skippy57.0
Active member
Wow shoot 59 percent in the first half and 7 for 25 in the second. (Sorry misread the box at first -- still quite a negative turnaround)
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- Thread starter skippy57.0
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bengalcub
Active member
The team looked like they were playing in quicksand for the last 30 minutes of this game. They just didn't seem to have the desire to compete tonight--outside of the first 10 minutes. Mentally, they just seemed not committed.
This trip appeared to be one step forward and not two quite two steps back--but at least one step back. Not sure if I am making sense or not, but they need to get it together and get it back (between the ears) over the next 10 days.
I still think they can.
This trip appeared to be one step forward and not two quite two steps back--but at least one step back. Not sure if I am making sense or not, but they need to get it together and get it back (between the ears) over the next 10 days.
I still think they can.
Cub, why is this a player issue?
the Coach subbed players when we had a 12-0 run and gave away ALL momentum
then did NOT replace those players until we were even or behind
we never ran a set to speak of on the perimeter
I knew the coach speak would be right around the corner,
Long road trip, tough teams, hard to win on the road, we just coudnt put it all together, we need a full 40 minutes from everyone blah, blah, blah
these players are good enough, period!, however the staff continues to put them in bad spots
against really good teams the staff sits back and lets them play, against mediocre teams they get goofy with subs and matchups - its undeniable
this is exactly the type of team we will face in the BSC and the staff tried to OVERCOACH an easy win!
we were bigger, quicker and BETTER! yet we gave it away - the players didnt give up, the staff did!
the Coach subbed players when we had a 12-0 run and gave away ALL momentum
then did NOT replace those players until we were even or behind
we never ran a set to speak of on the perimeter
I knew the coach speak would be right around the corner,
Long road trip, tough teams, hard to win on the road, we just coudnt put it all together, we need a full 40 minutes from everyone blah, blah, blah
these players are good enough, period!, however the staff continues to put them in bad spots
against really good teams the staff sits back and lets them play, against mediocre teams they get goofy with subs and matchups - its undeniable
this is exactly the type of team we will face in the BSC and the staff tried to OVERCOACH an easy win!
we were bigger, quicker and BETTER! yet we gave it away - the players didnt give up, the staff did!
bengalcub
Active member
They looked tired to me and slow tonight--my opinion--that is all. It didn't look like the team I saw in the past two games. I am not absolving coaching at all--but I cannot see or hear what is being said by the staff. What I can see is a team that appeared to be very sluggish tonight
I am not going to argue with you anymore about sets and rotations--it's useless. If the team wins--its because the coaches shut up. If they lose it is because the coaches sub too much or over coach. It is really a debate over something that you and I cannot control.
What I will maintain is that I still believe in all of them together as a team...coaches included.
I also believe that O'Brien will be judged in the end by wins and losses. If this staff is as bad as some think they are--ISU will continue to lose--under perform for the season--and O'Brien's contract will not be renewed.
I am not going to argue with you anymore about sets and rotations--it's useless. If the team wins--its because the coaches shut up. If they lose it is because the coaches sub too much or over coach. It is really a debate over something that you and I cannot control.
What I will maintain is that I still believe in all of them together as a team...coaches included.
I also believe that O'Brien will be judged in the end by wins and losses. If this staff is as bad as some think they are--ISU will continue to lose--under perform for the season--and O'Brien's contract will not be renewed.
Point of clarification here....at 18-7 after a 12-0 run, Amorrow picked up his second foul. Phyllip came in for him. Green Bay then got it to 23-17 (just a 10-5) run, and Donnie came in for Phyllip. GB cut it to 25-23, and Kal came back in for Austin due to the ankle, since he couldn't go overly long on it. Just pointing this out to say that saying Joe subbed players after a 12-0 run killed momentum doesn't make any sense. He left four of the guys who built an 18-7 lead on the floor, and swapped one position out with two different players. Meech was fine, and Lucas couldn't really come out with Busma at two fouls. Matt played the whole game as well. I just don't see that particular argument holding water the way it's presented.
Cub, I think they were tired....crap I'm tired of this trip and of all the travel and I haven't played.
ISUSID
Cub, I think they were tired....crap I'm tired of this trip and of all the travel and I haven't played.
ISUSID
votb
Active member
First of all, let me say that since this a fan web/blog site, you can all freely express your opinions until you can't type anymore. Let me also point out that I am paid by the athletic department to announce games, so I expect myself to show loyalty to players, coaches and administrators.
I've been broadcasting basketball and football games since the early 70's, and by and large have traveled with most of the teams I've covered, including a few years with the Utah Jazz. After all that I figure that during my lifetime I've seen upwards of a thousand basketball games, and one thing I know for sure is that through it all, no matter how well a team may be prepared before tipoff, sometimes crap happens. Players get hurt, matchups are bad, an opponent has a game of a lifetime, referees suck (not that unusual), or your team just has an off night..whether they're tired, distracted, or just plain believe their press clippings and think all they have to do is show up. I don't know what all came into play last night, but I do know that Coach Brown did a great job scouting GB, and the game plan was sound.
I do agree with you Cub that it's odd to give the players all the praise when things are going well and give the coaches all the blame when trouble hits. And I promise that if you talk to ALL of the players...the one thing you'll hear from most of them is that they just didn't play well last night. I admit that sometimes coaches screw up, and Joe has readily admitted errors he's made.
I am expressing my opinions alone. I see a team still trying to settle on an identity...and I honestly feel we'll be much closer to our potential by the time we hit league play. We've got lots of players, new and old, trying to find their place in the new chemistry of this team...it naturally takes time, and a very tough schedule can reveal the struggles of that process. Yes, we'll have games where we slip, but our level of "good" play keeps going up as we progress. To date we've played the 17th toughest schedule in all of D-1 basketball. I recommend taking a deep breath, then exhaling slowly. And I'll never criticize a True Bengal fan for wanting our team to get better...which what we all want, including coaches and players.
I've been broadcasting basketball and football games since the early 70's, and by and large have traveled with most of the teams I've covered, including a few years with the Utah Jazz. After all that I figure that during my lifetime I've seen upwards of a thousand basketball games, and one thing I know for sure is that through it all, no matter how well a team may be prepared before tipoff, sometimes crap happens. Players get hurt, matchups are bad, an opponent has a game of a lifetime, referees suck (not that unusual), or your team just has an off night..whether they're tired, distracted, or just plain believe their press clippings and think all they have to do is show up. I don't know what all came into play last night, but I do know that Coach Brown did a great job scouting GB, and the game plan was sound.
I do agree with you Cub that it's odd to give the players all the praise when things are going well and give the coaches all the blame when trouble hits. And I promise that if you talk to ALL of the players...the one thing you'll hear from most of them is that they just didn't play well last night. I admit that sometimes coaches screw up, and Joe has readily admitted errors he's made.
I am expressing my opinions alone. I see a team still trying to settle on an identity...and I honestly feel we'll be much closer to our potential by the time we hit league play. We've got lots of players, new and old, trying to find their place in the new chemistry of this team...it naturally takes time, and a very tough schedule can reveal the struggles of that process. Yes, we'll have games where we slip, but our level of "good" play keeps going up as we progress. To date we've played the 17th toughest schedule in all of D-1 basketball. I recommend taking a deep breath, then exhaling slowly. And I'll never criticize a True Bengal fan for wanting our team to get better...which what we all want, including coaches and players.
just to be clear, I WANT us to win and WE ARE GETTING BETTER
but just as I have praised the staff for getting us there, they deserve critisism when they fail, players get sat if they make a mistake
no doubt this trip was LONG and DIFFICULT! and we probably shot our wad against the badgers, but we should have been better prepared for that game
cub you are right some of the players looked like they didnt care to be there, but a few players gave all they had, I am more inclined to harp on the staff than I am the players
the staff cant make shots, or freethrows, create space or make passes, but they can get the guys prepared and have them play well, thats their job
FEAR THE BENGAL!
but just as I have praised the staff for getting us there, they deserve critisism when they fail, players get sat if they make a mistake
no doubt this trip was LONG and DIFFICULT! and we probably shot our wad against the badgers, but we should have been better prepared for that game
cub you are right some of the players looked like they didnt care to be there, but a few players gave all they had, I am more inclined to harp on the staff than I am the players
the staff cant make shots, or freethrows, create space or make passes, but they can get the guys prepared and have them play well, thats their job
FEAR THE BENGAL!
Spearmint Rhino
Active member
of the coaching staff. In particular, the timing of substitutions makes me literally tear my hair out! Take the following sequence in the Wisconsin game, for example. WHY WAS CASPARI TAKEN OUT WHEN HE WAS DOMINATING? IT KILLED THE BENGALS' MOMENTUM! This happens every game, the players may be different, but the result is the same! I plead with Coach O'Brien to leave the guys out there who are PRODUCING!!!
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2nd PERIOD Play-by-Play (Page 1)
HOME TEAM: Wisconsin TIME SCORE MAR VISITORS: Idaho State
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:00 SUB IN : Caspari, Felix
20:00 SUB OUT: Busma, Deividas
19:34 29-29 T 2 GOOD! LAYUP by Caspari, Felix [PNT]
MISSED 3 PTR by Bohannon, Jason 18:57 REBOUND (DEF) by Monroe, Demetrius
18:30 29-31 V 2 GOOD! LAYUP by Caspari, Felix [PNT]
18:30 ASSIST by Stucki, Matt
TIMEOUT 30sec 18:22
SUB IN : Leuer, Jon 18:22
SUB OUT: Nankivil, Keaton 18:22
GOOD! LAYUP by Landry, Marcus [PNT] 18:14 31-31 T 3
17:53 31-33 V 2 GOOD! JUMPER by Carson, Donnie
17:29 FOUL by Stucki, Matt (P1T1)
MISSED LAYUP by Bohannon, Jason 17:26 BLOCK by Carson, Donnie
REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM) 17:26
MISSED FT SHOT by Leuer, Jon 17:21 FOUL by Carson, Donnie (P2T2)
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL) 17:21
MISSED FT SHOT by Leuer, Jon 17:21
REBOUND (OFF) by Krabbenhoft, Joe 17:21
GOOD! JUMPER by Landry, Marcus 17:02 33-33 T 4
16:36 TURNOVR by Morgan, Amorrow
STEAL by Landry, Marcus 16:35
GOOD! JUMPER by Krabbenhoft, Joe [PNT] 16:20 35-33 H 2
ASSIST by Hughes, Trevon 16:20
FOUL by Leuer, Jon (P2T1) 15:50
15:49 TIMEOUT MEDIA
15:49 MISSED FT SHOT by Monroe, Demetrius
15:49 REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
REBOUND (DEF) by Landry, Marcus 15:49 MISSED FT SHOT by Monroe, Demetrius
15:49 SUB IN : Bay, Kal
15:49 SUB IN : Busma, Deividas
15:49 SUB OUT: Morgan, Amorrow
15:49 SUB OUT: Caspari, Felix
----------------------------------------------------------------
2nd PERIOD Play-by-Play (Page 1)
HOME TEAM: Wisconsin TIME SCORE MAR VISITORS: Idaho State
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20:00 SUB IN : Caspari, Felix
20:00 SUB OUT: Busma, Deividas
19:34 29-29 T 2 GOOD! LAYUP by Caspari, Felix [PNT]
MISSED 3 PTR by Bohannon, Jason 18:57 REBOUND (DEF) by Monroe, Demetrius
18:30 29-31 V 2 GOOD! LAYUP by Caspari, Felix [PNT]
18:30 ASSIST by Stucki, Matt
TIMEOUT 30sec 18:22
SUB IN : Leuer, Jon 18:22
SUB OUT: Nankivil, Keaton 18:22
GOOD! LAYUP by Landry, Marcus [PNT] 18:14 31-31 T 3
17:53 31-33 V 2 GOOD! JUMPER by Carson, Donnie
17:29 FOUL by Stucki, Matt (P1T1)
MISSED LAYUP by Bohannon, Jason 17:26 BLOCK by Carson, Donnie
REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM) 17:26
MISSED FT SHOT by Leuer, Jon 17:21 FOUL by Carson, Donnie (P2T2)
REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL) 17:21
MISSED FT SHOT by Leuer, Jon 17:21
REBOUND (OFF) by Krabbenhoft, Joe 17:21
GOOD! JUMPER by Landry, Marcus 17:02 33-33 T 4
16:36 TURNOVR by Morgan, Amorrow
STEAL by Landry, Marcus 16:35
GOOD! JUMPER by Krabbenhoft, Joe [PNT] 16:20 35-33 H 2
ASSIST by Hughes, Trevon 16:20
FOUL by Leuer, Jon (P2T1) 15:50
15:49 TIMEOUT MEDIA
15:49 MISSED FT SHOT by Monroe, Demetrius
15:49 REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
REBOUND (DEF) by Landry, Marcus 15:49 MISSED FT SHOT by Monroe, Demetrius
15:49 SUB IN : Bay, Kal
15:49 SUB IN : Busma, Deividas
15:49 SUB OUT: Morgan, Amorrow
15:49 SUB OUT: Caspari, Felix
votb
Active member
OK...this is good conversation. So we agree that coaches can't take shots or set picks or make passes. Let's keep going with this.
So let's say the coaching staff has done a good job scouting an opponent and even extends game-day practice a half hour to go over the gameplan over and over until everyone gets it. Then gametime comes and sure enough, the opponent does EXACTLY what the scouting report says, and your team creates a double-digit lead because they follow the game plan, but you've had to sub because you've got a couple of guys in foul trouble. Then all of a sudden the guys aren't doing the same things and the lead evaporates. You even bring back in one of your key players, even though he's got 2 fouls, and sure enough he gets his third and has to come out again. Unless you call time-outs (which you do) or make various substitutions trying to find any combination that works, just HOW DOES a staff "get the players to play well" during a game? You've got the right game plan, you've drilled it in practice until everyone understands, but during the game the team (with few exceptions) just doesn't execute offensively or defensively the things taught and practiced? HOW do you get them to EXECUTE without subbing or calling timeouts to re-emphasize what has to happen? Give me some realistic, specific answers...no generalizations. If YOU are the coach and it's your job to properly prepare the team (which you've done in practice), but they just seem listless and low on energy and get outplayed by a team that's not a better team, what will YOU DO to fix it DURING the game? Remember, YOU are the coach...not Joe...and you HAVE to get the guys to "play well", because fans expect and demand it and your career depends on those kids winning most of your games.
So let's say the coaching staff has done a good job scouting an opponent and even extends game-day practice a half hour to go over the gameplan over and over until everyone gets it. Then gametime comes and sure enough, the opponent does EXACTLY what the scouting report says, and your team creates a double-digit lead because they follow the game plan, but you've had to sub because you've got a couple of guys in foul trouble. Then all of a sudden the guys aren't doing the same things and the lead evaporates. You even bring back in one of your key players, even though he's got 2 fouls, and sure enough he gets his third and has to come out again. Unless you call time-outs (which you do) or make various substitutions trying to find any combination that works, just HOW DOES a staff "get the players to play well" during a game? You've got the right game plan, you've drilled it in practice until everyone understands, but during the game the team (with few exceptions) just doesn't execute offensively or defensively the things taught and practiced? HOW do you get them to EXECUTE without subbing or calling timeouts to re-emphasize what has to happen? Give me some realistic, specific answers...no generalizations. If YOU are the coach and it's your job to properly prepare the team (which you've done in practice), but they just seem listless and low on energy and get outplayed by a team that's not a better team, what will YOU DO to fix it DURING the game? Remember, YOU are the coach...not Joe...and you HAVE to get the guys to "play well", because fans expect and demand it and your career depends on those kids winning most of your games.
bengalcub
Active member
Good exercise, VOTB...here are some quotes from the players...
From the Idaho State Journal:
"This one hurts because we weren't even competitive," he said. "If we had gotten blown out but played hard the whole way, that's one thing. I can live with that. But we didn't even do that today."
Morgan, who was held to a season-low four points, agreed.
"We just weren't ready today," he said. "They were a lot tougher than us. They were too tough for us. They came ready to fight, and we didn't want to fight back. Everyone was soft."
From the Idaho State Journal:
"This one hurts because we weren't even competitive," he said. "If we had gotten blown out but played hard the whole way, that's one thing. I can live with that. But we didn't even do that today."
Morgan, who was held to a season-low four points, agreed.
"We just weren't ready today," he said. "They were a lot tougher than us. They were too tough for us. They came ready to fight, and we didn't want to fight back. Everyone was soft."
skippy57.0
Active member
Spearmint, I have to disagree with your characterization of Caspari as "dominating" the game. He got a couple of nice passes for two layups inside. He made a nice contribution, but he certainly wasn't "dominating." Caspari gives the team a nice energy boost when he's in there, but he has his limitations.
votb
Active member
I was really hoping to get some realistic responses here. I truly was looking for some answers.
I guess the whole point being that sometimes, as a coach, you can try just about everything you can think of and it still doesn't work. I even remember a game at Weber(where motivation is never a problem) where ISU's coach pulled the entire starting lineup from a game en masse, and took them all out into the hallway DURING the game and let them have it, and we still ended up getting clobbered.
There are many dynamics that make up a team. Somettimes you see teams "click", and sometimes they just don't. Sometimes IT IS a coach's fault, and sometimes it's the players. But bad games happen, and every season has a story linked from one game to the next. We've got a still long, hard road ahead, and I'm just hoping that we can stop the finger-pointing, no matter who it's at.
In the end, Joe knows it all comes down on his shoulders, as it does with every coach. Tough schedule or easy, they've got to deliver in league play for him to keep his job. I would think that's enough pressure.
I guess the whole point being that sometimes, as a coach, you can try just about everything you can think of and it still doesn't work. I even remember a game at Weber(where motivation is never a problem) where ISU's coach pulled the entire starting lineup from a game en masse, and took them all out into the hallway DURING the game and let them have it, and we still ended up getting clobbered.
There are many dynamics that make up a team. Somettimes you see teams "click", and sometimes they just don't. Sometimes IT IS a coach's fault, and sometimes it's the players. But bad games happen, and every season has a story linked from one game to the next. We've got a still long, hard road ahead, and I'm just hoping that we can stop the finger-pointing, no matter who it's at.
In the end, Joe knows it all comes down on his shoulders, as it does with every coach. Tough schedule or easy, they've got to deliver in league play for him to keep his job. I would think that's enough pressure.
bengalcub
Active member
I think it was just a bad game. I think the team looked tired and not with it. I am hoping that 7-8 days off helps the old batteries get charged.
What I do know is that I thought this team would have a horrible record going into conference. I knew that a number of people wound be ripping O'Brien and I knew that a number of folks would jump on and sip from the cup when this team was winning in conference. I remember a few short years ago when everyone said that O'Brien could coach, but he couldn't recruit. Now we hear that the team is loaded and he can't coach them. But really, when you schedule like the athletic department has been (football and basketball) this is the risk that you run. No matter what, most of the fans of Idaho state will see a 3-4 win club that has lost 10-12 games early, not a conference contender.
Utah State is going to be tough with the two studs that they have at PF and Center. I hope that Idaho State is ready to be physical or it could be a very long night.
I am patient because I have seen O'Brien do it twice before.
What I do know is that I thought this team would have a horrible record going into conference. I knew that a number of people wound be ripping O'Brien and I knew that a number of folks would jump on and sip from the cup when this team was winning in conference. I remember a few short years ago when everyone said that O'Brien could coach, but he couldn't recruit. Now we hear that the team is loaded and he can't coach them. But really, when you schedule like the athletic department has been (football and basketball) this is the risk that you run. No matter what, most of the fans of Idaho state will see a 3-4 win club that has lost 10-12 games early, not a conference contender.
Utah State is going to be tough with the two studs that they have at PF and Center. I hope that Idaho State is ready to be physical or it could be a very long night.
I am patient because I have seen O'Brien do it twice before.
Does anybody know a message board for ISU fans….not staff? A place were just fans can vent frustrations without having “Big Brother” looking over our shoulder, a safe place that doesn’t take itself too seriously. Where you can piss into the wind. A place were ideas and opinions are free to go. Anybody????
Spearmint Rhino
Active member
VOTB, I have been away for a few days, just saw your "challenge." I will formulate a response and post it shortly...
