Why not Weber?

[Rustynail]

I've posted before,and told myself that I've said enough,but when I saw why not Weber? I couldn't resist.I'm 65 years old,and I've been going to Weber games since my mid teens.it's interesting reading about the budget.It must make a difference In recruiting talent.That being said,it's never stopped Weber from being the dominant force in the Big Sky, as it once was.Dick Motta was our first Mark Frew,and he knew how to take a program to the top.He went on to become a famous coach in the NBA for many years.Next was Phil Johnson who's Weber teams dominated.He went on To become a coach, and assistant coach in the NBA as we all know.Then we had Neil Mcarthy, who's teams were almost automatic to win the big sky.We also had Ron Abegglan,who knew what he needed to take the program to the next level.His teams beat Michigan State,and North Carolina,and came within a couple of points of beating an excellent Florida team in the NCAA tournaments.Those things seem like an impossible dream,now. The only other coaches we had that weren't automatic dominant coaches in the Big sky were coach Craven and Larry Farmer.They were both promptly fired. Coach Rahe is a good man,but his teams can't seem to beat anybody in pre-season games,before the conference starts.His tenure at Weber has been the longest,dryest,spell Weber has ever had. He just doesn't have the Mo Jo,like his predecessors.The administration doesn't seem to care anymore,and pretty soon the student body won't either. The torch hasn't been passed on.I really hope next years team shows promise, of going to the next level for coach Rahes sake.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Rusty you make some good points. Rahe has definitely struggled in the pre-season, but we all have to admit he has virtually owned the Sky, a watered down Sky, but still he has been pretty good. What is frustrating is that Weber hasn't really taken it to that next level and that's not just the program. This season was a disaster on the court, pre-game prep, intros, music, halftime entertainment and by far the most obvious in the student section. It all seemed very half-assed! People going through the motions. Just doing enough. One thing that I really appreciate about Rahe is his toughness and consistent effort. You've gotta admire that.

What I'm really sick of is that lackadaisical attitude of the administration. They treat fans like enemies. It almost seems like they hate anyone who has an opinion or idea. It is pathetic. It your most loyal agree that there is a serious issue, maybe you should listen to what they have to say. You don't have to agree, but it is good to listen. A lot needs to be fixed and it isn't happening.

 

[oldrunner]

Rusty;

The thing you left out of your narrative was how many losers we went through after McCarthy, before we got to Abbeglen. On a side note, I became close friends with one of the star players off of one of those McCarthy teams. He claimed that most of the success was due to Dick Hunsaker's work and not McCarthy's. He said that McCarthy would often just fail to show up for work or practice. Ron Had a good run and won some big games, but all of his seasons weren't roses. After Ron, we went through a lot of pain and mediocrity before hiring Randy. Randy has more post season wins than any other WSU coach but hasn't produced the so called 'BIG WIN'. He has had a lot of 20+ win seasons and one losing season. So, if we do what you are calling for and fire his a$$, how many years of mediocrity do we have to go through before we find another coach as good as Randy. You make it sound like we can just go to one of the local high schools, hire their coach, and wallah, National Championship here we come. The real world isn't quite like that.

Coaches change, learn and evolve. McCarthy was a better coach at NMS than what he was at WSU. He learned from some of his tough loses at WSU and completely changed his recruiting, offense and defense at NMS. My feelings are that it is way, way, way too early to be talking the way you are talking about this coaching staff. In the coaching world our staff is young. They are still learning and evolving. I believe that those 'BIG WINS' are coming. One losing season is not the end of the world. :twocents:

 

[Rustynail]

I admire coach Rahe for some of those things also.its not a personal attack on the man.I don't know him personally,but he seems like a fine straight forward person.Yes,there have been some 20 plus win seasons,against frankly weak schedules.20 win seasons sound respectable,but you look at the other 7,8, or 9 losses and their mostly to division 1 schools outside the Big Sky.You can count on losing to Utah State and BYU every pre season as well as any other school that has a decent reputation. It's not the losing season they had this year at all.we couldn't even win the Big Sky in the 3 seasons Damian was here,and were talking about an NBA all-star.Other players that could complement him, or carry some load,were never brought in to help. not just that,but his teams are never prepared for full court traps,or zone defenses teams thrown at Them.He's just flat out being out coached.You say it's too early to push the panic button.He's been the coach for at least 10 years,and fans have been largely disappointed.The panic button should have been pushed a few years ago.Yes we went to the big dance a couple of seasons ago,but 1 out of 10 is ridiculous,when fans were used to going all the time. We need a national search for a hungry new coach, with larger aspirations.I don't think I'm just being pessimistic,it's just being realistic.Next year though, all the pieces are going to fall into place and the proud Weber tradition will once again reign.Or not.

 

[oldrunner]

Rusty;

I do understand your frustration. I think that all of us want our program to take that next step and begin to win some of those 'BIG GAMES'. We were a little spoiled with Ron A. at the helm, because he definitely could win those big games, if he had time to prepare. He was not so good at winning on short notice. He never had the depth of talent for that. The preparation aspect is one that this staff could make improvement in. We definitely have more depth of talent with Randy at the helm. Ron did a lot of things that I really liked. Randy does a lot of things that I really like. They are both really good coaches. When Ron took over, he was already a seasoned head coach. When Randy took over, he was brand new to the head coach position. He had been an assistant for many years. Randy is not yet to the same level of experience as Ron was when he took over our program. Randy just completed his 9th year as HC. He has been to the dance twice, post season play 8 times, and has won several post season games. He has one losing season. I think he is progressing just fine.

 

[WeberSki]

Rusty;

I do understand your frustration. I think that all of us want our program to take that next step and begin to win some of those 'BIG GAMES'. We were a little spoiled with Ron A. at the helm, because he definitely could win those big games, if he had time to prepare. He was not so good at winning on short notice. He never had the depth of talent for that. The preparation aspect is one that this staff could make improvement in. We definitely have more depth of talent with Randy at the helm. Ron did a lot of things that I really liked. Randy does a lot of things that I really like. They are both really good coaches. When Ron took over, he was already a seasoned head coach. When Randy took over, he was brand new to the head coach position. He had been an assistant for many years. Randy is not yet to the same level of experience as Ron was when he took over our program. Randy just completed his 9th year as HC. He has been to the dance twice, post season play 8 times, and has won several post season games. He has one losing season. I think he is progressing just fine.

Rahe's progression is stifled by his own stubbornness. He's the one that calls himself a creature of habit. That's what concerns me. That and a pattern of the same damn problems over and over during his tenure. Hell, I wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 point lead at halftime over anybody with Rahe as HC, Would you? The fact that he's not being offered the position at USU is very telling I believe. Especially where he coached there for so long. It looks like they are going in the direction of a guy who's never been a HC.

The biggest thing that concerns me is that Rahe believes so much in his system that is patterned after his mentor, that has had very limited big time success. Morrill won 1 NCAA game his entire career. Abegglan won more NCAA games over a 3 year span with less talent than Morrill won over 30 years. Everything Rahe does, so closely resembles Morrill's way of doing things. From scheduling to lack of ability to breaking a press.

 

[Itiger]

Rusty;

I do understand your frustration. I think that all of us want our program to take that next step and begin to win some of those 'BIG GAMES'. We were a little spoiled with Ron A. at the helm, because he definitely could win those big games, if he had time to prepare. He was not so good at winning on short notice. He never had the depth of talent for that. The preparation aspect is one that this staff could make improvement in. We definitely have more depth of talent with Randy at the helm. Ron did a lot of things that I really liked. Randy does a lot of things that I really like. They are both really good coaches. When Ron took over, he was already a seasoned head coach. When Randy took over, he was brand new to the head coach position. He had been an assistant for many years. Randy is not yet to the same level of experience as Ron was when he took over our program. Randy just completed his 9th year as HC. He has been to the dance twice, post season play 8 times, and has won several post season games. He has one losing season. I think he is progressing just fine.

Rahe's progression is stifled by his own stubbornness. He's the one that calls himself a creature of habit. That's what concerns me. That and a pattern of the same damn problems over and over during his tenure. Hell, I wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 point lead at halftime over anybody with Rahe as HC, Would you? The fact that he's not being offered the position at USU is very telling I believe. Especially where he coached there for so long. It looks like they are going in the direction of a guy who's never been a HC.

The biggest thing that concerns me is that Rahe believes so much in his system that is patterned after his mentor, that has had very limited big time success. Morrill won 1 NCAA game his entire career. Abegglan won more NCAA games over a 3 year span with less talent than Morrill won over 30 years. Everything Rahe does, so closely resembles Morrill's way of doing things. From scheduling to lack of ability to breaking a press.

I'm a Coach Rahe fan, but I'm not in agreement with Oldrunner that he needs time to mature in the role! the guy has been a head Coach at Weber for 10 YEARS! How long does it take to build a program at the D1 level?

In terms of his stubbornness.... thats a flaw and the strength of a top Coach is knowing your issues and working around it! Even Coach K this year put in a zone after years of avoiding it! I want to see Coach do well, but if the issue is being stubborn than its a personal issue thats on him. He needs to bring in bench coaches that he trust and listen to their counsel. Thats why they're there! Like I said, I'm a fan, but if he refuses to adjust to the times and his team, maybe it is almost time to think of another Coach.... I agree, with a 30 point lead, I get worried that we are about to lose the game. Thats amazing, but the collapses have been many and the "We too young" excuse just doesn't work!

 

[SWWeatherCat]

Rusty;

I do understand your frustration. I think that all of us want our program to take that next step and begin to win some of those 'BIG GAMES'. We were a little spoiled with Ron A. at the helm, because he definitely could win those big games, if he had time to prepare. He was not so good at winning on short notice. He never had the depth of talent for that. The preparation aspect is one that this staff could make improvement in. We definitely have more depth of talent with Randy at the helm. Ron did a lot of things that I really liked. Randy does a lot of things that I really like. They are both really good coaches. When Ron took over, he was already a seasoned head coach. When Randy took over, he was brand new to the head coach position. He had been an assistant for many years. Randy is not yet to the same level of experience as Ron was when he took over our program. Randy just completed his 9th year as HC. He has been to the dance twice, post season play 8 times, and has won several post season games. He has one losing season. I think he is progressing just fine.

Rahe's progression is stifled by his own stubbornness. He's the one that calls himself a creature of habit. That's what concerns me. That and a pattern of the same damn problems over and over during his tenure. Hell, I wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 point lead at halftime over anybody with Rahe as HC, Would you? The fact that he's not being offered the position at USU is very telling I believe. Especially where he coached there for so long. It looks like they are going in the direction of a guy who's never been a HC.

The biggest thing that concerns me is that Rahe believes so much in his system that is patterned after his mentor, that has had very limited big time success. Morrill won 1 NCAA game his entire career. Abegglan won more NCAA games over a 3 year span with less talent than Morrill won over 30 years. Everything Rahe does, so closely resembles Morrill's way of doing things. From scheduling to lack of ability to breaking a press.

Amen.

Please, I can't take the inexperienced (and/or young) excuses anymore. Ten years of running your own show is plenty of time to have a feel for your profession. Is he the highest paid HC in the BSC? If so, is he worth it? Is he a creature of habit, stubborn, or does he simply only know how to do what Stew taught him? It kinda seems like the latter when you look at things like years of struggling with pressure, large collapses, or a dwindling ability to compete OOC.

Maybe McCarthy wasn't the best employee-- I've never heard that about him-- but when he showed up, he was sure a good coach in my eyes. I won't call Rahe a terrible coach and he seems like a decent person but when I hear him being made out to be more than he is (what he's producing) I have to call B.S. If Rahe won't or doesn't know how to change and adapt; if Rahe won't or can't find assistants that are capable of filling his weak gaps, then why should we expect better next year or the next ten? You won't convince me that the talent hasn't been here to produce better results than has been seen.

Yes, Rahe was an improvement from what was before him but I think it's hard to argue that his program has steadily gotten better. His recruits have gotten better but the program has fluctuated about its average. Of course this is in the context of winning seasons, with many wins coming against lesser competition, and not being able to get the wins that ultimately matter most. I'm not overly concerned with a losing season here or there, I'm very concerned with a team that year-after-year can put up 20 wins, not make the NCAAs, and struggle with the same things they've struggled with all season, even multiple seasons.

 

[oldrunner]

All very good points.

This coming year will be quite important for Randy and our program. I'm hoping that he gets things turned around. I believe that he will. :twocents:

 

[n.ogdencat]

Rusty;

I do understand your frustration. I think that all of us want our program to take that next step and begin to win some of those 'BIG GAMES'. We were a little spoiled with Ron A. at the helm, because he definitely could win those big games, if he had time to prepare. He was not so good at winning on short notice. He never had the depth of talent for that. The preparation aspect is one that this staff could make improvement in. We definitely have more depth of talent with Randy at the helm. Ron did a lot of things that I really liked. Randy does a lot of things that I really like. They are both really good coaches. When Ron took over, he was already a seasoned head coach. When Randy took over, he was brand new to the head coach position. He had been an assistant for many years. Randy is not yet to the same level of experience as Ron was when he took over our program. Randy just completed his 9th year as HC. He has been to the dance twice, post season play 8 times, and has won several post season games. He has one losing season. I think he is progressing just fine.

Rahe's progression is stifled by his own stubbornness. He's the one that calls himself a creature of habit. That's what concerns me. That and a pattern of the same damn problems over and over during his tenure. Hell, I wouldn't be comfortable with a 30 point lead at halftime over anybody with Rahe as HC, Would you? The fact that he's not being offered the position at USU is very telling I believe. Especially where he coached there for so long. It looks like they are going in the direction of a guy who's never been a HC.

The biggest thing that concerns me is that Rahe believes so much in his system that is patterned after his mentor, that has had very limited big time success. Morrill won 1 NCAA game his entire career. Abegglan won more NCAA games over a 3 year span with less talent than Morrill won over 30 years. Everything Rahe does, so closely resembles Morrill's way of doing things. From scheduling to lack of ability to breaking a press.

Amen.

Please, I can't take the inexperienced (and/or young) excuses anymore. Ten years of running your own show is plenty of time to have a feel for your profession. Is he the highest paid HC in the BSC? If so, is he worth it? Is he a creature of habit, stubborn, or does he simply only know how to do what Stew taught him? It kinda seems like the latter when you look at things like years of struggling with pressure, large collapses, or a dwindling ability to compete OOC.

Maybe McCarthy wasn't the best employee-- I've never heard that about him-- but when he showed up, he was sure a good coach in my eyes. I won't call Rahe a terrible coach and he seems like a decent person but when I hear him being made out to be more than he is (what he's producing) I have to call B.S. If Rahe won't or doesn't know how to change and adapt; if Rahe won't or can't find assistants that are capable of filling his weak gaps, then why should we expect better next year or the next ten? You won't convince me that the talent hasn't been here to produce better results than has been seen.

Yes, Rahe was an improvement from what was before him but I think it's hard to argue that his program has steadily gotten better. His recruits have gotten better but the program has fluctuated about its average. Of course this is in the context of winning seasons, with many wins coming against lesser competition, and not being able to get the wins that ultimately matter most. I'm not overly concerned with a losing season here or there, I'm very concerned with a team that year-after-year can put up 20 wins, not make the NCAAs, and struggle with the same things they've struggled with all season, even multiple seasons.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Rahe is a good coach, but he isn't a great coach. He is stubborn, not a very good "in-game" coach and definitely struggles against Zone and pressure defenses. I agree that he should be bringing in assistants who can help cover his weak areas. Currently, I don't think he has a staff that he is comfortable with or confident in. We all know that the team desperately needs a development coach and a coach who can really get the most out of the bigs. As has been stated, there is a great deal of potential in the program, department, and school, but it isn't being reached. Why not? Losing Beckner right before the season started didn't help much. I think Smiley will only get better for the Cats. I think we see some coaching changes this off season.

On the flip side...to me, I'm a fan of coach Rahe. Some of the things he does absolutely drives me nuts, but I really like him and the teams he has had. This entire season I was frustrated and confused about what was happening, but at the end, I was really sad when the season suddenly ended in OT in Missoula Montana. I have a great deal of admiration and respect for the past team. They weren't playing in the right positions, weren't the best team, and in a sense were sacrificial lambs going to the slaughter. Their purpose this season was to gain experience, get better, and build a team. I think in some ways that was accomplished. To me, at least, I feel the anger we feel now is from the over-excitement we allowed ourselves to buy into before the season. I was one of the worst too. After losing so many experienced and veteran players how on earth could I even imagine that the Cats would come back and win the Sky?

No matter...since Rahe has been here:
5 20+ win seasons
2 25+ win seasons
1 30 win season (only one in Big Sky and Weber State history)
4 Big Sky Titles
2 Second place finishes
2 Third place finishes

2 NCAA Dance appearances
2 NIT appearances
2 CIT appearances (Runner Up)
1 CBI appearance

Most post-season wins in Weber State and dare I say Big Sky history.
Coached Weber's only All-American
Coached Four Conference MVPs (5 total: Dame twice, Berry, McCoy, and Patton)
Coached Damian Lillard and Davion Berry who were both All-District players
Coached 11 or 12 Big Sky 1st teamers
Coached 3 FOY, 2 DOY, and 2 NOY.

Right now the Cats have two players who have a great deal of potential on the roster and a guy who has been an NBA All-Star and Rookie of the Year who is an Alum. I think Rahe has done a pretty good job.

Is there room for improvement??? Of course, but we are in a good spot.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Several factors involved & they've been discussed & discussed. Coaching is a big part...here's my pitch on Coach Rahe; he is a GOOD but not great head coach, his "ceiling" has become apparent in 9 years @ Weber St. The phrase: "the sky's the limit" applies here in that it is Big Sky success primarily, with some rare OOC wins here & there. His team's best post season run was in the 2013 CIT (and I with several fans enjoyed it). According to my figures, Coach Rahe is overall 5-7 post season (national tourneys) CIT alone is 5-3.

Can arguably say the above is acceptable to the administration & a good many fans. The "bar" is set at that level, like it or not. Next year has some factors that will likely make it a better season, but to what extent, time will be very telling. When does Coach Rahe's contract run out? I will bet you that even with a small improvement next year, the current admin. will keep him on unless his contract expires, even then probably extend it a year or two or more. Bypass this past season, if the past is any indication, then Coach Rahe is going to have to make some real changes/adjustments in his overall coaching techniques to get to a "next level" or reach a supposed AD Bovee goal of some NCAA success, like some posters here want. :nod:

 

[sadkitty64]

Fun discussion!

I just doubt Bovee making any moves. The guy resigned a terrible women's coach because she won more games throughout her current tenure here at Weber this year than all of the previous seasons combined.

News flash Einstein Jerry Bovee, Beth Ann hadn't won very many games the previous season, and shockingly, she didn't win much this year either. She is still at Weber. Quite the athletic director this Bovee character is. Maybe if he spent more time actually leading and building than constantly talking about how great he is the programs would be better.

Beth Ann Ord is just a start for the Bovee. He has kept an incompetent marketing director, even giving him a raise last year and the guy is a total joke. You can't expect much of a change to happen here at the Weber as long as Bovee is running the show. Don't even get me started with the Wildcat Club and supposed coaches luncheons. The problem stems from Bovee not Rahe.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Fun discussion!

I just doubt Bovee making any moves. The guy resigned a terrible women's coach because she won more games throughout her current tenure here at Weber this year than all of the previous seasons combined.

News flash Einstein Jerry Bovee, Beth Ann hadn't won very many games the previous season, and shockingly, she didn't win much this year either. She is still at Weber. Quite the athletic director this Bovee character is. Maybe if he spent more time actually leading and building than constantly talking about how great he is the programs would be better.

Beth Ann Ord is just a start for the Bovee. He has kept an incompetent marketing director, even giving him a raise last year and the guy is a total joke. You can't expect much of a change to happen here at the Weber as long as Bovee is running the show. Don't even get me started with the Wildcat Club and supposed coaches luncheons. The problem stems from Bovee not Rahe.

Wow!!! Sad, you definitely aren't a fan of our AD. You might need to get your feelings resolved. Yikes!!

In all fairness, I think Jerry gets placed between a rock and a hard place too often. He ends up being the goat a lot. I really like Jerry. I'm sure he doesn't have the best opinion of me, but no matter, I think he is a good guy and a hard worker. Yes, I agree there are problems in the department but I think he will get them fixed with time. I trust in Jerry.

I definitely don't like the marketing either or some things about game prep and atmosphere (intro video should have past highlights leading up to the current players...who wouldn't want to watch Jimmy Dee hit that 40' against USU over and over again?).

I'm a fan of Jerry though. I hope you are reading this. I'm a fan!! Looooool

 

[weberwildcat]

Rahe's contract details in the public papers last listed it to expire July 1 2017.

10 yrs is the school record by macarthy. Rahe needs 18 wins next season to tie him for 200 wins which is the school record and I think it's #2 big sky.

Macarthy was a great coach for weber. He also had the worst season in wsu history, just 8 wins. It was his only bad season.

 

[Back2WSU]

In regards to Coach Ord, she was given a terrible program and she is turning it around. Replacing her at this point wouldn't help the team at all