Idaho State Big Sky TV prouction HORRIBLE.

[Webcaster]

Echoing Mark, I can tell you that when I was there we worked out a deal for mass communications to do the games, and it was new and being done with new people. Now a days that doesn't cut it.

What honestly needs to happen is ISU needs to hire an executive producer for BengalVision, or BengalTV, or whatever the you want to call it, but that person coordinate all of the students and cameras and handles the directing and set-up. Nowadays you can direct from a laptop (that's exactly how was do it at UNM with four cameras for baseball and soccer), but there needs to be an athletic department guy who oversees it. Think about it...mass comm people have more important things...mass comm things. Do they get money for it? Yes...but I think ISU would be better off using that money for salary and then hiring out students and eventually getting good camera and equipment.

It's truly not fair to rip on huge students, who I'm sure will get better, but it really is a structure thing that needs addressed.

Frank I totally agree with you on this point. From what I understand CMP (Communication, Media and Persuasion ) might be going in a different direction since Tom Hallag left. But i don't know for sure. Yes athletics should take the lead in the sports productions. Mass Comm (old) used working the football games as a job related experience....reel material...

As for equipment there is a perfectly good video switcher sitting in the video room that George bought. I made the decision last year to use the new tricaster to improve the broadcast quality, which last year we fell on our asses a couple times, but it happens. After learning game after game we got better, this year would have been better. More replays better graphics and we could do some more technical stuff ( that is a technical term ). So the money that they pay MC could be spent on cameras and mic's and stuff.

Myself and a partner are thinking about setting up a webcasting system or Flyaway kit, but it would take a couple of years to make it profitable. A contact with the athletics dept would be helpful we could cover all ISU sports.....just a thought...

Thank you

Jim K

 

[notabengalalum]

FWIW, KPVI has one of the worst quality telecast pictures on TV. It's evident in their local studio news programming, morning show, and their local syndicated programs like Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune. I thought it was just me complaining until I heard someone at work mentioning it. It's been like this for years. HD, analog, digital - doesn't matter: their picture sucks. Fortunately, the network sports they carry are up to snuff.
It's hard to make Vanna White look poor but KPVI can do it!
Just what ISU doesn't need - "help" from KPVI.

 

[donny]

I went hunting today. Not many nice days left before the cold and snow flies, so didn't want to waste away an afternoon indoors. After watching some of the games online tonight, ISU needs to stop broadcasting. SUU's is light years ahead of ISU's. So is UNC's.

 

[PBP]

Donny:

Jerry and I didn't have a monitor up in our area of the press box so we couldn't see anything from a webcast standpoint. What happened Saturday that was an issue?

PBP

 

[sasquatch]

PBP, do you, Jerry, or any of the administration ever go back and watch the broadcasts to critique? To compare them to the other schools?

The audio never sounds crystal clear. Yesterday's was no exception. It's like the old days of radio when you know your radio dial is probably tuned to AM 928 or 932, you can hear the station, but it's not as clear as if it was on 930.

The audio went mute at least a couple of times for several minutes at a time. One time was after ISU went up 35-0. If I had to guess, Jerry or somebody hit a mute button and forgot to take it off. Junior high mistake.

It's a smaller picture than the other schools' broadcasts. It doesn't even take up the small screen before it's maximized.

Lots of action missed, again. Do we need to see close ups of the Bengal dancers after every touchdown so that we don't even get to see extra points? The small picture screen doesn't even allow you to see the punter when the team is in punt formation on 4th down.

I'm starting to agree. Forget the broadcasts until they can be done right.

 

[boisebengal]

My biggest frustration with watching these games on the 'net is that many times the cameramen cannot follow the ball, and this is something that shouldn't be that hard to do. Quite often a QB will be completing a 30 or 40 yd. pass play and the cameraman completely misses it because of his inabilities to follow the football. And therefore we're not able to see the play as it happens. Also I think that it would be helpful if the cameraman would zoom in a little more when the plays are run.

 

[PBP]

Sas (and others);

To answer your questions:

1. Yes I do particularly to see how I did and how I need to do things better, but I noticed the audio issues after the Sac. State game. I passed that info along to the radio station just in case something was going on at their end or in case it was Stretch Internet again. I also let some others know about it. Sean told me he appreciated it, rechecked his system and found it to be fine. I think (don't remember for sure) he also said Stretch appeared to be in order. He thinks the issue is with Big Sky TV.

2. I can't say one way or another who else reviews things or compares them to other schools....just don't know.

3. To my knowledge there is no mute button on Jerry's board that would cut off audio. There is a cough button that we can press (so that if we have to cough it won't go out on the air) but that is for individual microphones. Me pressing my button for a second doesn't stop Jerry's audio and visa versa. If there was no audio from anybody (and I'm assuming that goes for crowd noise too) that tells me the problem is somewhere else, maybe in the truck / production, Stretch Internet or maybe Big Sky TV.

4. Have no knowledge of picture size or why it's smaller.

5. Regarding action missed and so forth, that's all the folks working production, announcers have no control over any of that. Again this past week Jerry and I didn't even have a monitor so we have no idea what is happening from the video end. We've had this discussion earlier in the thread and again all I can say is you are working with students for the most part, not trained television personnel and that has limitations. The kids are trying...how fast they progress and if they eventually get better is something that you simply have to wait and see on. Other Big Sky schools have actual networks (i.e. Montana, Montana State, No. Arizona, Eastern Washington immediately come to mind) and that's a totally different animal, you can't even think about comparing them because of the experience of the people working at those organizations and the amount of funds that have available for their use.

I have no control or input (and I don't think Jerry does either) on issues or decisions regarding game production, hiring's, equipment, training, issues with either Stretch Internet or Big Sky TV. All I can do is help call the game, be it football, women's basketball or the coaches show and if I see an issue or problem alert the appropriate individual. As far as canceling all TV video of ISU events until the issues are resolved, I don't think the Big Sky Conference would allow that to take place.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help to you in this area.

PBP

 

[donny]

PBP, I know you aren't responsible for the crappy video production. You asked what happened, people told you, then you excuse it away to Big Sky TV or tell them to deal with it, in so many words. So why ask what's wrong when you obviously don't want to hear it. Sheesh.

Isn't it odd that many of the problems are a "Big Sky TV" problem? Problems that only ISU has? Huh.

 

[votb]

I'll weigh in here, as well.

First of all, let me say that I totally sense your frustrations with the quality of the ISU feeds to Big Sky TV. I suspect the audio problems are actually related to ISU's production. This Saturday I am going to suggest a different option for them to capture our audio to feed into their video. Don't know whether that will help or not. An issue I struggled with this last week was totally unrelated to the TV broadcast but was about the ref's mic...the volume was way too low and I even ended up turning off Mark's and my mics so maybe our listeners could hear the ref announce penalties. I'm not sure that worked too well and have spoken to those in charge of fixing that. It's a problem that only the audio folks in Holt Arena can fix for me.

As is the case with so many things at ISU, we've managed to do some things at a relatively competent level for awhile (i.e. Big Sky TV feed the past 3 or 4 years), but because that operation is not actually part of athletics, when key personnel and supervisors leave, new people with no background of local ops come in and it's almost like starting over from scratch. It's frustrating, but athletics literally does not have the personnel (or money) available to have one person spend the necessary time and dollars to take over the actual operation. When the department you've relied on to do a job loses qualified people, and they try to fix it with duct tape and glue, you end up having to settle for what you get. I suspect that with the Big Sky going to instant replay in the imminent future, some serious discussions will have to be held about this aspect of the operation. If they're not...they should be.

Onward and Upward! GO BENGALS!

 

[Razorpa]

Once again my wife & I attempt to emotionally invest ourselves in ISU football. Rearrange our day around watching the game on America One. But nooooo. After enduring terrible audio, visual, and program quality for the first two and a half quarters "KA-POWY"!!!!! The game dies. Nothing, nadda, see ya later!!!

Soooo frustrating.

Note to those who can influence improvement-

If you want to grow your fan base, and momentum with your fans, Serve them something better!!! The team is doing their part.... COME ON ISU! Get a decent TV solution.

I know it is an ISU issue, not America One, because I can watch the Montana game just fine.....

Urgh....

 

[bengalcub]

Razorpa--I am with you, sir...

 

[biobengal]

Hate to say this but I would rather have nothing.... with zero expectations.

 

[Webcaster]

I am so sorry this season of football is so screwed-up. But, it was the choice of the head of the Communication,Media and Persuasion Dept. I asked if I could help out with this season but he said that my replacement and him could handle it.

VOTD the capabilities for instant replays are there for all cameras right now. Newteck also has a video switcher that will record all cameras and you can switch between video recordings. That was next on my capital purchases.

As for the booth audio where it comes out of Jerrys mixer it is the responsibility of the webcast crew to cut the audio....I suggested a fix for that and I know it would work.

There are so many things that a person who is starting out needs to know, from the top down. The camera operators have to know something about football. Right now there are "NO" tv production people running cameras, only still photographers. But with a little help they should learn and a lot of prodding from the director. Also the engineers should know what is going on, but sometimes they do not retain everything, which is no fault of theirs. They rely heavily on the head guy, but since the head guy is "Brand New" and never worked with this equipment before he is stuck between a rock and a hard spot.

With old Mass Comm we used any production was a learning tool, for the students. But right now there are very few TV production students and the leaders are new to sports technical production and to television production itself. When I left it seemed that the program was changing direction but that might not be true. Where with Tom and myself we had worked in television and knew bits of engineering and had experience in television production.

What is the answer to what is happening, the program is either going to grow and get better......or flop completely on its face. Sorry but thats the way it is. I had some very bad games in the eight years, but with the help of my crews we always got better and recovered.

I will not go back to producing the football games, life is so much happier for me with my wife and having weekends off. She doesn't bitch at me that I'm always away on Saturdays or I am not paying attention to her as I am studying video production on youtube and reading tech manuals.

I wish we could get a commercial station like KPAZ-Tv for montana/ state to get behind ISU sports, but it is a very expensive proposition to start out with. A lot of commercial time needs to be sold which means many of the local businesses would have to pop for more money.

Side note, I really did not enjoy my Monday emails from Jeff and Kalee about the show... Oh one other note, we have to make sure the video board is working great and everything gets run on it in time. You have a lot thrown on the back of these people..........

If you want to bitch at somebody just call or email.......... who ever and express yourself.


Jim K

 

[Spudhead]

The guys at IdahoSports.com put out a better production of HIGH SCHOOL GAMES!

http://idahosports.com/gamestreams/player/default.aspx?webcastid=6380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[PBP]

I found what Webcaster said to be interesting.

It sounds like it has been a combination of events from decisions involving individuals, decisions made by individuals to operational issues that have all combined to produce the current situation. Bad luck I guess.

I was struck by his comments that there are no TV production people working cameras, only still photographers and by his comment that there are very few TV production people in Mass Comm.

I don't know if the people involved has been declining for a few years or not but I do know that a few years ago (I think it was three) I contacted Tom and asked if any of his students would be interested in doing a live five minute or so halftime interview during the women's basketball home games, in order to give Brad and I a little time to get up, stretch our legs, use the bathroom things like that.

Tom got no responses from anybody. I was shocked and Tom admitted he was as well. Normally you'd think someone would jump at the chance to get something that can be put on a tape for future use in getting a job in the real world of TV / radio etc. What we wound up doing, and still do, is Brad now records his "news, notes, facts and factoids" from around the Big Sky Conference, which works well but it would have be nice to see if the other idea would have worked... as well as give a student an opportunity. Like the old saying says though, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."

If Web is right and the number of interested students at ISU in this field isn't there then that lack of manpower is going to force the issue one way or another....if you don't have the people you're going to have to get them from someplace if you want to keep doing the webcast end.

I was talking with Frank Mercogliano, who is now at New Mexico, setting up an interview with him for the coaches show, and he said something I thought was really smart. At UNM they use students for their camera work on games but he said they are also out shooting practices every day in order to get a feel for how you have to shoot a football game as well as more experience. Don't know if they do that at ISU but it may be something worth considering.

Jerry's point about the replay system coming into play, perhaps as soon as next year, is also worth noting. The technical capability may already be there but if the camera person misses the play in question, for whatever reason, it's gone and that could determine if a game is won or lost.

PBP

 

[votb]

I received the following email tonight from ISU Athletic Director, Jeff Tingey. he wrote it in response to a message he received from Sin City Spudhead.

Sin City Spudhead:

Thanks for your note. We need to hear feedback to get better. I have never watched our broadcasts; I've always been at home games.
We do find ourselves in an interesting predicament though with our Big Sky TV. This is something that the conference is looking at for all schools.
I am open to suggestions, if you have any. In the past few years we have approached our NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX affiliates, along with the Video production department from the local newspaper asking for their services to do a better job than what we are currently doing.There is also a local ad agency in town with video production capabilities that we have approached. Each and all have declined. Beyond them, we don't have any options. The only group to accept was the Department of Mass Communication at the University and they have been doing the work for the past few years.
We do need to find a way to invest more money into our online feed, however to this point I've put all extra funding into the football and basketball programs, trying to get them on par with the rest of the conference. To this point it has worked for football.
Do you know of any company/firm local to Pocatello or Idaho Falls?

Jeff Tingey

GO BENGALS!!

Make it a great day!

 

[donny]

I have never watched our broadcasts; I've always been at home games.
Jeff Tingey

And there's your problem.

P.S. Anybody in the athletic department who knows how to turn on a computer who can show Jeff how to watch previous broadcasts?

 

[PBP]

Donny:

With respect I don't think that's the issue. It's clear from Jeff's e-mail, to me, that he knows the situation needs to be improved and has for a few years....otherwise why would he have contacted the local stations and the local video production company?

They are between a rock and a hard place.

No one with professional experience and background wants to take this on according to his e-mail and the mass comm department (based on Web's e-mail) doesn't even have students who want to go into broadcast production running cameras (Web's comment that they are having to use people with still photography background) which tells me they mustn't have a lot of folks in the first place to chose from to do anything.

Not trying to 'defend' anybody (want to make that clear before someone resorts to that response)...just saying look at the facts. What can they do? It's not like they can contact stations / groups in Salt Lake or Boise or Spokane...they wouldn't take it on and even if they would the cost would be astronomical.

Now if somebody out there has a million bucks they can donate (like at Northern Arizona two years ago) that would solve the issue I guess since money talks louder than anything else.

I think it's also unfortunate that the local professional groups want nothing to do with this although I don't know the specific terms of the offer. You'd just hope that they might be willing to bite the bullet for a little bit in order to help the community. Of course given what recently happened at KPVI (Channel 6) and their decision to discontinue sports coverage per se maybe I shouldn't be surprised at all.

PBP

 

[Spudhead]

I sent him this thread because for every one of us complaining about the production, there's probably at least 10 more who shake their heads in disgust and begin to lose interest.

I guess I'm still a little confused. IF the Big Sky requires all schools to produce video, and IF ISU has nobody who will do it, then what? If the Mass Comm guys decide to drop this, then what? Is there a backup plan?

 

[bengalcub]

What about a work study program? What about RS kids or players with season ending injuries? What about checking with kids at the high schools for kids that want to do internships?

What we are being told is that every other school in the BSC can do it but ISU cannot.

It's fixable and it will be fixed when it is forced to be fixed.