Hornets appear to be leading contender for Graves

[footballnow]

I'm not sure what your comment meant GCM?

What I'm saying is we aren't keeping or getting enough of the local players that would help grow our fan base and profile in the area. It's not that Sperbeck isn't trying. I think it is the thought process of the players in the area. They just want to get the heck out of Sacramento. They just don't think Sac State is a decent program. This is due to the pre-sperbeck eras when losing was rampant. Even though Sac State is getting better. I don't think these kids see it.

Look who signed with teams in our conference or who will soon be in our conference. or FCS level Schools

Anthony King- Eastern Washington
Jonathan Bias- UC Davis
Andrew Hunter- UC Davis
TU'UTA INOKE- Cal Poly
Artice Nelson- UC Davis
MARCUS PAIGE-ALLEN- Cal Poly
MANSEL SIMMONS- Portland State
WILLIE TUCKER- Cal Poly

Cal Poly and Davis out paced us so far. We've got 1 local so far JORDAN MATANANE RB OAK RIDGE. Portland State and Eastern Washington have even got a kid from this area.

I don't think this is Sperbecks fault it's just the kids thought process about Sac State and staying in Sac.

 

[SDHornet]

Attendance will only have a marginal increase with a successful program at the FCS level.* Consistent appearances on TV won’t really come until after an FBS move happens. Case and point; EWU just won a FCS national championship and as far as we know they signed one good prospect from the Sac area. No way in hell a program like Sac State finds money, attendance and TV revenue to fund significant** facility upgrades until after a move is made.

*EWU had trouble filling their 10k stadium on their playoff run, and the FCS Championship only drew 13k. The bottom line is the casual fan doesn’t give a rats ass about FCS.

**Significant meaning something that can attract a home and home with a Pac-12 or upper tier MWC program. In our case that would be a 30k+ stadium.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

Attendance will only have a marginal increase with a successful program at the FCS level.* Consistent appearances on TV won’t really come until after an FBS move happens. Case and point; EWU just won a FCS national championship and as far as we know they signed one good prospect from the Sac area. No way in hell a program like Sac State finds money, attendance and TV revenue to fund significant** facility upgrades until after a move is made.

*EWU had trouble filling their 10k stadium on their playoff run, and the FCS Championship only drew 13k. The bottom line is the casual fan doesn’t give a rats ass about FCS.

**Significant meaning something that can attract a home and home with a Pac-12 or upper tier MWC program. In our case that would be a 30k+ stadium.

I understand what your saying but Cheney, Washington isn't Sacramento, California. The entire population of the county of Spokane (which includes the cities of Cheney and Spokane) is around 500k, whereas the Sacramento Metropolitan area is over 2.5M (depending upon what sources you believe). That's a much larger pool in which to draw.

I'm not certain what the attendance numbers were this past season (perhaps you or someone else knows), but, according to the Sacramento Bee, the average attendance was 8,184 in 2008 and 9,935 in 2009 (take out the UCD game and it was 8,139). I'm assuming 2010 was close to the same. So they are drawing 8K with a perennial bottom tier team.

If Sac State was a perennial winner, they'd draw A LOT more than they do. They certainly wouldn't have trouble topping 10K for playoff games as you say EWU did. If the Grant / Folsom HS game can draw 20K+ despite the threat of a storm, the Hornets could easily draw that for a big playoff game.

Honestly, if Sacramento loses the Kings, the Hornets should have a golden opportunity to grow. With no major league sports team in town, sports hungry fans will have to latch on to something. The only outlets will be the Mountain Lions, River Cats, and Hornets. If the Hornets continue their uphill climb, they may very well see a big spike in attendance.

But I do agree with you on one thing. The Hornets could never draw really big crowds, say 25, 30, 40K+ until moving to the FBS. However, they should be able to average the 15K required to move and stay at FBS level.

 

[SDHornet]

I think we all would have loved to see Graves at Sac State but it’s not the end of the world. I waited until it was official that he wasn’t going to be a Hornet so here are some pro’s and con’s that crossed my mind with Graves:

• • Graves will take on the honor of protecting our liberty and freedom at least until his 10 year commitment is completed.
  • We won’t have to face him unless we schedule AF as a money game. I actually thought Graves would have thrived in the Pistol attack at PSU and it could have been down right scary for the Big Sky. It’s a big relief he didn’t go there.
  • We tried a 5’-10” QB before with mixed results. Granted Graves has the potential to be an amazing player but Sperbeck probably would have had to develop a whole new playbook to get the most out of Graves (ex: roll outs to allow Graves to see the field on pass plays).
  • The Hornets will miss out on a local star that could have brought in more donations and fans.
  • We have a commitment from a 2-star “pro-style QB” in 6’-3” 199 lb Jake Geringer. Sperbeck has had no problem recruiting big OL and quality RB’s. With a few more talented young WR’s coming on, the Hornets will have all the tools they need to have a well balanced offense when Geringer takes the helm.

Again, not saying we all wouldn’t have like to see Graves at Sac State, I’m just pointing out that the future is still bright. The clips of Geringer show he has an accurate arm that can stretch the field and he has some mobility. His clips show him hitting WR’s deep down the field in stride. Also he seemed to have some pocket presence and doesn’t lock onto one WR when progressing through his reads. His footwork looked fine and his throwing mechanics didn’t look to have a major flaw. I think Geringer will do fine with a solid supporting cast around him.

 

[SDHornet]

BHF,
The fact that the Sac area has a large population yet Hornet Stadium rarely exceeds 10k attendance (non-Causeway games) is a testament to the perception of FCS. We play schools the casual fan hasn’t heard of and doesn’t care about. Sacramento desires to be on the big stage and an FBS program can get them there.

I just think with the way things have been changing in FBS, a move will have to be made soon (within the next 2 years or so) or we will forever be stuck in FCS. The window to make a move is closing and may never open again.

 

[Phantom Hornet]

I know they list him as 5 '10, but there is no way he is that tall. Having seen him in person would say 5'8 at the max and that's pushing it....still, didn't seem to hurt his play at all.

I also personally don't think the door is totally shut on Sac State, in regards to Graves down the line. It is a tough adjustment to AFA, and not everyone can make it. There have been several athletes from this area that ended up transfering to Sac or Davis from the AFA. He is going to be going from a place in Folsom where he is a god, to another where he is just another boot-licker sitting out a year. Not everyone can make that adjustment, but I wish him the best of luck.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

BHF,
The fact that the Sac area has a large population yet Hornet Stadium rarely exceeds 10k attendance (non-Causeway games) is a testament to the perception of FCS.

I disagree. It's more about the perception of the Hornet program than it is about the FCS. A perennial losing program just isn't going to garner much support, with the lone exception being our Sacramento Kings who attracted fans for years despite being a perennial loser. However, we all know there is a big difference between a professional team from one of the 4 major sports that was fairly new on the block and a small college program. Furthermore, even the Kings haven't been drawing well (between 11-13k) the past couple years since returning to their losing ways, which is a testament to the fact that many fans won't support a loser.

Despite the Hornets being part of the FCS, they could likely double their attendance numbers by producing a consistent winning program. Agreed that it pales in comparison to what a FBS program could draw, but still .. win and a lot more fans will come despite being in the FCS.

 

[footballnow]

BHF,
The fact that the Sac area has a large population yet Hornet Stadium rarely exceeds 10k attendance (non-Causeway games) is a testament to the perception of FCS.

I disagree. It's more about the perception of the Hornet program than it is about the FCS. A perennial losing program just isn't going to garner much support, with the lone exception being our Sacramento Kings who attracted fans for years despite being a perennial loser. However, we all know there is a big difference between a professional team from one of the 4 major sports that was fairly new on the block and a small college program. Furthermore, even the Kings haven't been drawing well (between 11-13k) the past couple years since returning to their losing ways, which is a testament to the fact that many fans won't support a loser.

Despite the Hornets being part of the FCS, they could likely double their attendance numbers by producing a consistent winning program. Agreed that it pales in comparison to what a FBS program could draw, but still .. win and a lot more fans will come despite being in the FCS.

My sentiments exactly. Plus we need to get as many locals as we can. The fan support would increase if a kids family is in town and can come to the game on saturday with some friends. We got 3 total locals in this class one was a long snapper. That is a testament to the perception that the local kids have about Sac State.

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

My sentiments exactly. Plus we need to get as many locals as we can. The fan support would increase if a kids family is in town and can come to the game on saturday with some friends. We got 3 total locals in this class one was a long snapper. That is a testament to the perception that the local kids have about Sac State.

The ultimate proof is that they are losing talented local kids to rival FCS schools, several of which are out of state. If it was simply an FCS perception, these same kids wouldn't be committing to UCD, Cal Poly, PSU, EWU, etc. If the Hornets start winning consistently, they should be able to keep more of these kids in town and away from their rivals.

 

[OldHornet]

My sentiments exactly. Plus we need to get as many locals as we can. The fan support would increase if a kids family is in town and can come to the game on saturday with some friends. We got 3 total locals in this class one was a long snapper. That is a testament to the perception that the local kids have about Sac State.

The ultimate proof is that they are losing talented local kids to rival FCS schools, several of which are out of state. If it was simply an FCS perception, these same kids wouldn't be committing to UCD, Cal Poly, PSU, EWU, etc. If the Hornets start winning consistently, they should be able to keep more of these kids in town and away from their rivals.

I think the local thing is a little overblown. The number one priority is to win, not have a team full of local kids. Some kids just want to go away to college, Fresno State constantly loses local kids to Nevada and other schools. Other times you may not make an offer to a kid because you rate someone else higher or the player may not fit your system. Based on what I've seen the only local kid we lost to an FCS program was Allen to Cal Poly. The others were lost to FBS teams (which should be expected) or kids Sac St didn't offer.

The current coaching staff signed a fair amount of local guys the last few years, and I'm sure it will continue in the future. But bottom line is they will be judged on wins and not the geography of their roster.

 

[SDHornet]

I agree that sustained winning will help but I just believe there is more to it that that. There are always those recruits who want to leave home and try some place different. Then there are the recruits may be looking for a specific degree Sac State doesn’t offer. The coaches need to find players who can continue to improve this program, whether that is local recruits or not. So far we have seen continued success under Sperbeck and hopefully this can continue so that the perception of Sac State continues to improve.

OldHornet nailed this one. Winning is the ultimate goal, regardless of where the recruit come from.

 

[footballnow]

My sentiments exactly. Plus we need to get as many locals as we can. The fan support would increase if a kids family is in town and can come to the game on saturday with some friends. We got 3 total locals in this class one was a long snapper. That is a testament to the perception that the local kids have about Sac State.

The ultimate proof is that they are losing talented local kids to rival FCS schools, several of which are out of state. If it was simply an FCS perception, these same kids wouldn't be committing to UCD, Cal Poly, PSU, EWU, etc. If the Hornets start winning consistently, they should be able to keep more of these kids in town and away from their rivals.

I think the local thing is a little overblown. The number one priority is to win, not have a team full of local kids. Some kids just want to go away to college, Fresno State constantly loses local kids to Nevada and other schools. Other times you may not make an offer to a kid because you rate someone else higher or the player may not fit your system. Based on what I've seen the only local kid we lost to an FCS program was Allen to Cal Poly. The others were lost to FBS teams (which should be expected) or kids Sac St didn't offer.

The current coaching staff signed a fair amount of local guys the last few years, and I'm sure it will continue in the future. But bottom line is they will be judged on wins and not the geography of their roster.

I disagree. Especially when your coach even says that recruiting locally is a top priority. Now it doesn't appear that it is Sperbecks fault because Sac State did make several offers to locals. It's the perception of Sac State to these locals. We have to change that perception to get more good local players to stay here.
It's not overblown. Your local base is what is gonna drive your attendance. If people don't know the teams we are playing at home on saturday's , you have to give them players that they know so that they will have a reason to come out to the games. Winning is apart of it also. But getting locals from this area which is a top high school recruiting area will help you win . So it goes hand in hand.

 

[SDHornet]

I agree there should be an emphasis on retaining Sac area talent, but like OH pointed out, I think you are over blowing it.

Brady Hoke didn’t turn SDSU’s program around with only SD area talent and the crowds still came. They came because of winning. Hoke did emphasize SoCal area talent and I am sure there were plenty of parents and friends who made the trip to see home games at the Q, but I don't think the majoirty of fans went to an Aztec game for that reason alone.

The point is most of the recruits brought in aren’t that far from Sac and are well within driving range. Parents will still drive a couple of hours to see their kid play. With the vibrant and unrestrictive tailgating policy at Sac State, they probably bring a few people with them too. Winning will bring in the local crowd; the question is how does Sac State go about obtaining exposure to inform the local crowd (casual fans) about improvements in the program in hope of them attending games. Sac State’s ability to market their programs also plays a large role in this attendance issue; I don’t think the attendance hinges solely on the sticking point of Sac area recruits.

 

[footballnow]

I agree there should be an emphasis on retaining Sac area talent, but like OH pointed out, I think you are over blowing it.

Brady Hoke didn’t turn SDSU’s program around with only SD area talent and the crowds still came. They came because of winning. Hoke did emphasize SoCal area talent and I am sure there were plenty of parents and friends who made the trip to see home games at the Q, but I don't think the majoirty of fans went to an Aztec game for that reason alone.

The point is most of the recruits brought in aren’t that far from Sac and are well within driving range. Parents will still drive a couple of hours to see their kid play. With the vibrant and unrestrictive tailgating policy at Sac State, they probably bring a few people with them too. Winning will bring in the local crowd; the question is how does Sac State go about obtaining exposure to inform the local crowd (casual fans) about improvements in the program in hope of them attending games. Sac State’s ability to market their programs also plays a large role in this attendance issue; I don’t think the attendance hinges solely on the sticking point of Sac area recruits.

I understand your point. but it's not overblown. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[SDHornet]

Fair enough. Go Hornets! :lol:

 

[BuckeyeHornetFan]

Based on what I've seen the only local kid we lost to an FCS program was Allen to Cal Poly.

According to someone else on this site (can't recall who) we also lost Anthony King to EWU.

In regards to some of the replies regarding local recruiting, I also agree that you recruit the best players regardless where they are from. That said, over the years they have often lost local players that they do have heavy interest in. If they are losing them to FBS teams, that's one thing. But losing them to FCS rivals is where it becomes a problem. In some cases, it's unavoidable because, as was already mentioned, some kids just want to get the hell out of dodge and leave the area. However, IMO, they have lost many a kid that probably would have stayed in area if not for the programs history of losing and poor reputation around town. That's the issue I'm speaking about. Change that perception (by winning) then suddenly they'll be able to keep a larger percentage of the talented locals they really have interest in away from their rivals.

 

[footballnow]

Based on what I've seen the only local kid we lost to an FCS program was Allen to Cal Poly.

According to someone else on this site (can't recall who) we also lost Anthony King to EWU.

In regards to some of the replies regarding local recruiting, I also agree that you recruit the best players regardless where they are from. That said, over the years they have often lost local players that they do have heavy interest in. If they are losing them to FBS teams, that's one thing. But losing them to FCS rivals is where it becomes a problem. In some cases, it's unavoidable because, as was already mentioned, some kids just want to get the hell out of dodge and leave the area. However, IMO, they have lost many a kid that probably would have stayed in area if not for the programs history of losing and poor reputation around town. That's the issue I'm speaking about. Change that perception (by winning) then suddenly they'll be able to keep a larger percentage of the talented locals they really have interest in away from their rivals.

BuckeyeHornetFan, I think we have the same brain at least on this one. :lol:

 

[OldHornet]

Based on what I've seen the only local kid we lost to an FCS program was Allen to Cal Poly.

According to someone else on this site (can't recall who) we also lost Anthony King to EWU.

In regards to some of the replies regarding local recruiting, I also agree that you recruit the best players regardless where they are from. That said, over the years they have often lost local players that they do have heavy interest in. If they are losing them to FBS teams, that's one thing. But losing them to FCS rivals is where it becomes a problem. In some cases, it's unavoidable because, as was already mentioned, some kids just want to get the hell out of dodge and leave the area. However, IMO, they have lost many a kid that probably would have stayed in area if not for the programs history of losing and poor reputation around town. That's the issue I'm speaking about. Change that perception (by winning) then suddenly they'll be able to keep a larger percentage of the talented locals they really have interest in away from their rivals.

According to Rivals, Sac didn't offer a scholarship to King - I know we can't rely on the site to be totally correct.

1. Winning changes all attitudes
2. Everyone would love to have local kids on the roster, if they match the system and are the best available
3. If two kids are equal, take the local kids
4. We will always lose some local talent because kids want to leave town
5. JUST WIN and they will come!

 

[hornet123]

From what I have been told, there is such a thing as a "Non Qualifer, Prop 48" which basically means that a student athlete does not qualify through standard NCAA rules but if a school allows such athlete to "Prop" they will be allowed to enter school and compete after sitting out one season. All of the Division 1 FBS conferences have banned the "Prop" but the Big Sky is one of the conferences that still allows it. I also understand that Eastern Washington, Portland State, Idaho State (During the good years), and Southern Utah are the only schools in the west currently practicing it. It frustrates me when Sac State is criticized for not recruiting Taiwan Jones (EWU Prop), Matt Nichols (EWU Prop), Anthony King (EWU Prop), Shaquille Hill (EWU Prop), Quincy Forte (EWU Prop). I have even been told that Cal Poly (Supposed Big Time Academic School) is being allowed this fortune with Marcus Paige-Allen from Sheldon High School, who the sac bee wrote a big article about Cal Poly beating Sac State on, is a prop and couldnt attend Sac State because of too high of academic standards! So much for Cal Poly being Harvard West, apparently they are just a CSU like us. My point is that we are all very critical and don't know the whole truth about local recruiting. Sac State is doing a good job and if the local players go to EWU, PSU, CP, or somewhere else and it seems fishy it may not be because they did not try. Lots of harsh critics that know nothing about the real deal.

 

[footballnow]

hornet 123 - Not once in the post did i read that Sac State didnt try to recruit locals. We actually were talking about the perception that local players have about Sac State that causes them to lose out on alot of local talent. Sac did offer alot of local guys. I've said that it was not Sperbecks fault. It's the perception of the school in the area. No one made one assumption other than that as to why we are losing local guys to outside schools.

You may want to read the post before accusing people of being harsh critics.