Worst basketball season ever for Sac State?

[StungAlum]

Its painful to watch the games, read the articles, hear the jokes about the basketball team. The problem with having losing athletic programs is that they give the university a bad name, there are lots of people that associate a university's athletic achievement with everything else the school has to offer. Being as how the university in question is in Sacramento, the mecca of bandwagon and fair weather fans, how is the basketball team going affect the universities ability to recruit quality players/students?

I think, and it's only my opinion mind you, that Katz hasnt showed much promise. Sure, he inherited an awful team, old run-down gymnasium, and an unsupportive community, but is that any excuse to have a season like this? It truly pains me to speak ill of any aspect of Sac State, but I'm tired of the losing tradition that some of the athletic teams have. Katz sure seemed like the right guy during the interviews, he's disciplined, a teacher, a mentor, and a liason to the players. But what happened!? With all the great attribute's that Katz posseses, why cant he win?

One can always say that he didnt have much time to recruit, he had to settle for JC players. Sure, that has some bearing on the outcome of the season, most of the guy's on the team are new. But, this is Division I mens basketball and it is Katz' responsibility to produce recruits, NO MATTER WHAT the circumsatnces are, that can make the team competitive! It's his job.

Lets beat that dog, its been dead for a while, but lets beat it some more! Where's the arena, wheres the fan/alumni support? How can we expect a new arena to house what can arguably be one of, if not the worst, mens college basketball teams in the country, for two years running!

Thanks for reading my rant, I'm going to go take a prozac now.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

No need for Prozac. I've given up long ago, if something happens surprise me.

I think we should have won at least three games by now, even if we have subpar facilities, players, support, etc.

I really, really, really would like for us to discontinue both basketball programs. We are the Savannah State of the West.

Maybe Katz isn't the messiah that everyone had said he would be?

If Portland, Cal Poly, Northridge, etc. can have respectable programs, why can't we?

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Because it took PSU, Poly and even CSN to develop with good coaches to get their programs where they are. We are not going to ever dismantle basketball. Hell, we are not even the Savannah State of the west. Im sorry GCM, but that analogy is wrong and hurtful.

Yes losing sucks. But we are competitive. We are starting to play fundamental basketball. Look, the biggest hit after firing Jerome was Vinnie McGhee leaving. He had too many guys tell him that he needed to get out. If he had stayed, I think we would have had a couple of more wins. We don't have a point guard right now. Pure and simple. If we did, the way Eller and even Adams have been playing in the post lately, we should have at least 4-5 wins at this point. Marcial is not as good as Fresno City College advertised him to be. I bet the next recruit Katz goes after is a HS point guard.

One more thing Stung, you alluded that its Katz' responsibility to produce recruits. He had basically no time at all. He had 3 weeks. Plus he had to hire a staff during that time and evaluate those who were eligible to return and then at the last possible moment, McGhee announced he was leaving. You have to write off this season as the basis. If we get somehow to 5 wins, that will be amazing, and who knows, right now, ISU and NAU are both just as bad as we are. ISU is nothing but windbag hype and NAU lost everyone and now Adras is showing what kind of coach he really is.

This is not the worst. I sat through those Newman and Abatemarco teams.....you want to talk about the worst, look no further than those two clowns!

 

[superhornet]

I'm siding with SHA here. Based on what I saw at Delta, I conclude that we have to give Katz time to work his magic. And magic he has.

In fact, I'm myopic enough to think that he's going to get things turned around during conference. Well enough to make the conference tournament and maybe even make some noise there.

Look for Sac to face UOP in the first round of the NCAAs in roughly 2011.

 

[StungAlum]

I disagree, positive results are needed now. Unfortunately Katz inherited a program that has faced year after year of bad coaching and very poor recruitment.

As far as the team turning the tide during conference play, I hope so, but I doubt it. There have been a few games this season that were very winnable, at least they seemed to be. The team keeps disappointing everyone, sure its great that theyre "leraning," but for some people thats just not good enough. They need to start winning and doing it now, theres no excuse for the play so far this season.

Like I said in my previous post, the success of a universities athletic teams play a HUGE part in the communities perception and respect for the university! Im tired of hearing, "theyre in a rebuilding stage," people have been saying that for 20 years! Im sick of it! Stop it!

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

SHA sorry to have offended you, Stung, I feel your pain.

DI basketball is different than JC BB. Katz is in a quick learning curve in addition to a crappy situation with new, old, injured, skip town players, a gym worthy of an Alfred Hitchcock movie and opening conference play against the conference champ. Who by the way also play in a HS gym.

I've been hearing this &%$@ since 1987. I agree with Stung. The public face of any institution of higher learning is it's athletic teams. Except maybe MIT, CAL Tech and others.

The biggest public relations 800lb/ gorilla on the back of Sac State is the lack of success of the marquee sports: football and men's basketball. And the lack of facilities and amenities that draw recruits and fans.

The Broad was a start, but where is anything related to a better basketball facility on campus? And to a lesser degree the erector set stadium. If you can't fund/build it, say so in a press conference. Don't keep everyone guessing and hoping.

I know the administration's game, in six years the students who voted and passed a tax for a new arena will be gone, Who is going to fight this legacy tax? The new Rec center will appease 90% of the general student population, why would they fight for an athletic arena?

With the budget, economy and lack of public communication by the administration on the subject, I bet it will be another 22 years before anything is done to address this situation.

In the end it won't be Katz's fault.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Well I wasn't offended, but wrong and hurtful was not the right analogy (maybe I started drinking early in the day yesterday ;-) ).

I don't disagree with both of you about the arena issue. It sucks royal you know what going into the Nest night after night. I wholeheartedly agree. I really put the issues of the season clearly on Jenkins, who basically did his best to bring down the program the last two years. He recruited some very questionable players (Groce, Alamo, Alonzo Young, etc) and look where we are at? Somehow we got lucky in getting McGhee, but that is now a bust. Ever since we got to 13-5 and 4-0 in the Big Sky three years ago, we have gone 17-65 overall, 8-34 in the Big Sky. Where we are at today is clearly on the shoulders of one Jerome Jenkins.

Its going to take Brian Katz a while to clean up the milk that Jenkins spilt....................

 

[weberwildcat]

Losing McGee - the freshman of the year last year and honorable mention all-big sky hurts, but I think the new coach will need a few years to get something going. Even what Jerome did took a few years, the only problem was he couldn't keep it going after 2005.

Personally I think the Sac administration needs to really try and get a new arena which will help for a legit program. Putting up more money for coaching...is that an issue? I see Sac is good or ok in every sport minus bball.

We can watch U of Portland and see what happens. They were a joke and now have a new stadium, second yr I believe. If they start getting good then that tells me a new facility is a big factor in pushing a program upward...especially for recruting.


I really hope this isn't another 1998 - Sac went 0-16 and 1-25 overall. Who was the 1 win?


Holy crap!!! I didn't notice ur entire roster is JC's!!! No wonder you are wanting results now and not content with waiting a few years, I'd be the same way!!

 

[The Green Hornet]

To weberwildcat: Reference the Univ of Portland Pilots now playing well because of their "new arena", that won't fly because The Chiles Center was built in 1984 and the Pilots haven't shown much since then although the arena is beautiful and holds nearly 5,000. They've had a few coaching changes too and may now be on track though or at least competitive. It takes a lot more than having a nice place to play in.

I was at the Sac St/Portland St game tonight and PSU has a very good team and had us down by 19, but the Hornets got it down to 7 late in the game before losing by 12. We don't give up and the only thing we can do is to keep trying to get better. It's way to early to judge coach Katz' success or failure on half a season in his very first year of Division One hoops playing with a team that only has a couple of guys that have played with each other before. I'll be concerned if we're not any better two years from now. Regardless, I'll be at every game.

 

[williestarbuck]

To say Jenkins was a poor recruiter and then throw out a few names doesn't prove a point. McGhee (Freshmen of the Year), Jason Harris (Newcomer of the Year and Big Sky Preseason MVP), Deshawn Freeman, Jameel Pugh, Joel Jones, Joe Dawson, Alex Bausley, all first or second team all Big Sky conference players. Does any of these names sound familiar? I think Jenkins was a very good recruiter. He wasn't much of an X and O's coach in my opinion, but then he didn't cost the university much in salary so I think we got more return than what we paid for. Wanless has to be as much to blame for Jenkins lack of success as the past 2 seasons Jenkins himself. There was obviously no chemistry between the 2 and I'm sure Wanless did as little as possible to help move the program forward under Jenkins' watch. As for Katz, it's too early to judge. Conference just started. But it doesn't look good. 1 and 13 and no close loses isn't encouraging at all. But he's done a masterful job of keeping the team encouraged and positive. Katz was hired late but there were a lot of good recruits still uncommitted. I'm sure he'll have better recruitment classes, but he could have brought in at least 1 recruit that could help the team right away. Right now, Adams, Eller and Leath--all Jenkins--are providing the offense and I'm just hoping Flaggs and Edwards can continue to develop. I believe Jenkins iwas good recruiter. Maybe a better recruiter than he was a coach. How about this scenerio: Katz comes in as HC and Jenkins moved to assistant HC. Katz focus on local talent (which I don't believe there is that much) and Jenkins in charge of recruiting outside the area. The benefit, we get an X and O's coach, Wanless is on the hook by selecting him, and we have Jenkin's link to recruiting some athlets...My prediction for this season--pain.

 

[Hammerhead Dad]

Do you really think Jenkins would stay on the staff as assistant HC after being the HC? C'mon, get real. Has that ever happened in the history of college or professional basketball? Maybe, but I've never heard of it. Jenkins was a decent recruiter, but he couldn't coach for beans.

Katz is a good coach. He'll turn it around, but you can't write him off yet. Way to early to say anything at this point.

The football team was very competitive and I would say successful this year and I bet the basketball team will improve next year, and perhaps even this year, as well.

And if you can't handle it, well, go back to the Kings games everybody. :twisted: :roll:

 

[williestarbuck]

I was only half serious about that one, dude. But who knows, if Wanless wasn't such an a-hole...who knows. (You wouldn't not try something because you thought it had never been done before would you?) In any event, you can dislike the man, but his record speaks for itself. Obviously, the man wasn't a good X and O's coach, but just as apparent he was a good recruiter. As for Katz, no one expected 1 and 13 with no competitive losses. The critical side of me says, that aint good coaching. We've lost to Riverside, Bakersfield, Utah Valley, Southern Utah. We were unprepared for GW's pressure (that was bad coaching). Still, I think Katz deserves some time to figure out the DI talent level. I think he felt he had a good recruiting class, and that points to his inexperience knowing talent at this level. I don't buy the excues that he didn't have time, because a lot of recruiting was still going on when he came in. You're right, it's too early to judge whether or not Katz will be all you hoped he'd be. Time will tell on that one, and I hope you're right. I'm just not as optimistic. Everyone thinks he needs time, well for us Sac State fans, time we have plenty of.

 

[Kadeezy]

Today's game made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Today's game made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

Agreed.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Wish there was a provision from the NCAA that allowed programs to throw in the towel on the season and be rewarded by being able to recruit early.

davis must be a very bad bball team for us to have beat them so handily.

 

[bball06]

Look, everyone is really missing the point. This is Katz's first season with almost all of these players and these circumstances. I think that everyone was expecting a complete 180 and now they are disappointed. Here's the deal, Katz has been rebuilding this teams fundamentals, which they were clearly lacking under Jenkins. Has anyone noticed that every time the going gets tough during a game, they return back to what Jenkins taught them (or lack there of) and they play like chickens with their heads cut off...it is all they have known for the past 8 years. Sadly, it's still in their heads to play like that and are so used to losing. A winning program doesn't happen overnight, and neither does a decent program. Everyone needs to be patient and positive, even though the games are hard to watch, the articles hard to read, these players and the coaches need our support.

So, instead of bashing the beginnings of this program, maybe everyone should try harder to support our boys by going to the games and being positive. These things take time, just like Katz's success at Delta did.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Look, everyone is really missing the point. This is Katz's first season with almost all of these players and these circumstances. I think that everyone was expecting a complete 180 and now they are disappointed. Here's the deal, Katz has been rebuilding this teams fundamentals, which they were clearly lacking under Jenkins. Has anyone noticed that every time the going gets tough during a game, they return back to what Jenkins taught them (or lack there of) and they play like chickens with their heads cut off...it is all they have known for the past 8 years. Sadly, it's still in their heads to play like that and are so used to losing. A winning program doesn't happen overnight, and neither does a decent program. Everyone needs to be patient and positive, even though the games are hard to watch, the articles hard to read, these players and the coaches need our support.

So, instead of bashing the beginnings of this program, maybe everyone should try harder to support our boys by going to the games and being positive. These things take time, just like Katz's success at Delta did.

Agreed, and that's what I stated earlier. Yesterday's game was a prime example of what you said.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Katz has been rebuilding this teams fundamentals, which they were clearly lacking under Jenkins.

They need to keep working on it, three missed lay-up's? They should make EVERY free throw. If they are lacking offensively, why not take a gimme?

Katz has a good pedigree, time will tell if he is the key here. DI requirements with sub-par facilities is much different than JC.

Not to love on Jenkins, but he did make the tourney and he had some good players.

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Not to love on Jenkins, but he did make the tourney and he had some good players.

Yeah, but that did not happen until his third season though....and back then Hornet fans were saying in his first year that it would take time to overcome all of Abatemarco's disasters.....


BTW, my 500th post here at the 'ole Buzz

 

[williestarbuck]

I'm not lovin on Jenkins either, but it's definitely not fair to blame 1 and 14 on him by saying he's so deep rooted undiscipline play in the 3 players he coached that Katz is using that it's affected the whole team, most of which didn't even play under him. That's ridiclous. You take away Adams, Leath and Eller and what have you got? Beyond those 3 this is just not a talented team and no amount of fundamentals is going to change that. That's not to say Katz is not going to be successful eventually. He might. But he's gonna need players. Period. Maybe he's 3 years away. Fine. It's obviously not going to happen over night. It's clear will have to suffer through him getting past the learning curve. Just keep it real. This year is going to be the worse basketball season ever. And next year isn't going to be much better with only Eller returning. Fundamentals is great, but if he doesn't go out and recruit, we'll be 1 and whatever all over again.