What is wrong with the D?

[LDopaPDX]

I'm new to the board so I apologize if this is a topic that has been discussed already. I asked in another thread, but am interested in knowing what everyone's thoughts are on what the problems are with our defense? Is it just youth? Personnel? Scheme? Attitude? Effort? Too many injuries, or all of the above? Secondly, what could the coaches be doing differently to improve, or is are there too many problems with the D to assume that any improvement can be made? We should win quite a few more games but come playoff time I don't see this team going that far with a defense that has been playing so poorly up until now.

I think we'd all like to know the answer to this question. Like you said, it's probably a combination of a lot of things.

One thing I'd throw out is that they rotate so many guys on defense that they almost never put the best 11 on the field. We're one of the only teams I know who routinely rotates cornerbacks. One thing I noticed when we became successful yesterday and started shutting Sac State down, we were only rotating DL. Hopefully yesterday's second half is a sign of improvement, but we won't really know for a couple of weeks.

 

[EWURanger]

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I think a lot of it has to do with what Dopa said below:

One thing I'd throw out is that they rotate so many guys on defense that they almost never put the best 11 on the field. We're one of the only teams I know who routinely rotates cornerbacks. One thing I noticed when we became successful yesterday and started shutting Sac State down, we were only rotating DL. Hopefully yesterday's second half is a sign of improvement, but we won't really know for a couple of weeks.

We seem to lack an identity, and I think that has to do with the fact that we have so many different young guys playing. The conundrum here is that our defense is so young that you almost have to play a ton of guys just to be able to build the kind of experience and depth that we're going to need the next few years. The flip side of that is that outside of LB and maybe Safety, there aren't a lot of guys that are playing the majority of a game to where they're building chemistry with the players around them.

The second thing that I have noticed is that we have numerous impact players on offense, but very few, if any, on defense. Eastern has almost always been an offensive-minded program, but when you look back to the last truly great team we had (2010), the difference was the defense. We had a least one impact-type player at every level on the D (I.E. guys that are capable of changing a game with one play). That 2010 defense had at least one "great" player at every position:

DT - Renard Williams
DE - Jerry Ceja
LB - JC Sherritt and Zack Johnson
CB - Jesse Hoffman
S - Matt Johnson

This is not to say that we don't have guys that aren't capable of being impact type players along the away, but this defense is so young...we don't have anyone who's there yet.

It's kind of depressing to think about how much our defense has regressed since 2010. We've had some great individual players (McCarthy, Pulu, Hamlin) the past few years, but not a collective group of players playing as high of a level as 2010. Each year our D has been consistently worse since then. Can anyone imagine anyone putting up 50+ points on that 2010 defense? I can't either.

Lastly, our defense is all about not giving up the big play, and is largely predicated on creating TO's. We're not creating any. The recipe to beat EWU seems to just be to pound away on us on the ground and keep our offense off of the field. It's hard to create TO's when every team is doing the same thing to try and beat us. Prior to last night's game we were dead last in run defense, and I don't expect that stat line changed much after it. We need run-stoppers.

 

[eaglemachine]

I'm not sure if the criticism is totally warranted at this point in the season. Consider who we have played in the first three games, all very run heavy teams. Then look at yesterday's game. We held them to 136 yards on the ground, most of which were in the first half and totally shut them down in the second.

The defense is going to improve as the season progresses. Giving up a lot of yards to CPSLO is a given, but after that the best rushing attack we will face won't be until the season finale when we play Portland St.

 

[Seattle Eagle]

Youth, and personnel. I don't think we have the athleticism yet to run this system.

 

[eaglesfootball]

run stopping has to improve. what I don't understand is how our defensive line gets pushed around when we have the biggest interior line that I've ever seen here.

Sommer 6'5 310
Tiuli 6'4 315
Sarte 6'1 290
Levao 6'3 290
Lino 6'3 265

it would be one thing if we had 250 pound defensive tackles running around. what gives?

 

[sammamisheag]

Fact is, it's very difficult with the FCS limit of scholarships at 63 (FBS is 85) to have as talented players on both sides of the ball.

The past three years EWU has been lights out on offense and have been lit up on D. You can make the argument the current staff if much better at coaching up offensive than defensive players. You can also make the argument that EWU is a much more desirable destination for offensive players vs defensive.

Having said this EWU is a Top 10 program year in and year out with Coach BB running the show. After 2010 the expectation every year since is to get back to the national champ game which is a GREAT problem to have.

In terms of player rotations, IMHO the coaches are trying to figure out what they have, developing players with the most upside, and keeping injuries to a minimum by limiting snaps to certain players.

Coming into this year my expectation was a win or two in the playoffs and 2016 having the potential to win it all.

 

[ewueagle2010]

Fact is, it's very difficult with the FCS limit of scholarships at 63 (FBS is 85) to have as talented players on both sides of the ball.

The past three years EWU has been lights out on offense and have been lit up on D. You can make the argument the current staff if much better at coaching up offensive than defensive players. You can also make the argument that EWU is a much more desirable destination for offensive players vs defensive.

Having said this EWU is a Top 10 program year in and year out with Coach BB running the show. After 2010 the expectation every year since is to get back to the national champ game which is a GREAT problem to have.

In terms of player rotations, IMHO the coaches are trying to figure out what they have, developing players with the most upside, and keeping injuries to a minimum by limiting snaps to certain players.

Coming into this year my expectation was a win or two in the playoffs and 2016 having the potential to win it all.

I think I have to agree with you. This opinion seems to make the most sense because I believe that Baldwin and staff are far too good of coaches not too understand this. Our D is very young, and pretty banged up, as it was last season.

Coming into this season, I felt the exact same expectations you just mentioned. Good this year, with the potential for next season to be special. However, the "fan" in me says we're capable to win every year.

 

[LDopaPDX]

Fact is, it's very difficult with the FCS limit of scholarships at 63 (FBS is 85) to have as talented players on both sides of the ball.

The past three years EWU has been lights out on offense and have been lit up on D. You can make the argument the current staff if much better at coaching up offensive than defensive players. You can also make the argument that EWU is a much more desirable destination for offensive players vs defensive.

Having said this EWU is a Top 10 program year in and year out with Coach BB running the show. After 2010 the expectation every year since is to get back to the national champ game which is a GREAT problem to have.

In terms of player rotations, IMHO the coaches are trying to figure out what they have, developing players with the most upside, and keeping injuries to a minimum by limiting snaps to certain players.

Coming into this year my expectation was a win or two in the playoffs and 2016 having the potential to win it all.

I think I have to agree with you. This opinion seems to make the most sense because I believe that Baldwin and staff are far too good of coaches not too understand this. Our D is very young, and pretty banged up, as it was last season.

Coming into this season, I felt the exact same expectations you just mentioned. Good this year, with the potential for next season to be special. However, the "fan" in me says we're capable to win every year.

I'll add this: last year we seemed to always be out of position. It seemed like the DL, LBs, and secondary were operating off different playbooks. When we got gashed, there was typically no one even touching the ball carrier until he was 7 yards downfield.

We're not seeing that nearly as often this year. We get gashed, but it tends to be because of missed tackles or an inability to make a play. Our guys seem to be in good positions, so the schematics seem to have improved a lot.

Obviously, the results haven't changed, and youth might be a better excuse for this year's results than it was last year when we had a few quality seniors and still couldn't find any success.

 

[Crabcakes&Football]

I'll add this: last year we seemed to always be out of position. It seemed like the DL, LBs, and secondary were operating off different playbooks. When we got gashed, there was typically no one even touching the ball carrier until he was 7 yards downfield.

We're not seeing that nearly as often this year. We get gashed, but it tends to be because of missed tackles or an inability to make a play. Our guys seem to be in good positions, so the schematics seem to have improved a lot.

Obviously, the results haven't changed, and youth might be a better excuse for this year's results than it was last year when we had a few quality seniors and still couldn't find any success.

I agree 100% :thumb:

 

[kalm]

This is just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. I think a lot of it has to do with what Dopa said below:

One thing I'd throw out is that they rotate so many guys on defense that they almost never put the best 11 on the field. We're one of the only teams I know who routinely rotates cornerbacks. One thing I noticed when we became successful yesterday and started shutting Sac State down, we were only rotating DL. Hopefully yesterday's second half is a sign of improvement, but we won't really know for a couple of weeks.

We seem to lack an identity, and I think that has to do with the fact that we have so many different young guys playing. The conundrum here is that our defense is so young that you almost have to play a ton of guys just to be able to build the kind of experience and depth that we're going to need the next few years. The flip side of that is that outside of LB and maybe Safety, there aren't a lot of guys that are playing the majority of a game to where they're building chemistry with the players around them.

The second thing that I have noticed is that we have numerous impact players on offense, but very few, if any, on defense. Eastern has almost always been an offensive-minded program, but when you look back to the last truly great team we had (2010), the difference was the defense. We had a least one impact-type player at every level on the D (I.E. guys that are capable of changing a game with one play). That 2010 defense had at least one "great" player at every position:

DT - Renard Williams
DE - Jerry Ceja
LB - JC Sherritt and Zack Johnson
CB - Jesse Hoffman
S - Matt Johnson

This is not to say that we don't have guys that aren't capable of being impact type players along the away, but this defense is so young...we don't have anyone who's there yet.

It's kind of depressing to think about how much our defense has regressed since 2010. We've had some great individual players (McCarthy, Pulu, Hamlin) the past few years, but not a collective group of players playing as high of a level as 2010. Each year our D has been consistently worse since then. Can anyone imagine anyone putting up 50+ points on that 2010 defense? I can't either.

Lastly, our defense is all about not giving up the big play, and is largely predicated on creating TO's. We're not creating any. The recipe to beat EWU seems to just be to pound away on us on the ground and keep our offense off of the field. It's hard to create TO's when every team is doing the same thing to try and beat us. Prior to last night's game we were dead last in run defense, and I don't expect that stat line changed much after it. We need run-stoppers.

Great post, and Tyler Jolley may have been the unsung hero on that crew. :nod:

 

[clawman1]

DT - Renard Williams
DE - Jerry Ceja
LB - JC Sherritt and Zack Johnson
CB - Jesse Hoffman
S - Matt Johnson

Not to forget Tyler Jolly and Greg Peach

 

[EWURanger]

DT - Renard Williams
DE - Jerry Ceja
LB - JC Sherritt and Zack Johnson
CB - Jesse Hoffman
S - Matt Johnson

Not to forget Tyler Jolly and Greg Peach

Peach was an unstoppable force from his DE position, but I believe he graduated in 2008...maybe 2009.

Totally agreed on Jolly, be may have been the emotional leader of that 2010 defense.

 

[clawman1]

Why is it some schools are known for defense? Nebraska, NDSU, and numerous others, yet the Eagles have a reputation of NO defense. I dont doubt the effort by players or coaches yet it does not happen. We ve changed DC s and have some very good athletes, yet even an average defense is only a dream.
Where does the culture of a team start?

 

[EWURanger]

I don't want to come across as being too negative. I am almost certain that the defense is going to improve as the season goes along. There is a LOT of young talent on this defense...but they are just that. YOUNG guys. Kacmarcik is going to be a star at the outside LB position, and I love our size at the defensive tackle position. Keenan Williams and Jonah Jordan are going to be terrific DE's for us (hope he gets healthy soon).

We're just going to have to be patient and hope that our offense keeps humming along while the defense gets enough experience under their belts to play at a competent level by the time we close out the season at Montana and against PSU.

 

[marceagfan5]

Why is it some schools are known for defense? Nebraska, NDSU, and numerous others, yet the Eagles have a reputation of NO defense. I dont doubt the effort by players or coaches yet it does not happen. We ve changed DC s and have some very good athletes, yet even an average defense is only a dream.
Where does the culture of a team start?

Eastern does get lumped in to having a bad defense, year in, year out, but when you really look at it, Eastern's defense hasn't been that bad.

Our D in 2010 won us the championship that year and if you take out our FBS and D2 game, we held all FCS opponents to 22 a game that year.

In 2011 we were decimated by injuries but we only gave up more than 40 twice, once in the killer loss to PSU and once in a 3OT game to Cal Poly.

In 2012 we didn't give up more than 30 (including 2 FBS games) to anyone except our last 2 playoff games, where we beat ISU in a shootout and lost to SHSU in a shootout.

In 2013 we weren't that bad, had a rough start against OSU, Toledo, and Sam Houston, but didn't give up many points at all in conference.

Last year was pretty bad, we gave up 50+ in 4 games, and this year we have already given up 50+ in our first 4 games. Not sure what the deal is but I think we are moving in the right direction. We changed coordinators and schemes, unfortunately we had a juggernaut for an OOC schedule and a young defense this year so the results haven't looked great, but I think we are going to be fine moving forward this year. It will be interesting to see how we look after a week off and then Cal Poly/ISU...

 

[EdubU10]

Why is it some schools are known for defense? Nebraska, NDSU, and numerous others, yet the Eagles have a reputation of NO defense. I dont doubt the effort by players or coaches yet it does not happen. We ve changed DC s and have some very good athletes, yet even an average defense is only a dream.
Where does the culture of a team start?

Eastern does get lumped in to having a bad defense, year in, year out, but when you really look at it, Eastern's defense hasn't been that bad.

Our D in 2010 won us the championship that year and if you take out our FBS and D2 game, we held all FCS opponents to 22 a game that year.

In 2011 we were decimated by injuries but we only gave up more than 40 twice, once in the killer loss to PSU and once in a 3OT game to Cal Poly.

In 2012 we didn't give up more than 30 (including 2 FBS games) to anyone except our last 2 playoff games, where we beat ISU in a shootout and lost to SHSU in a shootout.

In 2013 we weren't that bad, had a rough start against OSU, Toledo, and Sam Houston, but didn't give up many points at all in conference.

Last year was pretty bad, we gave up 50+ in 4 games, and this year we have already given up 50+ in our first 4 games. Not sure what the deal is but I think we are moving in the right direction. We changed coordinators and schemes, unfortunately we had a juggernaut for an OOC schedule and a young defense this year so the results haven't looked great, but I think we are going to be fine moving forward this year. It will be interesting to see how we look after a week off and then Cal Poly/ISU...

All fair points although I'll never be able to un-see that final drive by Towson in the semis.

 

[tomq04]

All fair points although I'll never be able to un-see that final drive by Towson in the semis.

OH GOD MY EYES

 

[marceagfan5]

All fair points although I'll never be able to un-see that final drive by Towson in the semis.

OH GOD MY EYES

Yeah, that sucked, once we went up 31-21 in the 4th I thought that game was over...

The 4&2 overthrow is the one that sticks in my mind...

That damn game

 

[EWUeag]

Why is it some schools are known for defense? Nebraska, NDSU, and numerous others, yet the Eagles have a reputation of NO defense. I dont doubt the effort by players or coaches yet it does not happen. We ve changed DC s and have some very good athletes, yet even an average defense is only a dream.
Where does the culture of a team start?

Eastern does get lumped in to having a bad defense, year in, year out, but when you really look at it, Eastern's defense hasn't been that bad.

Our D in 2010 won us the championship that year and if you take out our FBS and D2 game, we held all FCS opponents to 22 a game that year.

In 2011 we were decimated by injuries but we only gave up more than 40 twice, once in the killer loss to PSU and once in a 3OT game to Cal Poly.

In 2012 we didn't give up more than 30 (including 2 FBS games) to anyone except our last 2 playoff games, where we beat ISU in a shootout and lost to SHSU in a shootout.

In 2013 we weren't that bad, had a rough start against OSU, Toledo, and Sam Houston, but didn't give up many points at all in conference.

Last year was pretty bad, we gave up 50+ in 4 games, and this year we have already given up 50+ in our first 4 games. Not sure what the deal is but I think we are moving in the right direction. We changed coordinators and schemes, unfortunately we had a juggernaut for an OOC schedule and a young defense this year so the results haven't looked great, but I think we are going to be fine moving forward this year. It will be interesting to see how we look after a week off and then Cal Poly/ISU...

All fair points although I'll never be able to un-see that final drive by Towson in the semis.

I'd laugh if it didn't hurt still hno:

 

[Rjones61]

and this year we have already given up 50+ in our first 4 games. .

Wait what? We've given up 50+ to Montana State and Oregon. That's only two teams.