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Extension of contract or go in a new direction?
- Thread starter bengalcub
- Start date
bengalcub
Active member
My vote is that it is time for a change--NO CONTRACT EXTENSION.
I voted this way because of the lack of player retention for the most part--no surprise here from me. I think that Coach Zamberlin has not shown the ability to attract and retain enough D-1 caliber athletes. The offense is predictable as is the defense. When you play as many FR as ISU has, the depth of the program is a serious question mark. I also think that the loss to Central Washington was devastating to the local fan base and the interest in the ISU program has been damaged a great deal.
I do not believe that 2-3 more years will yield any different result nor do I believe that the ISU football program was left in shambles by the prior regime.
I also respect the opinions of others that may disagree with me.
I voted this way because of the lack of player retention for the most part--no surprise here from me. I think that Coach Zamberlin has not shown the ability to attract and retain enough D-1 caliber athletes. The offense is predictable as is the defense. When you play as many FR as ISU has, the depth of the program is a serious question mark. I also think that the loss to Central Washington was devastating to the local fan base and the interest in the ISU program has been damaged a great deal.
I do not believe that 2-3 more years will yield any different result nor do I believe that the ISU football program was left in shambles by the prior regime.
I also respect the opinions of others that may disagree with me.
john_clayton
Active member
As poorly as the Bengals have played this year and last, and considering the $$ issues pocatato has mentioned, I would (gulp) extend the contract for two, maybe three, years. (not sure if the SBOE approves contracts with employer/employee options during the last year). Why extend:
1. If "truly" takes 3-4 years to build, then let him have the opportunity. There's been a lot of praise of about the 2008-2009 recruiting classes (we're seeing some of the talent get some game experience now). If Z can bring in a similar class in 2010, then I could see a decent foundation built.
2. Provide a little more stability to bring in upcoming recruiting classes. A lame duck coach is AWFUL for recruiting.
3. Give Z the latitude to make changes to the coaching staff if he believes there needs to be changes.
4. I don't think bringing in a new coach is the answer. Fiscally, it does not make sense to conduct a search. Unless the Bengal Foundation wants to cough up some cash to hire a new coach (assuming there is a strong legion of Bengal Foundation that want a new coach).
If Z gets an extension, and the 2010 squad is competitive and is .500 or better in BSC, then I think the future is brighter. If Z gets an extension, and we see the 2010 squad is like 2008 or the first half of the 2009 season, then it's time for a change. Man I want this guy and this team to succeed on and off the field.
1. If "truly" takes 3-4 years to build, then let him have the opportunity. There's been a lot of praise of about the 2008-2009 recruiting classes (we're seeing some of the talent get some game experience now). If Z can bring in a similar class in 2010, then I could see a decent foundation built.
2. Provide a little more stability to bring in upcoming recruiting classes. A lame duck coach is AWFUL for recruiting.
3. Give Z the latitude to make changes to the coaching staff if he believes there needs to be changes.
4. I don't think bringing in a new coach is the answer. Fiscally, it does not make sense to conduct a search. Unless the Bengal Foundation wants to cough up some cash to hire a new coach (assuming there is a strong legion of Bengal Foundation that want a new coach).
If Z gets an extension, and the 2010 squad is competitive and is .500 or better in BSC, then I think the future is brighter. If Z gets an extension, and we see the 2010 squad is like 2008 or the first half of the 2009 season, then it's time for a change. Man I want this guy and this team to succeed on and off the field.
My vote is no extension
I feel that moving in a new direction/having a new voice will be beneficial to the players. From comments made previously by players and the look of things on the field (lack of disciplined play) it looks like the staff has lost the lockerroom. The players aren't listening. In addition I feel that his previous staff changes/lack thereof, haven't earned him the opportunity to restaff. His changes to O coord has proven to be mediocre at best and the defense still struggles (7.4 yrds per rush, 40 points a game). Yes there have been struggles for him to overcome, but it seems like he is making excuses to deflect blame instead of owning up and making "no excuses". I don't feel that he has shown that he can succeed at this level, ie.- massive attrition, some problem kids (his recruits), hasn't brought in D1 talent, 16- 20 point losses, loss to a D2, only 4 wins!, excuses because of schedule etc. Those are some of the reasons why I don't think he should be given any more time after this season.
I feel that moving in a new direction/having a new voice will be beneficial to the players. From comments made previously by players and the look of things on the field (lack of disciplined play) it looks like the staff has lost the lockerroom. The players aren't listening. In addition I feel that his previous staff changes/lack thereof, haven't earned him the opportunity to restaff. His changes to O coord has proven to be mediocre at best and the defense still struggles (7.4 yrds per rush, 40 points a game). Yes there have been struggles for him to overcome, but it seems like he is making excuses to deflect blame instead of owning up and making "no excuses". I don't feel that he has shown that he can succeed at this level, ie.- massive attrition, some problem kids (his recruits), hasn't brought in D1 talent, 16- 20 point losses, loss to a D2, only 4 wins!, excuses because of schedule etc. Those are some of the reasons why I don't think he should be given any more time after this season.
up for the challenge
Active member
I voted that Coach Z stays at ISU. This is a coach that came to ISU to turn the program around. His past two recruiting classes have been great as these players believe in the ISU program and want to be the Big Sky Champions. Coach Z will do what it takes to turn this program around and the players will work hard in the classroom and on the football field to accomplish their individual and team goals. Coach Z is the man to turn this program around, trust me on this one....
blackfootbengal
Active member
I voted not to extend Zamberlin's contract with some misgivings. I recognize that the budget and support from the ISU administration have not been what it should be to succeed. I also happen to think Zamberlin is a truly nice person. That being said, this has nothing to do with our first two recruiting class problems. Both retention and disipline problems. Unlike many of you, I saw our first two recruiting classes first hand, the days they visited. You should have seen the ones who got away. Unfortunately they were kids we had no chance of getting unless they were in serious trouble or failing school. We wasted our first two recruiting weekends on kids we had no chance of getting the first two years, and failed to bring in kids we did have a chance of getting. No one was good enough for Orthman or Strandly until it was to late. Of the first years potential class, we have already played against two we should have had when we played at Weber. Remember the D-end from Box Elder on Weber's team. He wanted to come here and didn't even get a sniff until to late to get him. We did not sign one impact player in the first class; the best was Kelvin Krosch. Kelvin Mill lost his chance for mention because he cannot attend class unless his mommy is there to dress him. The verdict is still out on Rouser. The coaching staff who for the most part came from a Div. II program were not willing to listen to anyone on who or what they should recruit. Remember, Whitworth was not the only coach retained from the prior staff, we retained two GA's, one who was recruiting Hawaii and Utah. The result is we are now less athletic than most the teams we play. The second class was marginally better, but again we passed on players we should have been recruiting to chase "pie in the sky" players. Hell, our starting left tackle was brought in with the walk-ons/partial offer group as was our starting TE. Who allowed this, the head coach? And it is hurting us today. I sat through 8 years of Lewis recruiting. They brought in the players they wanted and thought they could get the first visit. If ten came in they would commit eight. Zamberlin brought in I believe 15 or 20 his first group, to be honest I don't remember how may committed. But trust me, it was not many if any. I do believe we got one or two out of that group. The same with the first group his second year. His last year he finally brought in the kids he could both get and could help the program the first weekend, we committed more out of that group than either of the first two years. I wonder why our offensive coordinator did not get a substantial raise when he took his position, but we are paying a D-line coach very well as a position coach. Why, if you thought the D-coordinator needed help did you not bring a d-coordnator and relegate the present D-coordinator to D-line duties. Why not bring in a mature O-coordinator to teach your young line coach rather than blaming the offenssive problems on a young coach. Face it the O-line coach does what the O-coordinator wants, not the other way around. I'm tired of the excuses myself. I'll equate it to a comment Zamberlin made in yesterdays radio broadcast concerning the first interception. He said that Hill should have gone to the three reciever side of the field rather than the one reciever side. Well no sh!t Sherlock, I'm betting Hill is thinking the same thing now himself. Hindsight is always best sight, makes some people allot smarter than they really are. But what he should be asking is why in the past two games has two different QB's been intercepted on the same route. Coach you might want to take a look at what your doing that tips the other team off on what play or route you are running. There had to be a reason that CB felt it was a good time to jump that route as did the CB on the interception going into the end zone against Eastern. Try not placing blame on a player for play on the field when your staff essetially placed the game in his hands to win or lose.
tuffgong
Active member
I vote fire him now, midseason, and would concur with everything blackfootbengal wrote.. These people that think we're are recruiting well are high.. We had REAL D1 talent under Lewis.. With the exception of a few nice players, we're running out D2 and D3 athletes every week..
First, there is still a lot of season to be played. If Z were to go 5-6 this year, he would be deserving of an extension.
If ISU is considering an extension, why wasn't Zamberlin given a 5-6 year commitment initially? Why the 3 year contract? If Z is retained following one of the worst periods of football in ISU history, this sends the wrong message about ISU athletics.
I voted no extension.
If ISU is considering an extension, why wasn't Zamberlin given a 5-6 year commitment initially? Why the 3 year contract? If Z is retained following one of the worst periods of football in ISU history, this sends the wrong message about ISU athletics.
I voted no extension.
GOBIGORANGE
Active member
Blackfoot is right on the money! Blackfoot said it awhile back and I said it last year...Zamberlin needs to step up and be the MAN and evidently he can't so I am voting to not extend his contract...He has let his assistants ruin his chance to get my vote...I say the only two coaches that should stay is Cullen and Miller, possibly putting Cullen as head coach. I am tired of the players getting the blame (there are many D1 quality players but the coaching staff can't call the right plays or make the right choices as far as the players that should be getting the playing time). If anyone thinks that our true freshmen are ready to play at this level they are not !!! They need time to learn the program and it will eventually end up killing the program in a couple of years....Yes, they will have their moments but to burn 11 redshirts in one year is not a good thing. I truly feel sorry for those players that have given everything they have to give just to be demoralized by the administration and coaches. To those few of you that do have that heart I have been talking about ....keeping fighting...DIG DEEP...GO BENGALS!
Blackfoot....which GA's were retained?
Blackfoot....which GA's were retained?
blackfootbengal
Active member
The O-line coach and TE coach we have now.
GOBIGORANGE
Active member
Too many young assistants.....I know they need to start somewhere but ISU needs some coaches with more experience.
tigersmilk
Active member
my point is a quick one and it has to do with the burned redshirts.
i remember a player from 2006 who was brought in as a freshman by lewis. due to the circumstances of the season coach lewis made the decision to burn his redshirt. this kid was a baller. watching him play as a true freshman with as much talent as he had made lewis look like a genius for bringing him in...
my point is that eric stoll had the oportunity to showcase his ability to the entire bigsky, and with his redshirt burned he had nothing to deter him from moving on to a better program. we remember that montana picked him up at semester. he then used his redshirt the following season and will go on to have success for three more years.
the underlying principle here is to play 11 freshmen as true freshman is risky business, it's obviously desperate but most importantly it hurts the growth of these athletes.
now the lay person might look at all the freshman playing and marvel that Zamberlin was able to bring in such phenomenal athletes by virtue of the fact that they are playing so young. the truth is, he is HAVING to play them as freshmen because depth with redshirted sophomores, juniors and seniors is so depleted...and the depth is so depleted because he cant retain what he had when he got here and what he recruited in his first two years.
Zamberlin burned 11 redshirts this year (he Zamburned them if i may), this is a disaster, and the long term repercussions will not be worth the short term payoff.
i remember a player from 2006 who was brought in as a freshman by lewis. due to the circumstances of the season coach lewis made the decision to burn his redshirt. this kid was a baller. watching him play as a true freshman with as much talent as he had made lewis look like a genius for bringing him in...
my point is that eric stoll had the oportunity to showcase his ability to the entire bigsky, and with his redshirt burned he had nothing to deter him from moving on to a better program. we remember that montana picked him up at semester. he then used his redshirt the following season and will go on to have success for three more years.
the underlying principle here is to play 11 freshmen as true freshman is risky business, it's obviously desperate but most importantly it hurts the growth of these athletes.
now the lay person might look at all the freshman playing and marvel that Zamberlin was able to bring in such phenomenal athletes by virtue of the fact that they are playing so young. the truth is, he is HAVING to play them as freshmen because depth with redshirted sophomores, juniors and seniors is so depleted...and the depth is so depleted because he cant retain what he had when he got here and what he recruited in his first two years.
Zamberlin burned 11 redshirts this year (he Zamburned them if i may), this is a disaster, and the long term repercussions will not be worth the short term payoff.
GOBIGORANGE
Active member
Well put, Tigersmilk. There is one more thing you may know about....I heard these players, if they choose to stay will not get their room and board money for that 5th year, just their tuition....Is this true and if so do their parents realize that.
tigersmilk
Active member
brother you heard it right and it sucks!
it's called the kelly 5th year aid scholarship. tuition is paid for but if you want to eat or have somewhere to live you're shit-out-of-luck.
also keep in mind that with the demands of football it is nearly impossible to get all of the credits one needs to graduate in 4 years.
now somebody is going to jump on here whining about how they pay for summer classes..to that i say that players aren't receiving a stipend during the summer, so between liftings, runnings, 7on7, and classes finding time for a job and finding someone who will hire them for 3 months isn't practical. not to mention that 9 extra credits over the three summers these kids will have as athletes wont be enough to graduate them on time.
most of these kids parents probably think that there boys are committed to contract till they graduate, the truth is if the coaches dont like them for whatever reason, even if that reason is because they got injured playing (somebody call bullshit on this please!), they dont have to resign their contract. so a player can be halfway through their degree and be sent home because they're no longer supported. admittedly this would be a rare circumstance, but it's happened.
it's called the kelly 5th year aid scholarship. tuition is paid for but if you want to eat or have somewhere to live you're shit-out-of-luck.
also keep in mind that with the demands of football it is nearly impossible to get all of the credits one needs to graduate in 4 years.
now somebody is going to jump on here whining about how they pay for summer classes..to that i say that players aren't receiving a stipend during the summer, so between liftings, runnings, 7on7, and classes finding time for a job and finding someone who will hire them for 3 months isn't practical. not to mention that 9 extra credits over the three summers these kids will have as athletes wont be enough to graduate them on time.
most of these kids parents probably think that there boys are committed to contract till they graduate, the truth is if the coaches dont like them for whatever reason, even if that reason is because they got injured playing (somebody call bullshit on this please!), they dont have to resign their contract. so a player can be halfway through their degree and be sent home because they're no longer supported. admittedly this would be a rare circumstance, but it's happened.
GOBIGORANGE
Active member
Thanks, Tigersmilk, sounds like you know your stuff!
tigersmilk
Active member
just to be sure votb...are you saying that the players are being demoralized by some fans?
bengalcub
Active member
What confuses me is the fact that some folks are NOT concerned about a HC that is 1-21 in his last 22 contests. Mix in the fact that the HC has lost 50% of his incoming FR recruiting class in his his first two years--plus the HC leads a team that ranks dead last in scoring offense, scoring defense, total offense and total defense in the BSC...six games into 2009.
All I want to know is why some folks don't understand why the ALARM is sounding?
All I want to know is why some folks don't understand why the ALARM is sounding?
votb
Active member
tigersmilk said:
Let me make this quick. This IS A FAN BOARD, and you all should be able to post your own thoughts and feelings. But thinking that players can only be demoralized by coaches and administrators, and not by fans (or even parents for that matter), is patently absurd.
You ALL should be able to express your feelings here, but whether you want to believe it or not, and whether it's right or wrong...players hear about what's here...or some even see it for themselves. There are even some that post here and pass it along to players. Don't try and pretend it doesn't happen. THAT's what I'm saying.
When I post here...I must be accountable for what I say and express because this is a "public" tool for communication. I'm more than willing to tolerate opposing viewpoints...but let's be realistic rather than "Pollyanish".
One more thing...I know there are many here that rip on Coach Z and the program from their hearts...I also know there are others that have personal issues with Coach Z...or are friends with someone else that does...and they use this forum to tear him and his team down. You should be men enough to deal with him face-to-face.
I'm out...