haven't seen the line from Vegas!
SWeberCat02
Active member
Line is EWU -10Mycats said:
UtahPirate
Active member
Cats meow! said:
Meow, welcome to the board. All opinions -- and good backing of those opinions -- are what make message boards worth coming to. This one continues to get better and you're viewpoint is appreciated. However.... :-D
First, let me put on the page why this "can't develop bigs" is pure nonsense. One of the first things that Rahe did when he got a chance to fully recruit was bring in Panos, Morris and Mahoney after he did his best to patch together a roster for his first year. I watched Panos get better every year until he had a very solid senior year averaging in double figures and playing hard nosed defense. He was overlooked by all the in-state schools, but showed progression every year, finally playing in Greece for several years professionally. Morris was recruited the same year and RS as a freshman. I had my doubts with him as he didn't have the best hands, but 2010-11 he had a great senior year averaging in double figures and filling up the middle well. Mahoney was the complementary piece to those two -- served a mission so he was here for awhile. One of my favorite players, he was hard-nosed, hardly shot, couldn't jump, played interior defense like a madman, and rebounded by bodying out the competition. Man, I loved watching that kid play the role he was given -- and we got everything out of him that he was able to give. Which of those three didn't get better each and every year?
Next came the Tresnak, Hayek and Fulton. Fulton looked to be a really solid player but injuries robbed him of a good career here. Tresnak? Geez, did you naysayers watch him progress from his freshman season until last year? He got so much better each season. He didn't have huge talent, but do you really think he could have gotten much more out of his talent than he did last year? He was a stud! If you talk about coaching a player to reach their ceiling, Tresnak gave us everything he had! Hayek? Perhaps he is the one recruiting mis-fire in the bunch, and that has left us a little short this year. But he's also had knees that have kept him from reaching his full potential. So let's throw in Bolomboy. Raw and talented as a freshman, he's added to his game each year. He's been hurt this year by having to play the 5, which is not his best position, but his progression has been incrementally impressive. I'm assuming we'll see even more from him as the year goes on and next year as well. Still lots of upside to his game and he is steadily climbing towards it.
Now, about this idea that this team has no talent. Wow! Seriously? They are loaded with talent! What they don't have is experience and game savvy. That takes time. Senglin was Freshman of the Year in the conference last year. I think he's shouldered too much trying to lead this year, but he's getting there. The kid has hit two game winners this year, which I don't think people appreciate. Only special players can take the ball with time running out, and then "BANG" win a game for you. The Y fans are still waiting for their All-American Haws to hit one game winner (in his career!) -- instead he folds! Give Senglin a little more time, we're all going to remember him as a Wildcat great before he's through.
Gittens? I closed my eyes and shook my head when he took a 3 all last year and at the start of this year. Well, viola, right before our eyes he's turned into a really good 3-point shooter hitting for around 55% of his 3's this year. And if those little push-jumpers he takes start falling...
Richardson? I know he's young. I know he hasn't played much. But that tall, long body! And what a shooting stroke. He'll only get better as he gains confidence and as this offense comes together, he'll make a big scoring difference. He just needs some more time. I'm also a fan of Hunter who "sees" the floor -- which I believe is an innate talent that is hard to teach. He's made some wonderful passes this year that were unexpected. He many not start for awhile, but he'll contribute more soon. And with comfort will come some more scoring.
When this team gets out and runs, we are very good! When we are forced into our half-court sets, we're still learning. When we play against a zone, we're awful. Those last two will get better with time. But when we run you can see the athleticism and talent -- when we set, you can see the youth and inexperience.
One more observation. Our Cats sit at #2 in FT shooting percentage this year. That's impressive for such a young team. I think it is a reflection on the teams ability to shoot the ball -- and as they become more comfortable, I think we'll see more shots drop. As a group, they are better shooters than we've seen.
Meow, your call is for us to concentrate on talent for next year. That's is already done:
http://www.weberstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=99544&SPID=3470&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=8600&ATCLID=209771333" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some interesting kids on that list -- with some interesting sizes and scoring stats. Add in Braxton and Jefferson with a year to learn the system and four years to play, and I can see a plan that is coming together. They have been a bit painful to watch at times (OK, in OK, downright embarrassing), but I see the growth. I see more chemistry. I see the youth. But Lordy be, I sure see the talent!
No doubt this is a building year. But the experience key players are getting this year will go a long ways into adding to what I think will be a very successful future.
Sorry this is so long! Pass the Purple Stuff...
Cats meow!
Active member
Pirate,
Thanks for your thoughts! Hoping your right about the talent levels! The great thing about sports is it'll play out over the season! It all starts tomorrow.
I have to admit that I think it's going to be a difficult season, but in all honesty I haven't been watching other BSC members. If there are teams that look as bad as we've looked this season, then the Championship might be within our reach.
It doesn't matter, I'm a weber fan and I'll root for them until the end. Maybe you can send me some of that Kool aid,
Thanks for your thoughts! Hoping your right about the talent levels! The great thing about sports is it'll play out over the season! It all starts tomorrow.
I have to admit that I think it's going to be a difficult season, but in all honesty I haven't been watching other BSC members. If there are teams that look as bad as we've looked this season, then the Championship might be within our reach.
It doesn't matter, I'm a weber fan and I'll root for them until the end. Maybe you can send me some of that Kool aid,
Potomac Griz1
Active member
Good luck today! Wouldn't mind seeing EWU knocked down a couple pegs now that conference season has began. Facepalmed so hard when they were talking about how a win over EWU was going to be another team's "signature win" for the season. I seriously doubt any D1 team out there from a better conference counts a win over a Big Sky opponent as a signature win 
Hope you guys pick up the W today!
Hope you guys pick up the W today!
Webergrad02
Active member
Hajek is doing much better than Bolomboy in guarding Jois. I think we have a real chance in the second half. We need a few others to step up offensively. Richardson is really making them pay. HE IS MONEY TODAY!
