Another fluffy pancake hits the plate

[Webergrad02]

Brandon's story this morning was good, but it didn't tell us anything that you wouldn't find on this forum. I just wish we could get a little more information out of coach.

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2015/07/14/WSU-hoops-roster-solidified-for-upcoming-season.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tal brings up some interesting questions on the recruiting thread that could have been answered in this story.
Does our LOI hold up for next year on Nzekwesi?
Can he be recruited by other schools while in prep school?
Are we committed to giving him a schollie or can we change our minds?

The story does say that, "The coaching staff has high expectations for Nzekwesi, and hopes to resolve the issue in time for him to join the team in one year’s time." So I think we are pursuing him. It would be nice to know some more information.

It would have been nice to know if coach plans to use any redshirts this season. I know that he wouldn't mention any players by name but it would be good to know what the plan is. We have a lot of guards on the roster.

He mentions that coach thinks the chemistry is better and I hope he is correct. I am just waiting for our next light and fluffy pancake to hit the plate in a few weeks when we release the schedule. Tal please pass the syrup, we need to give this thing some flavor.

 

[SWeberCat02]

Most of this is old news to us. This forum is still the best place for info.

Kiko sounds like a big gamble. The staff hasn't even seen him in person. Sounds like desperation to me.

 

[Webergrad02]

This tells me that so much rides on our redshirt freshman center. We have little depth down low and we took a player without seeing him in person. I hope Mr. Braxton is ready for having a major role on this team.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Brandon's story this morning was good, but it didn't tell us anything that you wouldn't find on this forum. I just wish we could get a little more information out of coach.

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2015/07/14/WSU-hoops-roster-solidified-for-upcoming-season.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tal brings up some interesting questions on the recruiting thread that could have been answered in this story.
Does our LOI hold up for next year on Nzekwesi?
Can he be recruited by other schools while in prep school?
Are we committed to giving him a schollie or can we change our minds?

The story does say that, "The coaching staff has high expectations for Nzekwesi, and hopes to resolve the issue in time for him to join the team in one year’s time." So I think we are pursuing him. It would be nice to know some more information.

It would have been nice to know if coach plans to use any redshirts this season. I know that he wouldn't mention any players by name but it would be good to know what the plan is. We have a lot of guards on the roster.

He mentions that coach thinks the chemistry is better and I hope he is correct. I am just waiting for our next light and fluffy pancake to hit the plate in a few weeks when we release the schedule. Tal please pass the syrup, we need to give this thing some flavor.

:rofl: :thumb:

Agreed!! Garside is a good dude. I really like him, but he just doesn't get it. His questions are like slow pitch soft-ball to a major leaguer. I wonder if Coach :roll: whenever Garside comes around. I'm just happy that the Standard finally had a story about Weber State Sports. Right now would be a great time to talk football, but...

From what I understand, in regards to Nzekwesi, he can definitely reopen his recruitment. I don't know why anyone would go after him, especially since he doesn't qualify, but you never know. There are other schools who have congressional support that Weber just doesn't get. I mean Rob Bishop and Chris Stewart are our guys...can you think of a worse duo to help get an immigrant to Weber for Basketball?? As for Weber being on the hook to grant him a scholarship in the future, the program is not, since he didn't qualify, required to grant him a scholarship. Doesn't mean that Coach should just drop him. He is getting another year of basketball in without burning any eligibility or his red shirt. Huge bonus for the Cats, if we can keep him in line for becoming a Wildcat.

 

[oldrunner]

I've thought about this quite a bit over the past few decades. I'm coming down on the side of the coaches and media on this one. First off, the coach is working with young men who deserve some respect and constraint from both the coach and the media. He is also trying to maintain a high level of motivation and investment from each and every one of his players. A coach must hold most of his feelings and evaluations in or risk losing the respect and motivation of his players. A miscalculated statement could ruin a season, a program, team chemistry, etc.

If you are the media guy, you don't want to be the one who contributes to that. You might have some inside information or you may have asked the tough question and had it answered, but do you put information into print that could harm individuals or a program?

There are reasons that we, as fans, only get the coach speak. That will not change. Accept it, and learn to read between the lines a little bit.

 

[WSUfan4ever]

I've thought about this quite a bit over the past few decades. I'm coming down on the side of the coaches and media on this one. First off, the coach is working with young men who deserve some respect and constraint from both the coach and the media. He is also trying to maintain a high level of motivation and investment from each and every one of his players. A coach must hold most of his feelings and evaluations in or risk losing the respect and motivation of his players. A miscalculated statement could ruin a season, a program, team chemistry, etc.

If you are the media guy, you don't want to be the one who contributes to that. You might have some inside information or you may have asked the tough question and had it answered, but do you put information into print that could harm individuals or a program?

There are reasons that we, as fans, only get the coach speak. That will not change. Accept it, and learn to read between the lines a little bit.

So you are saying the media should be an extension of the coaches? I personally believe there should be some level of separation and independence. That may not be the way this situation is working but I would rather hear unbiased news and views.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Brandon's story this morning was good, but it didn't tell us anything that you wouldn't find on this forum. I just wish we could get a little more information out of coach.

http://www.standard.net/Weber-State/2015/07/14/WSU-hoops-roster-solidified-for-upcoming-season.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tal brings up some interesting questions on the recruiting thread that could have been answered in this story.
Does our LOI hold up for next year on Nzekwesi?
Can he be recruited by other schools while in prep school?
Are we committed to giving him a schollie or can we change our minds?

The story does say that, "The coaching staff has high expectations for Nzekwesi, and hopes to resolve the issue in time for him to join the team in one year’s time." So I think we are pursuing him. It would be nice to know some more information.

It would have been nice to know if coach plans to use any redshirts this season. I know that he wouldn't mention any players by name but it would be good to know what the plan is. We have a lot of guards on the roster.

He mentions that coach thinks the chemistry is better and I hope he is correct. I am just waiting for our next light and fluffy pancake to hit the plate in a few weeks when we release the schedule. Tal please pass the syrup, we need to give this thing some flavor.

:rofl: :thumb:

Agreed!! Garside is a good dude. I really like him, but he just doesn't get it. His questions are like slow pitch soft-ball to a major leaguer. I wonder if Coach :roll: whenever Garside comes around. I'm just happy that the Standard finally had a story about Weber State Sports. Right now would be a great time to talk football, but...

From what I understand, in regards to Nzekwesi, he can definitely reopen his recruitment. I don't know why anyone would go after him, especially since he doesn't qualify, but you never know. There are other schools who have congressional support that Weber just doesn't get. I mean Rob Bishop and Chris Stewart are our guys...can you think of a worse duo to help get an immigrant to Weber for Basketball?? As for Weber being on the hook to grant him a scholarship in the future, the program is not, since he didn't qualify, required to grant him a scholarship. Doesn't mean that Coach should just drop him. He is getting another year of basketball in without burning any eligibility or his red shirt. Huge bonus for the Cats, if we can keep him in line for becoming a Wildcat.

Apparently I made a major gaffe. Please don't read into my above comment. Qualifying, according to the NCAA's definition, deals with academics, which isn't an issue for Nzekwesi. He is an incredibly good student and would be a major asset for the Cats and our basketball program. Just too bad that he won't be in Wildcat Purple this upcoming Fall. I hope he can get the issue, that is holding him back from being able to play DI basketball, ironed out and that he will be able to pursue his dream. I for one, want only the best for Nzekwesi and hope only the best for him in the future. What an absolutely great kid!! We are lucky that he originally chose to become a Wildcat!

On a side note, thank you to compliance for his always vigilant insight and support. He does a great job for us and our programs. :thumb:

 

[sacstateman]

I've thought about this quite a bit over the past few decades. I'm coming down on the side of the coaches and media on this one. First off, the coach is working with young men who deserve some respect and constraint from both the coach and the media. He is also trying to maintain a high level of motivation and investment from each and every one of his players. A coach must hold most of his feelings and evaluations in or risk losing the respect and motivation of his players. A miscalculated statement could ruin a season, a program, team chemistry, etc.

If you are the media guy, you don't want to be the one who contributes to that. You might have some inside information or you may have asked the tough question and had it answered, but do you put information into print that could harm individuals or a program?

There are reasons that we, as fans, only get the coach speak. That will not change. Accept it, and learn to read between the lines a little bit.

This sounds a bit like why we have Obama as president .....the press won't ask tough questions because they are afraid they will lose their access....A coach doesn't have to trash a player, but the reporters job is to try and get all the info he can.....A media guy can't (or shouldn't) report anything he doesn't get from the coaches mouth so I disagree with you in respect to what the medias obligation is...the coach just needs to be smart enough to answer questions tactfully to protect your players and program but the questions should still be asked...BTW, constraint from the media can be called censorship....do you want that too??

 

[Skippy]

".....A media guy can't (or shouldn't) report anything he doesn't get from the coaches mouth so I disagree with you in respect to what the medias obligation is..."

Say what? If the only information a reporter ever reported was what he or she got from the coach, well let's say you'd never hear ANY news. MOST real news comes from sources other than the coach -- the players, players' parents and friends, people on the periphery of the program, etc. A coach is only going to give the reporter what the coach wants to have known.

 

[sacstateman]

I guess we all should have listened to Ian Fox's supporters then huh??? A home town reporter shouldn't publish info that he can't substantiate through the coach's answers to questions the reporter should ask. If you publish everything you hear, you can and probably will do the harm to the program that oldrunner is talking about....if the coach is going to lie to the reporter when asked the tough questions then eventually that will come back on the coach's plate....some of the worst sources you can ever rely on are the periphery (hanger on wanttabes)...I have no problem with reporting what a player gives you because he is responsible for his own words....friends, periphery and parents I would be very leery of publishing what they want you to publish...that is worse than the cupcake reporting....just look back at the Ian Fox situation, where either a friend, a parent, or Ian himself dug a pretty deep hole that he couldn't get out of....

 

[Webergrad02]

I guess we all should have listened to Ian Fox's supporters then huh??? A home town reporter shouldn't publish info that he can't substantiate through the coach's answers to questions the reporter should ask. If you publish everything you hear, you can and probably will do the harm to the program that oldrunner is talking about....if the coach is going to lie to the reporter when asked the tough questions then eventually that will come back on the coach's plate....some of the worst sources you can ever rely on are the periphery (hanger on wanttabes)...I have no problem with reporting what a player gives you because he is responsible for his own words....friends, periphery and parents I would be very leery of publishing what they want you to publish...that is worse than the cupcake reporting....just look back at the Ian Fox situation, where either a friend, a parent, or Ian himself dug a pretty deep hole that he couldn't get out of....

No crappy 2 star recruit that only played in 3 games has ever been covered as much as Ian Fox. His legend won't ever go away. But a large part of that is the hype that was generated on the periphery.

But here is my biggest problem with our current beat writer. I gain nothing by reading his stories. They mirror exactly coaches post game remarks to Carl and Dutch. In our season ending loss to Montana, he missed the real story. He was busy playing the young and inexperienced card when he should have been talking about how Senglin took over the game after missing the last 5 weeks of the season. That game wasn't about youth and inexperience at all. To Brandon, Randy and Jay Hill are the coolest guys ever. I have heard that he says how fun they are to hang out with and they are his buddies. I just want a balanced story.

 

[oldrunner]

If you go back and read the article you will be able to see that the questions were asked and answered. The complaint that I was hearing from posters is that it seemed to be sugar coated or 'fluffy'. The reporter quoted the coach and the coach gave the proper, coach speak, answer. What the reporter didn't do was to restate the obvious in a more derogatory light, injecting his own opinion of what 'must' have transpired in the end of the season interviews. It seems that some of the posters on this board wanted a little more mud slung against the wall. I just don't see that as what sports journalists should be doing while reporting on college athletics.

If you want to be the D-bag to over dramatize the obvious, write a letter to the editor. If they print it, and that is not a sure bet, lets just see where it goes. Not to a good place, I'm guessing.

You all are acting like this is the Watergate Scandal or something.

 

[Skippy]

I guess we all should have listened to Ian Fox's supporters then huh??? A home town reporter shouldn't publish info that he can't substantiate through the coach's answers to questions the reporter should ask. If you publish everything you hear, you can and probably will do the harm to the program that oldrunner is talking about....if the coach is going to lie to the reporter when asked the tough questions then eventually that will come back on the coach's plate....some of the worst sources you can ever rely on are the periphery (hanger on wanttabes)...I have no problem with reporting what a player gives you because he is responsible for his own words....friends, periphery and parents I would be very leery of publishing what they want you to publish...that is worse than the cupcake reporting....just look back at the Ian Fox situation, where either a friend, a parent, or Ian himself dug a pretty deep hole that he couldn't get out of....

Ian Fox wasn't "covered" -- a friend or relative of his (presumably his father) posted on this and the ISU message boards, promoting his supposed skills and the immediate "impact" Ian Fox was going to make in the Big Sky. Once it became apparent that Ian wasn't going to be an immediate star (I think he missed the first 13 shots he took), that poster turned on Bill Evans and the ISU program and started posting extremely negative stuff on the ISU message board about the coaching staff. Ian announced shortly thereafter he was transferring.

There was NEVER a story in the Idaho media, or anywhere I could find, by an independent reporter hyping Ian Fox's talents to that level. He was barely mentioned in the Pocatello media when he signed, or in any pre-season stories.

A good reporter has to use all of his or her sources to paint a complete picture of a basketball program: coaches, players, those who see what's really going on at practice (since most teams now close practice to the media) like managers, assistant coaches, trainers, etc. Many of these sources will not be directly quoted -- they will provide off-the-record information that fills in a picture of what's REALLY going on within a program. It's then up to the reporter to find on the-record sources to corroborate what he's hearing -- or, in rare cases, to use those "unnamed sources" quotes we all hate, but which are occasionally necessary to get a set of facts into the record.

An independent reporter won't -- and shouldn't -- care about "doing damage" to a program. Rather, they SHOULD care deeply about painting as accurate a picture as possible about the program, being fair to those he or she is reporting about, and not going out of their way to be "sensational." In other words, using good judgement on what they report on and how they report it.

 

[Webergrad02]

If you go back and read the article you will be able to see that the questions were asked and answered. The complaint that I was hearing from posters is that it seemed to be sugar coated or 'fluffy'. The reporter quoted the coach and the coach gave the proper, coach speak, answer. What the reporter didn't do was to restate the obvious in a more derogatory light, injecting his own opinion of what 'must' have transpired in the end of the season interviews. It seems that some of the posters on this board wanted a little more mud slung against the wall. I just don't see that as what sports journalists should be doing while reporting on college athletics.

If you want to be the D-bag to over dramatize the obvious, write a letter to the editor. If they print it, and that is not a sure bet, lets just see where it goes. Not to a good place, I'm guessing.

You all are acting like this is the Watergate Scandal or something.

That is not what I am saying at all. Brandon only gives the one side in every story he writes. There were several unanswered questions this year. He continued to just publish stuff about our youth and inexperience. The teams issues were much deeper than that.

In this particular story, I think there could have been some follow up questions on the Nzekwesi situation. We don't know what happens when a player signs a LOI and then can't get a VISA cleared. It would be nice to know what the player and our obligations are in the future. We haven't had a situation like this in the recent history and like Tal has said. This kid had a lot of our interest. I don't give two craps on what transpired in the exit interviews, it doesn't really matter.

What I do care about is the future of the basketball program I love. This past year has been full of hyperbola, coach speak and excuses. Unfortunately we have only been reading that one angle in the paper. Sometimes you have to dig a little deeper. Maybe have quote from Will in compliance about how situations like this are handled.

 

[Webergrad02]

Just as I predicted last week, more fluffy goodness from the Standard. This lovely pancake from "Flapjack Garside" and his merry band chefs includes the coach speak we have come to expect and is almost a direct copy of the article Weber released yesterday. Sports journalism at its finest.

http://www.standard.net/Sports/2015/07/23/Weber-State-announces-2015-16-men-s-basketball-schedule.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[oldrunner]

How in the world did you attribute that to Garside. That piece was straight from WSUs web site, written by someone in the athletic department, and reprinted by the Standard. Get it right. :dunce:

 

[Webergrad02]

How in the world did you attribute that to Garside. That piece was straight from WSUs web site, written by someone in the athletic department, and reprinted by the Standard. Get it right. :dunce:

1. They attributed the story to Standard Examiner Staff. I think that is actually worse. They should have stated that it was contributed.
2. Yes it was a copy
3. I think it would be nice if we could get more coverage out of our paper than the average coach speak crap we have been getting. Don't we deserve better coverage? I think so.

Why not tell us about the process of making a schedule? Tell us the difficulties of bringing D1 schools to the DEE. Explain how we were able to get into another good pre-season tournament. Talk about how the game with Portland at the Moda center came to be. I just want some balanced journalism. Is that too much to ask?

 

[SWeberCat02]

How in the world did you attribute that to Garside. That piece was straight from WSUs web site, written by someone in the athletic department, and reprinted by the Standard. Get it right. :dunce:

That's the problem. Feels like Garside and the Standard are really just an extension of the athletic department. It's difficult to tell who it's coming from.

 

[Webergrad02]

How in the world did you attribute that to Garside. That piece was straight from WSUs web site, written by someone in the athletic department, and reprinted by the Standard. Get it right. :dunce:

That's the problem. Feels like Garside and the Standard are really just an extension of the athletic department. It's difficult to tell who it's coming from.

:+1:

 

[oldrunner]

It's, probably, not even a direct quote from Randy. It's the same leading words that are in every years press release on the schedule. The schedule is always released just as the coaches are all leaving town, or have left town, for recruiting. It's a bit like they don't want to be here to take the heat as the schedule is released. I'll call it as I see it. That is not a real quote from Randy. It's an athletic department concoction.

Rather than paying for these patsies to visit the Dee, I would rather that they paid for seats at the ESA for the BYU game. If they must bring in patsies, bring in some local patsies with some interest for local fans. Why are we in the business of supporting these crap schools that nobody has ever heard of. Might as well bring in SLCC, Dixie, Westminster, CEU, CSI, The Jazz summer league team, the WSU Ward team, anybody but who we've have coming in.

The schools and the NCAA need to get a handle on this. It should not be a burden for the coaches.