Golden1 Arena???

Talk about Hornet and College Basketball
BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Golden1 Arena???

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Thu Aug 06, 2015 11:33 pm

With a state-of-the-art downtown arena opening next year, is there any chance the Hornets could try to capitalize by trying to setup a game or two a year there against a name D1 FBS opponent?

For example, the Hornets play @ Stanford next season and have played @UCLA in the recent past. If they could schedule either team for a return game at Golden1, it could draw reasonably well. There is obviously a lot of local interest in a program like Stanford and the ability to see big time college programs in their own backyard would likely interest many. I wouldn't think 10,000+ fans would be a stretch at all, even if the Hornets are a sacrificial lamb.

While you hate to lose the home court advantage the Nest often provides, it might be nice to get the additional exposure playing a game in that venue could provide. It could also assist in recruiting, as well as local fan interest, even if their isn't much $$ to be gained after the cost offset to rent the place.

Thoughts?

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SDHornet » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:39 am

I agree, and I’ve been saying this in all the event center threads. Not sure if 10k would show up, but I agree Katz/Macriss should leverage G1 Arena for a home and “home” agreement with P12/MWC teams as I think they would draw well. I’d go even if it were a mid-week game. Could probably also get them on TV.
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

greenarmy.fh
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:22 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by greenarmy.fh » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:14 pm

BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:With a state-of-the-art downtown arena opening next year, is there any chance the Hornets could try to capitalize by trying to setup a game or two a year there against a name D1 FBS opponent?

For example, the Hornets play @ Stanford next season and have played @UCLA in the recent past. If they could schedule either team for a return game at Golden1, it could draw reasonably well. There is obviously a lot of local interest in a program like Stanford and the ability to see big time college programs in their own backyard would likely interest many. I wouldn't think 10,000+ fans would be a stretch at all, even if the Hornets are a sacrificial lamb.

While you hate to lose the home court advantage the Nest often provides, it might be nice to get the additional exposure playing a game in that venue could provide. It could also assist in recruiting, as well as local fan interest, even if their isn't much $$ to be gained after the cost offset to rent the place.

Thoughts?
I would absolutely LOVE to see the Hornerts and coach Katz host a team in the Golden 1 center. But there are a few obstacles that will/should prevent that from happening.
1. A Pac12 or high level MWC team doesnt like to travel to a school from a lower level conference. Money and funding for school like UCLA or Standford is not a concern for their athletic program. Even school like UNLV and SanDiego State do not do away games for money. The ONLY reason why they play Sac State is to use the game as a scrimmage before playing extremely difficult conference games. Therefore, it's not worth their time to travel to Sac State for a little chump change.
2. Unless Sac State reach and SUSTAIN the level of success it had in the past year, they will have a hard time scheduling and high level conference team at home.


SOLUTION:
Sac State should host an early season tournament like this year but at a grander scale. Invinting multiple Power 5 teams to attend. Also, sign a t.v deal for the tournament. This is the only way that a P5 team would come to the Golden 1 center. And the university can name the tournament something like "The Capital Classic". :mrgreen:

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:26 pm

SDHornet wrote:Not sure if 10k would show up
You really don't believe there would be enough local interest in a team like Stanford or UCLA?

Specifically the 1st time or two, I think there would be enough intrigue to draw that type of attendance figure simply because NCAA basketball fans that normally would have to drive 4+ hours round trip to see a D1 FBS program would have the convenience of doing so in the their own backyard. The fact that it never happens would also be part of the appeal. This is a sports hungry town and the opportunity to see a legit and well known program would be appealing to many.

I don't recall what the attendance figures were the first couple years that ARCO hosted the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, but I believe it was fairly respectable and that was largely for out of market teams and players nobody knew.

I think the Hornets would easily draw 2-3K on their own. I could see another 7K turnout consisting of Stanford/UCLA fans, avid NCAA fans in general, and the casual fan drawn to see a big time program in a state-of-the-art facility. Heck, Hornet Stadium drew 21K+ for a high school football game back in 2010.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:51 pm

FWIW, I was attempting to do a little research to find out what the attendance figures were like for the 1st couple of years ARCO hosted the NCAA tourney and stumbled across this instead. It wasn't for March Madness, but, instead, the Sacramento Holiday Classic hosted at ARCO back on December 29, 1994. Sac State v. Pacfic didn't draw well, but I believe the Hornets were still D2 back then and certainly weren't facing a big time opponent.
In a mismatch of mythic proportions, the Hoyas hounded and pounded Fairfield 87-42 to claim the title of the Sacramento Holiday Classic before an Arco Arena crowd of 8,190.

With Georgetown as the headliner, the Hornets attracted 17,179 to the two-day event at Arco Arena.

"We are ecstatic," McElroy said. "It exceeded our expectations. We projected 6,000 a night and averaged 8,500. We talked to the coaches, athletes and fans, and everybody seemed to enjoy the event.
If an East Coast program and a school nobody really knows could draw 8,190 back in 1994, I feel fairly confident about the 10K number if it involves Stanford, UCLA, or USC.

User avatar
SJHornet
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SJHornet » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:36 am

BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:
SDHornet wrote:Not sure if 10k would show up
You really don't believe there would be enough local interest in a team like Stanford or UCLA?

Specifically the 1st time or two, I think there would be enough intrigue to draw that type of attendance figure simply because NCAA basketball fans that normally would have to drive 4+ hours round trip to see a D1 FBS program would have the convenience of doing so in the their own backyard. The fact that it never happens would also be part of the appeal. This is a sports hungry town and the opportunity to see a legit and well known program would be appealing to many.

I don't recall what the attendance figures were the first couple years that ARCO hosted the 1st round of the NCAA tournament, but I believe it was fairly respectable and that was largely for out of market teams and players nobody knew.

I think the Hornets would easily draw 2-3K on their own. I could see another 7K turnout consisting of Stanford/UCLA fans, avid NCAA fans in general, and the casual fan drawn to see a big time program in a state-of-the-art facility. Heck, Hornet Stadium drew 21K+ for a high school football game back in 2010.
I love the idea of hosting at Golden 1, but would have to say 10k for UCLA or Stanford is not a slam dunk (pun intended). UCLA has the name and history, but they aren't the force they once were, and Stanford would have a hard time drawing 10k at the SAP Center, 15 minutes away from their campus. Stanford has major attendance issues, even in PA, and are not a major brand that would draw the average fan. They are a known brand, but not a school that fans associate with. I have always felt the fact they are a private institution hurts them with the average Joe, despite the success they've had, and are a P5 school. Even in the South Bay, they are not a major player. More people may be interested in UCLA, but I couldn't begin to estimate the general college basketball interest Sacramento has, when it doesn't involve the tourney.

Negativity aside, a tournament could have the potential to draw well, and could aid the program's stature within the community. Even though I have doubts about Stanford and UCLA's ability to draw, they would still bring in a lot of fans. Personally, I've always liked the idea of hosting an early season California D1 tournament. Invite the Cali schools from the BWC, WCC and even Bake. I think there are enough grads of those institutions residing in the Sacramento area to draw well, and add general onlookers, basketball fans and those who would simply like to see and experience the arena without going to a Kings game. Then again, it also has the recipe to be an unmitigated disaster.

I think another reason we need to look at booking some games downtown would be to show we really could use an on-campus events center. If we only draw a few thousand, it doesn't bode well for our insistence on building a 5-8k seat arena of our own. Maybe we'll need to scale our project down to a 3-4k seat building.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:31 pm

Again, I repeat, Georgetown v. Fairfield drew 8,190 --- 21 years ago.

Georgetown.
Fairfield.
21 years ago.

Let that soak in for a minute.

It doesn't matter what Stanford draws for their home games. We're talking about Sacramento, where 20,000 turn out AAA soccer. Where AAA baseball draws better than anywhere else in the country. Where marquee high school football games draw anywhere from 10 - 22k.

Population has risen significantly since 1994. The Hornets aren't D2 as they were in '94. The opponent doesn't have to be Stanford or UCLA, but those programs are certainly more popular here than Georgetown and Fairfield or any of the other programs that drew 17k+ over 2 days back in 1994. Lastly, they'd be playing in a state-of-the-art facility.

In short, take all factors from 1994 that resulted in 8,190 for a single game and up the ante on all of them.

Logic should tell you that not only is 10k a reasonable expectation - but a higher turnout wouldn't be a huge surprise. I get than the Hornets themselves don't draw well, but who the hell knew who Fairfield was? Georgetown was certainly a popular name at the time, but not North Carolina, Duke, Norte Dame, or UCLA popular. Get a name program and it will draw extremely well. I named Stanford and UCLA because they have played the Hornets recently and are realistic big names to be had.

Lastly, rather than a single game scheduled between the Hornets and an FBS program, I like the idea of a tournament similar to the one from 1994. They could get a couple of name teams, along with the Hornets and say Davis. Maybe a West Coast Christmas Classic? Stanford, Cal, Davis, Sac St., Gonzaga, UCLA just to name a few.

User avatar
SJHornet
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SJHornet » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:39 pm

BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:Again, I repeat, Georgetown v. Fairfield drew 8,190 --- 21 years ago.

Georgetown.
Fairfield.
21 years ago.

Let that soak in for a minute.

It doesn't matter what Stanford draws for their home games. We're talking about Sacramento, where 20,000 turn out AAA soccer. Where AAA baseball draws better than anywhere else in the country. Where marquee high school football games draw anywhere from 10 - 22k.

Population has risen significantly since 1994. The Hornets aren't D2 as they were in '94. The opponent doesn't have to be Stanford or UCLA, but those programs are certainly more popular here than Georgetown and Fairfield or any of the other programs that drew 17k+ over 2 days back in 1994. Lastly, they'd be playing in a state-of-the-art facility.

In short, take all factors from 1994 that resulted in 8,190 for a single game and up the ante on all of them.

Logic should tell you that not only is 10k a reasonable expectation - but a higher turnout wouldn't be a huge surprise. I get than the Hornets themselves don't draw well, but who the hell knew who Fairfield was? Georgetown was certainly a popular name at the time, but not North Carolina, Duke, Norte Dame, or UCLA popular. Get a name program and it will draw extremely well. I named Stanford and UCLA because they have played the Hornets recently and are realistic big names to be had.

Lastly, rather than a single game scheduled between the Hornets and an FBS program, I like the idea of a tournament similar to the one from 1994. They could get a couple of name teams, along with the Hornets and say Davis. Maybe a West Coast Christmas Classic? Stanford, Cal, Davis, Sac St., Gonzaga, UCLA just to name a few.
If I may continue to play devil's advocate :twisted: , 1994 was during the height of Georgetown's popularity, and the Hoyas were NCAA royalty. Even I had Hoyas apparel, even though I probably had no clue what city they played in, or what a Hoya was (My 7th grade science teacher actually had a long discussion with our entire class about this topic, as we all wore Georgetown stuff, but had no clue about the school itself. We all just liked winning basketball, and the stuff rappers wore). The '94 Hoya team also had mega-star-in-the-making Allen Iverson on the squad. What I'm saying is it would be like hosting a Fairfield vs. Kentucky game today.

That being said, Sacramento is a large city with a diverse population, and with proper marketing, I could see a nice turnout. However, with the marketing we've had so far, I wonder what it would look like. And as Sacramento has shown a keen interest in professional sports, we have yet to see the same passion translate to the college ranks. I've argued any times on this board and others that Sacramento is a sleeping giant when it comes to D1 sports, but it needs a proper program to attach itself to. I love the idea of a Christmas classic, and think it could be a major success for the program and new arena. We need to get our brand out there more, and I'm hoping the Golden 1 is a tool we can properly utilize.

BuckeyeHornetFan
Posts: 314
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by BuckeyeHornetFan » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:48 pm

SJHornet wrote:
BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:I've argued any times on this board and others that Sacramento is a sleeping giant when it comes to D1 sports, but it needs a proper program to attach itself to. I love the idea of a Christmas classic, and think it could be a major success for the program and new arena. We need to get our brand out there more, and I'm hoping the Golden 1 is a tool we can properly utilize.
Amen.

Super Hornet
Admin
Posts: 2441
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:48 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by Super Hornet » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:30 pm

Query: If the NCAAT were to be held at the new arena, would we be guaranteed as hosts? I seem to remember several times during the various incarnations of what is now Sleep Train Arena where UOP hosted there.

Doesn't make much sense. But that's the history. Can we convince the NCAA to let Sac host vice UOP? It would be nice....

User avatar
SJHornet
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:37 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SJHornet » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:03 pm

Super Hornet wrote:Query: If the NCAAT were to be held at the new arena, would we be guaranteed as hosts? I seem to remember several times during the various incarnations of what is now Sleep Train Arena where UOP hosted there.

Doesn't make much sense. But that's the history. Can we convince the NCAA to let Sac host vice UOP? It would be nice....
The host is determined by the bid. UOP assisted/spearheaded the previous bids, thus, were the hosts. We assisted the city and other partner this last round, and will be the hosts in 2017.

Green Laser
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by Green Laser » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:22 pm

SJHornet wrote:
Super Hornet wrote:Query: If the NCAAT were to be held at the new arena, would we be guaranteed as hosts? I seem to remember several times during the various incarnations of what is now Sleep Train Arena where UOP hosted there.

Doesn't make much sense. But that's the history. Can we convince the NCAA to let Sac host vice UOP? It would be nice....
The host is determined by the bid. UOP assisted/spearheaded the previous bids, thus, were the hosts. We assisted the city and other partner this last round, and will be the hosts in 2017.
Also UOP was the host of the old tournaments at ARCO because Sac State was D2 at the time.

josephpoint
Posts: 1016
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:03 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by josephpoint » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:15 pm

Believe people would turn out indeed given a big time opponent that would get the community excited about. Did not UC Davis sell out last year when the U Conn women came to Davis? Would assume the same thing would happen for us in the new downtown arena. Big Sky opponents would not draw unless the Hornets started to win the conference title year in and year out. And we still have yet to win even one title..close but .... The new arena would be an amazing home court 5 miles from campus but we are in the Big Sky so it is all about pre conference big time teams coming to town at this point for the downtown arena to be a great home court for Sac State.

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SDHornet » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:11 am

SJHornet wrote:
BuckeyeHornetFan wrote:Again, I repeat, Georgetown v. Fairfield drew 8,190 --- 21 years ago.

Georgetown.
Fairfield.
21 years ago.

Let that soak in for a minute.

It doesn't matter what Stanford draws for their home games. We're talking about Sacramento, where 20,000 turn out AAA soccer. Where AAA baseball draws better than anywhere else in the country. Where marquee high school football games draw anywhere from 10 - 22k.

Population has risen significantly since 1994. The Hornets aren't D2 as they were in '94. The opponent doesn't have to be Stanford or UCLA, but those programs are certainly more popular here than Georgetown and Fairfield or any of the other programs that drew 17k+ over 2 days back in 1994. Lastly, they'd be playing in a state-of-the-art facility.

In short, take all factors from 1994 that resulted in 8,190 for a single game and up the ante on all of them.

Logic should tell you that not only is 10k a reasonable expectation - but a higher turnout wouldn't be a huge surprise. I get than the Hornets themselves don't draw well, but who the hell knew who Fairfield was? Georgetown was certainly a popular name at the time, but not North Carolina, Duke, Norte Dame, or UCLA popular. Get a name program and it will draw extremely well. I named Stanford and UCLA because they have played the Hornets recently and are realistic big names to be had.

Lastly, rather than a single game scheduled between the Hornets and an FBS program, I like the idea of a tournament similar to the one from 1994. They could get a couple of name teams, along with the Hornets and say Davis. Maybe a West Coast Christmas Classic? Stanford, Cal, Davis, Sac St., Gonzaga, UCLA just to name a few.
If I may continue to play devil's advocate :twisted: , 1994 was during the height of Georgetown's popularity, and the Hoyas were NCAA royalty. Even I had Hoyas apparel, even though I probably had no clue what city they played in, or what a Hoya was (My 7th grade science teacher actually had a long discussion with our entire class about this topic, as we all wore Georgetown stuff, but had no clue about the school itself. We all just liked winning basketball, and the stuff rappers wore). The '94 Hoya team also had mega-star-in-the-making Allen Iverson on the squad. What I'm saying is it would be like hosting a Fairfield vs. Kentucky game today.

That being said, Sacramento is a large city with a diverse population, and with proper marketing, I could see a nice turnout. However, with the marketing we've had so far, I wonder what it would look like. And as Sacramento has shown a keen interest in professional sports, we have yet to see the same passion translate to the college ranks. I've argued any times on this board and others that Sacramento is a sleeping giant when it comes to D1 sports, but it needs a proper program to attach itself to. I love the idea of a Christmas classic, and think it could be a major success for the program and new arena. We need to get our brand out there more, and I'm hoping the Golden 1 is a tool we can properly utilize.
Yup, I was just looking at that. Georgetown was a household name at the time (maybe they kinda still are), have always been a consistent NCAAT participant, G-Town was a perennial Big East contender in the early 90’s, entered the 94-95 season ranked 14th and were 12th (5-1) heading into that game in Sac…and of course had Allen Iverson leading the team that season. I guess today’s regional equivalent of that G-Town team would be Gonzaga or UCLA. A game featuring that level of a program would draw well, not sure it would hit 10k though.

Also agree about Sac latching onto pro sports but not college. This city is desperate/enthusiastic for pro sports, that same vigor remains to be seen for the college game.
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SDHornet » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:59 am

greenarmy.fh wrote: I would absolutely LOVE to see the Hornerts and coach Katz host a team in the Golden 1 center. But there are a few obstacles that will/should prevent that from happening.
1. A Pac12 or high level MWC team doesnt like to travel to a school from a lower level conference. Money and funding for school like UCLA or Standford is not a concern for their athletic program. Even school like UNLV and SanDiego State do not do away games for money. The ONLY reason why they play Sac State is to use the game as a scrimmage before playing extremely difficult conference games. Therefore, it's not worth their time to travel to Sac State for a little chump change.
2. Unless Sac State reach and SUSTAIN the level of success it had in the past year, they will have a hard time scheduling and high level conference team at home.
1) The pitch on playing the Hornets in G1A isn’t for money; it’s about a recruiting trip to the Sac. A program that comes to mind is Steve Fisher at SDSU. He landed some top Sac area talent in the past and I would like to believe he would be open to a home and “home” agreement with the return game for Sac being played on a neutral court, state of the art NBA arena.
2) Agree, but ironically the Hornets not being a top mid-major probably helps them with attracting a notable opponent. No power team wants to play on the road and risk a loss, but a short road trip to a talent rich area to play on a neutral court against a historically bad program? The benefits appear to outweigh the risks in that scenario.
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

User avatar
Kadeezy
Posts: 2475
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:00 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by Kadeezy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:42 am

I discussed the G1A option with a contact of mine who said Hornet games will never take place there. We don't have the budget to host a special tourney or even single games against marquee opponents. The numbers just don't work - unless Vivek and Co. cut us a huge break. Our only shot was to have something written into the agreement when the arena deal was going down. And now that Reno is the BSCT location, that eliminates the possibility of hosting the tourney there too...
Image

User avatar
SDHornet
Moderator
Posts: 5081
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by SDHornet » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:11 pm

Did your contact tell you what the cost would be to host an event there?
"I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast." W.C. Fields

Green Laser
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:16 pm

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by Green Laser » Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:25 pm

Considering all of the effort and investment that the city has in this project I would expect some outreach to the community. If they had the old tournament at Arco, I don' see why this would be any different.
Supposedly the Arena is to benefit the entire Sacramento community not just the billionaire owners of the Kings. At least that's how it was sold.

User avatar
Kadeezy
Posts: 2475
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:00 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by Kadeezy » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:06 pm

SDHornet wrote:Did your contact tell you what the cost would be to host an event there?
Cost would vary based on the level of service (# of tix).... There's parking attendants, security, concessions, ushers, vendors, check-in table staff, multimedia and production staff, overhead, cleaning services, etc.

In a new arena... Looking at $50,000 to $125,000 just to open the doors for a day. Average NBA Team makes about $1,000,000 just in ticket sales each night. We'd have to sell 8,333 $15 tickets just to break even.
Image

peegeepee
Posts: 456
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 10:58 am

Re: Golden1 Arena???

Post by peegeepee » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:41 pm

Based on that math I'd say go for it...we don't necessarily have to make a profit although it would be nice...get the product in view and then look to possibly make a profit...with the right teams a 8,300 gate is attainable...

Post Reply