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Week 9 - Sac State at Idaho State

Andy Thompson is not a Head Coach at this level and Fresques is not a O coordinator. This is Jody Sears type football. Just dumb plays all over the place.

At this level you need to have a dynamic play caller and Mark Orr needs to move quickly this offseason.

These guys want to move up a level, build a new stadium, and they can’t even sustain success through the first coaching change? Orr and the President can’t sit around on this.

I’m not going back to shitty football with this program. Not another dime.
 
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27-30 Hornet loss in overtime. This was a game that should have been won. A lot of inflection points in the game that could be pointed at as the cause, but ultimately it was lack of execution that cost the Hornets the game.

The refs had a big hand in this loss, but anyone who follows the Big Sky in any sport knows that the refs are awful and this should be expected. The Hornets have to be good enough to overcome blown calls, unfortunately we are no longer good enough to do so. The blown simultaneous catch touchdown that was ruled a pick, the blatant hold on Gipson in the endzone on the final pass in regulation that was missed, the pass interference call on the uncatchable pass on the ISU overtime possession…there were probably others but those were the big ones that stick in my mind. Either way, the Hornets were in a position to overcome most of those blown/missed calls and couldn’t get it done.

Offensively the game plan was simple and it started off great. Pound the ball against a weak defense and score points. Elijah Tau-Tolliver (11 car, 100 yds, 1 TD, 1 rec 16 yds) was on pace for a monster game until he got injured late in the 1st half. Curron Borders (18 car, 145 yds, 3 rec, 20 yds) stepped up and had a good game, unfortunately he was stripped of the ball at the goal line and the Hornets had another touchdown come off the board. Once the ISU defense adjusted, the Hornets had to go to the air more and the execution wasn’t there. Carson Conklin (24/40, 270 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT) wasn’t particularly sharp as he continues to bail from a solid pocket and throw away plays with a needless scramble. To his credit, he led two strong drives late in the game and put this offense in a position to win the game. Danny Scudero (5 rec, 79 yds) was the leading receiver, but he dropped a pass late in the game that would have set the Hornets up in the red zone. Jared Gipson (5 rec, 65 yds, 1 TD) had a good score at the end of the 1st half.

Defensively the Hornets did enough. This loss isn’t on this side of the ball. The Hornet defense held a high flying ISU offense to 17 points in regulation. That should have been enough for a win. On top of that, the Hornets made a critical goal line stop in the 4th quarter in which an ISU touchdown ends the game. The defense also forced 2 turnovers (none of which were cashed in for points) and got 2 stops on the same final drive to even give the Hornets a chance at the tie/win in regulation. Yes they struggled with tackling at times, and yes they got torched through the air, but this defense was never going to shut down ISU’s passing attack. The Hornets just had to limit the damage and get some stops and they did that.

Special teams had another clanker of a game. A missed field goal early and another blown situational awareness in which an obvious fake punt was coming mires what was otherwise a solid game. Coach LaPan needs to really get it together with the situational awareness issue.

Here are my takeaways from the game:
  • I hated when Troy would roll the dice instead of taking points, and I hate it when Coach Thompson does it. Points come at a premium in the D1 game and passing up a high percentage field goal was one of the many plays that cost this team the game, especially against a team that was being dominated up front. Instead of taking a field goal, a horrendous slow developing play is called and a sack fumble scoop and score happens instead. 10 point swing just like that. Inexcusable.
  • Play calling was meh. Coach Fresques was late to make 2nd half adjustments, but overall the play calling wasn’t the reason for the loss, lack of execution on the field was. Bobby struggles to make adjustments when opposing defenses take away the run. It shouldn’t take a whole quarter to figure it out.
  • Offensive line had its struggles in pass protection, but for the most part a pocket was there on most plays. Conklin throws away too many plays by bailing out from the pocket at the first inkling of pressure. Step up into the pocket and make a throw…or scramble for a handful of yards.
  • The notable execution issues mentioned above are coming from younger players. Conklin, Borders, and Scudero are all redshirt freshmen, these players will take some lumps now but it will pay dividends in the long term.
With the season mathematically over and four games remaining on the slate, I would hope the coaches swarm the field with freshman and younger players to start building for next season and beyond. I’ve felt like this became a development season the moment KB got hurt/quit but was hoping the Hornets would find a way to stay in the playoff picture, we’ve just arrived at the brutal realization of this coming to fruition.

Regarding the calls for coaches heads on a pike…eh, I don’t think we are there yet. I would expect some changes to the staff, but a wholesale reset with the head/associate coaches is still a bit far fetched for me to get on board with at this time.

Stingers Up!

Highlights
 
We should have won this game in the 1st half!

So many mistakes. Coaches didn’t have the team prepared.

The fake punt was called by Jason Ross saying it’s same play Idaho state did last week.
Our special teams coach must not have done his research to see that and alert his players.

The mental mistakes, fumbles, play calling is coaching responsibility.

I’ve been saying it for while now, but some members here remain stubborn by saying crap like “Thompson has as many postseason wins as Taylor”. Really?

You can see a gigantic difference in preparation and focus between this current team and last seasons team when compared to the teams spanning 2019-2022.

They may not have won every game, and even dropped some games they shouldn’t have but they rarely looked as unprepared and undisciplined as they do now.

As I’ve also said several times now, look no further than conference record under the current HC compared to the last HC. Taylor has his own flaws, but his teams were 23-1 in conference play over e seasons. Only losing to a very good Weber State team.

Meanwhile Thompson has already lost 7 BSC games in half the time. And losing to the likes of NAU and Idaho State. ISU is mediocre to bad team (and so is Sac State now, unfortunately).

That wasn’t happening under Taylor, despite whatever play calling or strategic mistakes he was prone to.

Taylor is long gone and not coming back (and not faring so well at Stanford, as I predicted). I get all that. But there was a reason Andy Thompson coached so long in the Big Sky w/o landing a HC gig. Because he’s not HC material. They chose the wrong guy. I’m not even sure he’s a good defensive coordinator anymore, either.

I realize KR and BF are also listed as “associate head coaches’, but let’s be real. The buck stops with Thompson and he has final say.

The team was super fortunate to even qualify for the postseason last season, and some even say “undeserving”. But let’s be real again, they were riding out the wave of what Taylor started. And that wave has crashed hard this season.

Of the three (Thompson, Richardson, Fresques), only KR has maintained what he’d been doing under Taylor and doesn’t look inept. When healthy, the o-line has looked very good — even against FBS competition — and have run the ball well with Tau-Tolliver.

But pretty much every other positional group has regressed. The defense has looked good at times, but becomes a sieve at a moments notice. That didn’t happen so much in years past.

Also, WTH has happened to our receivers group? That also used to be a major strength.

IMO, only the line and backs (when healthy) are pulling their weight. Conklin has been hit and miss, but you can see the talent and potential is there. What’s lacking is the proper coaching — preparation, development, and execution,

IDK what the answer is. I just know this current staff, as constituted, ain’t it.

The Hornets may not have the most talent in the conference, but they’ve got enough talent not to be 3-5 overall and 1-3 in conference play — especially against the bottom half of the Big Sky.

NAU, EWU and IDST have combined for an overall record of 10-15 and 5-8 in conference play. Without their combined 3 wins over the Hornets, they are 7-15 overall and 2-8 in conference. These are NOT good teams.

Wake up people! This is a DRASTIC slide in year 2 of the new regime. Last season’s success was CLEARLY a byproduct of what had been build beforehand. The more distance we get from the end of 2022, the more it is showing.

We’ve gone from 9-4, 9-3, 12-1 to 8-5 and now, best case, 6-6 should they pull of a miracle and win 3 of their final 4.

My best guess, however, says they lose 3 of their final 4 and finish 4-8.

Whatever the final record is — 6-6, 5-7, 4-8, 3-9 — it’s a complete disaster of a season considering the direction this program had been trending in previously AND considering the talent level currently on the roster.

Completely unacceptable.
 
The difference between last season and this season is we had KB for more than 1.5 games. Saying the Hornets were undeserving of the postseason in '23 is nonsense as proven by the road win at UND. The Hornets have since turned the page at the QB position and are going through some growing pains. I would love to have our redshirt freshman QB come in and dominate from the jump, but that is not a realistic expectation.

And yes, the buck stops with Coach Thompson, no one is denying that. I trust he will make whatever changes he deems necessary at the end of the season.
 
  • I hated when Troy would roll the dice instead of taking points, and I hate it when Coach Thompson does it.

Huge difference is, one of those coaches was 30-8 and 23-1 in conference play. The other is about to post the most disastrous season since the Jody Sears era.

You can hate the tactic all you want, but one of the two coaches still managed to win games despite it. Lots of games. And almost never lost in conference. And NEVER lost to the bottom tier of the Big Sky.

Of the 3 postseason losses under Taylor, two of them occurred with Thompson’s defenses surrendering 42 (Austin Peay) and 59 (UIW) points respectively. You know, the same dude currently running (and torpedoing) the program, along with the current inept OC.

I’m not exactly sure what AT can do to try to fix things at this point, other than to demoting himself and Bobby Fresques.
 
The difference between last season and this season is we had KB for more than 1.5 games. Saying the Hornets were undeserving of the postseason in '23 is nonsense as proven by the road win at UND.

No, the difference is coaching and preparation. How you cannot recognize it escapes me.

They were still riding high off the previous 12-1 season. Historically, year 2 or year 3 is more so when you start to see the fall off of a new staff taking over (one that cannot cut the mustard and maintain). And that’s exactly what we’re seeing in year 2, unfortunately.

Secondly, I’m not the one saying that the Hornets were undeserving last season. Just acknowledging that was the opinion held by many at the time (especially since UCD beat Sac State and held a better conference record).

Regardless, the win at UND doesn’t in any way prove that they were deserving. I mean, had UCD received the birth rather than the Hornets and also beaten UND would that have proved they were deserving of it over Sac State or another team? Nope.

Citing that as evidence is — to use your own words against you — “nonsense”.
 
No, not kidding. I took his comment as "good job kid, now let's go get another". Not really getting how his comment is getting spun into this deep narrative about Coach Fresques not happy or content with Conklin's performance.
SD...couldn't agree more with your position.
 
No, the difference is coaching and preparation. How you cannot recognize it escapes me.

They were still riding high off the previous 12-1 season. Historically, year 2 or year 3 is more so when you start to see the fall off of a new staff taking over (one that cannot cut the mustard and maintain). And that’s exactly what we’re seeing in year 2, unfortunately.

Secondly, I’m not the one saying that the Hornets were undeserving last season. Just acknowledging that was the opinion held by many at the time (especially since UCD beat Sac State and held a better conference record).

Regardless, the win at UND doesn’t in any way prove that they were deserving. I mean, had UCD received the birth rather than the Hornets and also beaten UND would that have proved they were deserving of it over Sac State or another team? Nope.

Citing that as evidence is — to use your own words against you — “nonsense”.
What escapes me is why you go to the trouble to post your rants when no one takes you seriously because you lie and steal from other members on this site.
 
No, the difference is coaching and preparation. How you cannot recognize it escapes me.

They were still riding high off the previous 12-1 season. Historically, year 2 or year 3 is more so when you start to see the fall off of a new staff taking over (one that cannot cut the mustard and maintain). And that’s exactly what we’re seeing in year 2, unfortunately.

Secondly, I’m not the one saying that the Hornets were undeserving last season. Just acknowledging that was the opinion held by many at the time (especially since UCD beat Sac State and held a better conference record).

Regardless, the win at UND doesn’t in any way prove that they were deserving. I mean, had UCD received the birth rather than the Hornets and also beaten UND would that have proved they were deserving of it over Sac State or another team? Nope.

Citing that as evidence is — to use your own words against you — “nonsense”.
The problem with your take is that you are viewing it in a vacuum. Yes, that 2022 season was magical, yes we all wanted/hoped we'd rip through another half dozen BSC titles and playoff runs following that season. The problem with your checkers mindset is that you are not taking into account the roster turnover that happens EVERY YEAR and we also had a MAJOR change in the coaching staff from '22 to '23 with the brain trust leaving to Stanford for a huge bag. Expecting the same outcome with those variables in play is not realistic. We've gone through the roster changes from '22 to '23 so I'm not going to spell that out again.

Let's have a little thought experiment for all the checkers playing folks calling for a whole sale coaching staff change for 2025. Here are the parameters you want:
  • Coach Thompson gone
  • Coach Fresques gone
  • Strength and conditioning coach gone
I'd like one of the posters with the checkers mindset to counter with the likely fallout from the moves above, you folks are clearly not taking into account the way college football free agency is working these days and the devastation that will ensue:
  • The entire defensive coaching staff likely bails, thereby putting all those talented defensive players in the portal. Coach Paulson has done a solid job with the players on the defensive line. Make no mistake, he's here because of Andy.
  • Coach Valeria is a recruiting monster. Think he sticks around? Maybe, maybe not. If not, you think he's not portaling with any of his highly touted talent into a new job? Don't think this is a thing? How do you think we landed stud LB Leota in free agency? We hired his LB coach.
  • With Fresques out, does Coach Richardson stick around? Maybe, maybe not. Both these guys could land any HS gig in the region they want.
  • No Fresques probably means our burgeoning redshirt freshman QB hits the portal...who is probably going to get a major payday with another solid season here anyways. So that would mean a total reset on offense. Maybe Coach Thompson (or the new HC) hires an OC and he brings a QB with him...or maybe not.
  • No Richardson means we probably have some of our young offensive line talent hit the portal. Solid offensive line play has been the backbone of Hornet success since 2019. Is it worth taking a reset at this position?
  • If those coaching moves happen, what other up and coming young offensive players stick around? Why would they?
  • Someone is probably going to throw ETT a bag his way this offseason, he might be gone regardless of what happens. I hope that isn't the case but this is the game these days.
I didn't touch on the last bullet because I think Coach Thompson needs to make a change there. There has been a litany of injuries since Deatrick left with Troy, clearly the guy in charge of strength and conditioning is letting these players down. I also anticipate some of the other assistant coaches moving either willfully or Andy making a change. I didn't see a need to go to far into the weeds on those as there is a lot of turnover year in and year out with position coaches.

So to recap my rant: a new HC is obviously a reset on the whole program. A new OC means a full reset on the offensive side of the ball. Either move would have significant impacts to the roster. It's disappointing that we've lost games that we should have won, but I don't think the results garner wholesale changes at this point given our projected starting QB quit on this team after 2 games. That said, if we don't return to our winning ways in '25 then all bets are off.
 
The problem with your take is that you are viewing it in a vacuum. Yes, that 2022 season was magical, yes we all wanted/hoped we'd rip through another half dozen BSC titles and playoff runs following that season. The problem with your checkers mindset is that you are not taking into account the roster turnover that happens EVERY YEAR and we also had a MAJOR change in the coaching staff from '22 to '23 with the brain trust leaving to Stanford for a huge bag. Expecting the same outcome with those variables in play is not realistic. We've gone through the roster changes from '22 to '23 so I'm not going to spell that out again.

Let's have a little thought experiment for all the checkers playing folks calling for a whole sale coaching staff change for 2025. Here are the parameters you want:
  • Coach Thompson gone
  • Coach Fresques gone
  • Strength and conditioning coach gone
I'd like one of the posters with the checkers mindset to counter with the likely fallout from the moves above, you folks are clearly not taking into account the way college football free agency is working these days and the devastation that will ensue:
  • The entire defensive coaching staff likely bails, thereby putting all those talented defensive players in the portal. Coach Paulson has done a solid job with the players on the defensive line. Make no mistake, he's here because of Andy.
  • Coach Valeria is a recruiting monster. Think he sticks around? Maybe, maybe not. If not, you think he's not portaling with any of his highly touted talent into a new job? Don't think this is a thing? How do you think we landed stud LB Leota in free agency? We hired his LB coach.
  • With Fresques out, does Coach Richardson stick around? Maybe, maybe not. Both these guys could land any HS gig in the region they want.
  • No Fresques probably means our burgeoning redshirt freshman QB hits the portal...who is probably going to get a major payday with another solid season here anyways. So that would mean a total reset on offense. Maybe Coach Thompson (or the new HC) hires an OC and he brings a QB with him...or maybe not.
  • No Richardson means we probably have some of our young offensive line talent hit the portal. Solid offensive line play has been the backbone of Hornet success since 2019. Is it worth taking a reset at this position?
  • If those coaching moves happen, what other up and coming young offensive players stick around? Why would they?
  • Someone is probably going to throw ETT a bag his way this offseason, he might be gone regardless of what happens. I hope that isn't the case but this is the game these days.
I didn't touch on the last bullet because I think Coach Thompson needs to make a change there. There has been a litany of injuries since Deatrick left with Troy, clearly the guy in charge of strength and conditioning is letting these players down. I also anticipate some of the other assistant coaches moving either willfully or Andy making a change. I didn't see a need to go to far into the weeds on those as there is a lot of turnover year in and year out with position coaches.

So to recap my rant: a new HC is obviously a reset on the whole program. A new OC means a full reset on the offensive side of the ball. Either move would have significant impacts to the roster. It's disappointing that we've lost games that we should have won, but I don't think the results garner wholesale changes at this point given our projected starting QB quit on this team after 2 games. That said, if we don't return to our winning ways in '25 then all bets are off.

Perfectly said 👏
 
The difference between last season and this season is we had KB for more than 1.5 games. Saying the Hornets were undeserving of the postseason in '23 is nonsense as proven by the road win at UND. The Hornets have since turned the page at the QB position and are going through some growing pains. I would love to have our redshirt freshman QB come in and dominate from the jump, but that is not a realistic expectation.

And yes, the buck stops with Coach Thompson, no one is denying that. I trust he will make whatever changes he deems necessary at the end of the season.
From last season we learned KB strengths at QB. Beautiful instincts when to scramble. Arm was good for certain range. Lacking some finesse throws etc, but I loved his heart,

The thing we know is KB weakness is that he’s fragile. Maybe he needed to slide more rather than trying for extra few yards?

But as a HC / OC / QB Coach I would know I need more depth than KB & Conk knowing high likelihood that’ KB would get hurt,

Should have preserved KB more w 2 QB system,

These are all decisions made by coaching staff. This is the result of those choices. A burnt 🔥 season during a time we are trying to get an FBS invite.

Coaches clearly took the offseason for vacations. 🏝️

Face Planted our Hornets. Again I’m hoping they finish this season on a win streak.

Even if they end up 6-6. Some people need to lose jobs to send a message this isn’t JC football.

Agree- Kris Richardson is solid! I’d keep him and RB Coach on staff.

If I were SD I’d be looking around for talent
 
Perfectly said 👏
Very True… Those are all solid possibilities that could happen.
San Jose St made some changes and they improved. We tossed Jody Sears and we improved.
It’s a major decision and if I were AD Orr I’d make educated decisions on potential new coaches. Those coaches might have a rockstar crew that would follow them just like bringing coach Troy Taylor did,
If Coach Thompson makes some meaningful adjustments and brings in talented new coach (es) into a few spots we shouldn’t miss a beat.
What we don’t know is how our team morale is and if they have lost confidence in the staff and they are all going to portal out anyways?

Lots of unknowns. The only known thing is that our record is stinking worse each week.

HC needs to be the man and make adjustments, if he fails to make some changes and stays HC another season. He better win or expect to be fired.

That’s how I see it. Not a full change of staff. But we need some changes. 100% need new OC, New Strength / conditioning.

KR is solid.
Cherokee is good recruiter
RB coach is solid.
HC Thompson I wouldn’t fire him unless I found a rockstar HC wanting to take over the Hornets! Then I’d offer him DC.
 
From last season we learned KB strengths at QB. Beautiful instincts when to scramble. Arm was good for certain range. Lacking some finesse throws etc, but I loved his heart,

The thing we know is KB weakness is that he’s fragile. Maybe he needed to slide more rather than trying for extra few yards?

But as a HC / OC / QB Coach I would know I need more depth than KB & Conk knowing high likelihood that’ KB would get hurt,

Should have preserved KB more w 2 QB system,

These are all decisions made by coaching staff. This is the result of those choices. A burnt 🔥 season during a time we are trying to get an FBS invite.

Coaches clearly took the offseason for vacations. 🏝️

Face Planted our Hornets. Again I’m hoping they finish this season on a win streak.

Even if they end up 6-6. Some people need to lose jobs to send a message this isn’t JC football.

Agree- Kris Richardson is solid! I’d keep him and RB Coach on staff.

If I were SD I’d be looking around for talent
I posted in the other thread my thoughts about the KB/Camp/Conklin situation. I'm sure it could have been managed better but it was clear Fresques is ride or die with Conklin...and to be honest, at this point it is looking like the right move over the long term.

I think we were all hoping we'd see a 2 QB system with KB & Conklin, but we are also assuming both QBs would buy into it. Perhaps that was not the case hence why KB quit.
 
Very True… Those are all solid possibilities that could happen.
San Jose St made some changes and they improved. We tossed Jody Sears and we improved.
It’s a major decision and if I were AD Orr I’d make educated decisions on potential new coaches. Those coaches might have a rockstar crew that would follow them just like bringing coach Troy Taylor did,
If Coach Thompson makes some meaningful adjustments and brings in talented new coach (es) into a few spots we shouldn’t miss a beat.
What we don’t know is how our team morale is and if they have lost confidence in the staff and they are all going to portal out anyways?

Lots of unknowns. The only known thing is that our record is stinking worse each week.

HC needs to be the man and make adjustments, if he fails to make some changes and stays HC another season. He better win or expect to be fired.

That’s how I see it. Not a full change of staff. But we need some changes. 100% need new OC, New Strength / conditioning.

KR is solid.
Cherokee is good recruiter
RB coach is solid.
HC Thompson I wouldn’t fire him unless I found a rockstar HC wanting to take over the Hornets! Then I’d offer him DC.
Agree with everything here but I think Fresques gets another year...barring a complete implosion on the offensive side of the ball these last 4 games.
 
Any news on Elijah Tau-Tolliver, I have been watching him all year, I really hate seeing a guy like that go down in a game.
 

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