B's

[flyingnail]

Just wondering what EWU is thinking about repeating the pickup of dropdown QB's versus developing our own ! Makes me wonder WHY anybody would let themselves be recruited to EWU only to have the rug pulled out from under them for a 2yr stint by a guy who couldnt make it at the next level !! Gotta feel for those boys who have paid there dues only to have someone cut some backroom deal to get a QB who couldnt make it at the FBS level ! Just blows me away what some will due to win at all costs, makes you wonder what WTF they're thinking bout and how that effects the team players ! Is it really all about the W now and what it can do for me ? Gotta wonder, Kalm, I know this is not the way you recruit QB's, or is it ? Ya we had success with BLM but really, is this the picture EWU wants to send ? Ya know these coaches get squat for their efforts and are always looking for a better paycheck, but please I think this is a really poor example to send to recruits and the kids willing to earn their position and the whole college experience versus the chance to win at all costs ! All you diehards Eagle fans on this site are gonna whine about these comments but there mine and come with 5 years off experience of watching from the sidelines !! PeaceOut ! goeagles!!! Its not ALWAYS about the "W" !!!!!!!!!!!!! or is it ?

 

[BLACKFALKIN1]

:clap: :clap:
Nothing wrong with what you wrote. You are finally starting to see the BTS part of college football. Its not always fair.. every recruiting season you hope you wont see an excess of players recruited in your position. Or even worse A JC TRANSFER. Thats what you sign up for. Be the best and you have nothing to worry about. At the end of the day that all you're promised which is a CHANCE TO COMPETE. If you cant cut it, transfer to Idaho State where mediocre is the celebrated. Now if you want Nat'l Championship seasons & high flying touchdowns etc. You might have to watch your favorite back up Qb from Lewis & Clark HS ride the pine while Padron takes Eastern back to Frisco.

 

[Screamin_Eagle174]

:clap: :clap:
Nothing wrong with what you wrote. You are finally starting to see the BTS part of college football. Its not always fair.. every recruiting season you hope you wont see an excess of players recruited in your position. Or even worse A JC TRANSFER. Thats what you sign up for. Be the best and you have nothing to worry about. At the end of the day that all you're promised which is a CHANCE TO COMPETE. If you cant cut it, transfer to Idaho State where mediocre is the celebrated. Now if you want Nat'l Championship seasons & high flying touchdowns etc. You might have to watch your favorite back up Qb from Lewis & Clark HS ride the pine while Padron takes Eastern back to Frisco.

BF nailed it. A free education isn't too shabby either.

 

[EWURanger]

Just wondering what EWU is thinking about repeating the pickup of dropdown QB's versus developing our own!

A better question might be: why can't a program do both? And I'm pretty sure what they're thinking about is giving the team the best competitive edge they can to win the conference and go to the playoffs. If bringing in a QB with a ton of live experience helps meet those goals, then I have a hard time understanding why any fan of the program would be opposed to that. Some around here seem to think that BLM was the first transfer QB EWU has had. News flash, it isn't! Virtually EVERY FCS program with a pulse brings in transfers. And the fact that players don't have to sit a year to transfer from FBS to FCS is one of the few benefits of being an FCS program.

Makes me wonder WHY anybody would let themselves be recruited to EWU only to have the rug pulled out from under them for a 2yr stint by a guy who couldnt make it at the next level !! Gotta feel for those boys who have paid there dues only to have someone cut some backroom deal to get a QB who couldnt make it at the FBS level !

I understand where you are coming from when you talk about loyalty and kids that have been in the program and paid their dues, I really do. I get it. But at the same time, there's never any guarantees that a guy that's put in 3 or 4 years in the program is going to be a starter by virtue of that fact. It could be a transfer that fills a starting position, but who's to say that a Freshman doesn't come in and win a starting job. The point is, there's never any guarantees. The coaches are going to field the most competitive team on the field, period. Sometimes that means that kids that have been in the program longer than others get passed up. This is the case in virtually every competitive sport in the world. I really don't see how a player transferring in changes that fact.

Secondly, I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that the player you are talking about "couldn't make it at the FBS level". He was a pretty damn good QB his Freshman and Sophomore years, had a rough start his Junior year and then missed all of the rest of the season. Getting hurt and being passed over for a different player (coincidentally, a transfer) doesn't exactly equate to not cutting it. Just saying.

Just blows me away what some will due to win at all costs, makes you wonder what WTF they're thinking bout and how that effects the team players ! Is it really all about the W now and what it can do for me ?

Yeah, I really don't get what you're saying here at all. It's not like we're bringing in any and every FBS transfer we can.....or bringing in players with questionable work habits or personal "baggage".....or worse yet, players that have had problems with the law. EWU is a program which, historically, has brought in VERY few transfers. If you look around at our Big Sky brethren, I'd be willing to bet that we probably bring in fewer transfers than most. Similarly, if you look around the country at the elite FCS programs, chances are they have a few transfers. Nothing to see here, happens everywhere.

Bottom line, we all want to see the players that have been in the program and put in the hard work play and be successful. I mean, that's a given. The problem with the "win at all costs" theory is that we were going to have to bring at least one QB anyway. We have exactly TWO Qb's on the roster going into Spring Ball. The other is a Freshman-to-be that won't even be on campus until the Fall. So, with knowing that another QB was needed, (if for no other reason than depth), and that EWU was going to bring in another QB - why not go after the best option possible. The program needs someone with experience, and Padron has that. Is he going to be the bee's knees? Who knows, maybe he will be, maybe he won't. But the bottom line is that the best players will play, period. Competition is a good thing, it makes the team as a whole better, and I don't think the majority of the players in the program are the types to shy away from competition.

So I ask again: Why can't EWU continue to develop HS talent AND take the occasional transfer if they have the need? Why's it have to be one or the other......I don't get it.

 

[eaglesfootball]

should have known there was going to be another one of these dumb threads. Wasnt there one just like it a couple years ago??? Guess I must have missed the anouncment of Pardon already being named the starter.

 

[RockTheRed]

He wouldn't be coming all this way if it wasn't the understanding that him being the starter is the plan. There was no QB competition 2 years ago. Every QB on the roster as well as the entire team will say as much, minus BLM.

I think that the whole point is, it would seem as though it's going to be difficult to recruit THAT position in the future given the moves of BLM and now Padron. So long as the freshmen QBs we get each year are more worried about their education vs playing time, it could be ok.

I'm more wondering what's going on in Vitto and Adams head knowing what happened "last time". I wonder if at spring break either of them head home and look to see if there are any options for them?

Its interesting to me - EWU was the only school that Padron took a visit to. I think EWU was the only school with any interest. He may be named the starter after another so-called , press laden - QB competition, but I think Vitto or Adams will be behind center a couple games into the season.

 

[EWURanger]

He may be named the starter after another so-called , press laden - QB competition, but I think Vitto or Adams will be behind center a couple games into the season.

Hey, that's fine with me, too. I just want the best player playing at each position, whether it's Freshman, Senior, or transfer. :thumb:

 

[clawman1]

Hey nail;
I think I understand your position as I've mentioned the same point in the past. This is a tough one because, make no mistake it is all about the winning. Ask Paul Wolff what a couple more wins would have done for his career? Do you think the Griz average over 20k fans a game because they have the nicest coaches and players or because they win? It would be interesting to know what players on the NC team think. Are they glad to have the ring, and all that goes with it, or would they have rather lost a few more games but did "the right thing" by the other QB's? As long as the current players have equal opportunity to compete for positions, all's fair in love and football. Not all drop downs make it either, there have been a fair share of busts. I do agree with you in that we may be losing recruits because we keep taking drop downs at key positions.
With all of that said, being an outsider I have no idea what is going on in the locker room, and the majority of all that is posted here is speculation by people that hide behind a fake name, but I do have faith and confidence in the decisions made by the coaching staff and administration.

 

[Dozy]

This isn't little league where everyone gets their chance and the older kiddies get the nod over the younger ones. It IS about winning. Get the best players you can and get them on the field. If that means it's a transfer then so be it (with no baggage). If that doesn't "work" for a player stuck on the bench then they can transfer as well, if they're so bothered.

Funny how this comes up when a QB transfers in and not other positions. Didn't hear any bitching when Bronson and Pulu transferred in...

 

[marceagfan5]

I think each QB will get a fair shot to earn the starting job. I know it sucks for Vitto and Adams that we are bringing in another option at QB, but don't the coaches owe it to the 60+ other players on the team to give them the best opportunity to win? If Padron gives EWU a better chance to win, why not? They are not just looking out for the QB's on the roster but for the entire team. I also really like Vitto and Adams and think they will be see some playing time. Adams is the perfect QB for some "wildcat" series. I don't think anything is guaranteed to anyone at this point.

Also, as much as it sucks, a lot of it really is about the "W". Anyone remember what the games were like prior to 2010 or heck, even during the 2010 season, we were lucky to be half full. Then we win the chipper and everything changes, recruits put EWU on their radar, fans start coming to the games, so winning makes a huge difference, as someone already said, just look at Missoula.

I guess we will find out soon enough, but if we go 13-2 next year and win it all again, I am pretty sure no one will care who was playing at QB and who wasn't.

 

[reveagle]

seriously nail hno: ? I dont care how we get talent, whether its through high school, jc transfers, or Div 1 drop-downs. I would be pissed if we decided to skip out on Padron because it wasn't "the right thing to do" or because its not "fair" to the qb's already on our roster. The right thing to do is to put the best possible team on the field and give yourself the best chance to win a NC. With EWU's tradition of winning and having one the best qb's in the FCS yr in and yr out, a hs qb would be foolish to pass on us because of the chance of a drop-down coming in. Every situation is unique in this case Padron has proven ability and experience, as well as ties to EWU through BLM. Sure our program will draw interest of Qb drop-downs because of our qb tradition and great offensive system, but that is the same reason it draws interest of hs recruits. Bottom line is i dont think we will be making a habit of acquiring drop=down qb every two years so, that shouldnt hinder our hs qb recruiting.

 

[flyingnail]

Wow, amazing how we all come out of the woodwork when something strikes a foul smell ! All I'm saying is, and you gotta think about this all you Eagle wanna be champs again, If the coaching and RECRUITING is going so well and you offer these kids full rides as freshman WHAT the HELL happens to team moral and future recruiting when ALL of a sudden these underclassmen are passed over for a quick fix !! You call that developing a program that has leggs to stand on ? True as it is, FCS IS the stepping stone to FBS for these coaches and I DONT think thats all bad. But for these players that get offers and a full ride only to be jilted after a year or two in the program makes me wonder HOW good our recruiting really is and if you continue to bail on these kids that WERE promised a fair shot at playing time only to pickup someone that didnt pan out somewhere else doesnt show a great deal of faith in WHAT you recruited in the first place !!! I too like winning and the NC was sweet, but to develop talent and set an example for others to follow, bailing on what you have, for something you might have, sets an example that few will follow !! If you want a winning tradition, and a program that develops talent from within, one needs to look no farther than MSU and the QB situation there, that kid played as a true freshman developed as a sophomore and has blossomed as a team leader this past year, no Juco or dropdowns in that senario just talent givin the time to mature and develop ! You cant win EVERY fing game but as long as you continue to undermine the TEAM and their work ethics the chances of getting back to the NC will ALWAYS be LUCK !!! Which it was the last time !! We all have our opinions and I respect yours, WE ALL want the "W" but at what cost ? GOEAGS!!

 

[reveagle]

nail, you have got to be kidding me. GET a HOLD of YOURSELF! You are looking too much into this. It's happened twice at the QB position, no need to overreact painting us as Dropdown U, cuz we arent. With the exception of BLM and now Padron, all other starters on the team, including the NC team were developed talent from within but I guess thats just not good enough to meet your needs, boohoo cry me a river. Transfers are part of the FCS game, it happens everywhere. We have been fortunate to have quality transfers like Bo and Padron who are good guys with no baggage and as we saw with BLM fully embraced the team, Eastern, and the community. Its getting annoying that you keep talking down Padron as someone who couldn't cut it or has lack of skills when in reality he had pretty damn good seasons as a FR(5th best passer rating in the nation) and SO, he just got a raw deal. I would be upset on the same level as you if we were bringing in a ton of garbage players with bad attitudes, but we arent. Again, all the other positions on the team have been developed from within, and whose to say Adams or Merin don't step in later on and give us a solid two or three years.

 

[BLACKFALKIN1]

Nail, i understand what you are saying and you're correct TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. Vernon & Adams both probably cried themselves to sleep when Padron announced he was coming to Eastern. The guy didnt even look at any other schools. We can take an educated guess (seeing how good Padron was at SMU) that Vernon and Adams wont see any real time at EWU, and that fxckin sux. If it was me I would bolt & if I was a HS qb thinking about EWU and I had other options.. I would def take them bc you know Eastern will fxck you if/when a better deal comes along. (It almost happened to me at Eastern bro so trust me i kno!) Do i think it will effect future HS qb recruits? Yes, but so would Padron taking EWU to a 2nd Natl title... plus there's no way to know for sure anyway. So sit back, relax and enjoy PROVEN FBS QB's literally falling into EWU's lap.

2012 Frisco or Bust

 

[EWURanger]

Nail, you make it sound like the guys we have in the program are going to shy away from competition. I think that's short-selling them a little, and I don't believe that to be true. Again, EWU goes into Spring Ball with 2 Qb's. Padron doesn't come to campus until the summer, and a lot can happen between now and Fall Camp. EWU needs Vitto and Adams to have good Spring Camps, as one of them could very well be the starter against Idaho if you consider Padron may not be 100% or totally comfortable in the system yet. This is assuming he's being brought in with a guarantee that he'll be the starter, but I don't believe that for one minute. Just like Mitchell, I think he's being promised a chance to compete. RocktheRed has mentioned that there was never any competition two years ago when Mitchell was named Qb1, but has anyone considered that maybe he proved to be the best option available? Yeah, he had a rough start, but I don't see how anyone can argue with the end results being a NC and another Payton Award winner.

Also, you want to use Montana State as the metric for what we need to do in regards to developing Qb's because McGhee has been in their program 3 years and played as a True Freshman? Ok, fine. But maybe here's a better example a lot closer to home: Are you forgetting that Matt Nichols, one of the best Qb's all-time at EWU started 4 years here, was recruited out of HS, and played as a true Freshman? How about Erik Meyer? Another EWU all-time great who, recruited by EWU out of HS, sat his Freshman year before being a three-year starter and winning the Walter Payton Award? So, of our last three Qb's at Eastern (all three All-Americans), TWO of them were recruited out of HS and spent 5 years in the program including their RS years. The other being a transfer who was also recruited by EWU in HS. BTW, Montana State also brings in transfers....but I guess those don't count because they're not Qb's. Bottom line is, every program in the Big Sky brings in players where they have the need. In MSU's case, they haven't had the need. You also want to talk about the "winning tradition" at MSU......no offense to MSU, but what winning tradition is that? Being bounced out of the playoffs after one game? Sure, they've had a couple of great seasons the past few years and Ash seems to be a very good coach for them. But, if you want to talk about "tradition" you need to look at the facts - since joining the Big Sky in 1987, EWU has a higher winning % in conference games and a better track record in the playoffs. Eastern also had a seven year winning streak over MSU prior to 2010. Even with all the great things Kramer did to revive their program, I don't think he EVER beat EWU when he was there. They have a great program over there, but ours is just as good and the facts prove that.

But to get back to the Qb situation, I think the only guy who could have a legitimate gripe in this whole thing is Anthony Vitto. But again, he has a shot at being the starter just like everyone else. If he's the best, then he will be QB1, period. Adams will be a RS Freshman who could potentially be a starter for two years even if he has to play behind Padron or Vitto for two years. Besides, I think Adams will still see playing time this season even if he's not the starter. The HS kid Merin will most likely RS in 2012, and then after that has a shot to win the Qb1 job for THREE years after Vitto and Padron are gone. I think with our QB's we are going to have a great mixture of experienced guys and two guys that will be the future of the program. I don't see where the problem is here.

Lastly, I will add that EWU has been EXTREMELY lucky with our last 3 Qb's in that we haven't lost one to injury. Chalk it up to excellent O-Line play, but as we all know these guys are always only one snap away from having to step in as Qb1!!! If guys want to move on because they don't think they're going to have a fair shot, well then that's their choice. At the end of the day, everyone has to do what's best for them...but I just don't think that's the case in this situation and I would be surprised to see the guys we have currently transfer out because of some competition. Would it be any different if Eastern somehow landed a Rivals 4-star HS recruit at Qb last month?

I really think you are making a mountain out of a mole-hill here. The whole "entitlement" culture you seem to be espousing is exactly what's wrong with our country today. Nobody "owes" anyone anything. You get where you want to be in life by hard work......but I imagine most on here know that already. It's a shame people want to question every move made by our coaching staff because they don't think it's "fair" to everyone else.

Go Eags!

 

[EWURanger]

Nail, i understand what you are saying and you're correct TO A CERTAIN DEGREE. Vernon & Adams both probably cried themselves to sleep when Padron announced he was coming to Eastern. The guy didnt even look at any other schools. We can take an educated guess (seeing how good Padron was at SMU) that Vernon and Adams wont see any real time at EWU, and that fxckin sux. If it was me I would bolt & if I was a HS qb thinking about EWU and I had other options.. I would def take them bc you know Eastern will fxck you if/when a better deal comes along. (It almost happened to me at Eastern bro so trust me i kno!) Do i think it will effect future HS qb recruits? Yes, but so would Padron taking EWU to a 2nd Natl title... plus there's no way to know for sure anyway. So sit back, relax and enjoy PROVEN FBS QB's literally falling into EWU's lap.

2012 Frisco or Bust

You could be right about Adams not seeing a lot of PT this season......but remember, he's only a Freshman. Same with Merin, who probably redshirts anyway.

 

[clawman1]

the chances of getting back to the NC will ALWAYS be LUCK !!! Which it was the last time !!

nail;
Is it exclusively your opinion that the NC was just luck or the feeling of the all the team members especially those you are tight with?

 

[flyingnail]

Clawman, I think to the man they would tell you it was as much luck winning the NC as it was Talent ! So many games won in the last quarter couldve been lost and without the luck factor AND the talent that doesnt happen. Luck on calls, MSU, NDSU, and a few others, not saying we didnt make the luck just saying it was lucky for us the dice rolled a they did ! Repeating a championship in anything requires a degree of luck and breaks in your favor. The chances of repeating at the FCS level and becoming NC's 2 years in a row requires a lot of luck !! The BSC is catching up in parity these days and there are very few gimmies anymore ! I think that FCS in general is catching up with the mid-majors and on any given day could win that game debate ! So unless you think EWU won that NC on talent alone thats your opinion, it was as lucky as it was destiny a truely Magical Season that just doesnt happen very often !! GOEAGS! And yes we're talking football again and wether I am right or wrong thats enough to get me through this deadzone!

 

[clawman1]

perception is reality

 

[EWURanger]

Clawman, I think to the man they would tell you it was as much luck winning the NC as it was Talent ! So many games won in the last quarter couldve been lost and without the luck factor AND the talent that doesnt happen. Luck on calls, MSU, NDSU, and a few others, not saying we didnt make the luck just saying it was lucky for us the dice rolled a they did ! Repeating a championship in anything requires a degree of luck and breaks in your favor. The chances of repeating at the FCS level and becoming NC's 2 years in a row requires a lot of luck !! The BSC is catching up in parity these days and there are very few gimmies anymore ! I think that FCS in general is catching up with the mid-majors and on any given day could win that game debate ! So unless you think EWU won that NC on talent alone thats your opinion, it was as lucky as it was destiny a truely Magical Season that just doesnt happen very often !! GOEAGS! And yes we're talking football again and wether I am right or wrong thats enough to get me through this deadzone!

Hey, I totally agree with you one that one. I don't think a lot of teams make it there on talents alone. We did get a lot of breaks in 2010 such as coming back late in games to win them or close calls going our way. The whole season just seemed like a perfect storm for EWU. That said, I think if you look back you could probaby identify quite a few championship teams who, if they hadn't a close call here or there probably wouldn't have gotten as far as they did.

Also agree about the Big Sky having a lot more parity in recent years. With quality programs like Poly joining the conference this year it's only going to get tougher. Every game is most likely going to be a battle and a lot of wins and losses most likely comes down to a single play. Just look at the Poly an Sac games from 2011. Gunna be crazy!