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Men's basketball postmortem 2014-2015

biobengal

Active member
Worst out of 12 (currently), @ Weber, EWU and Idaho remain. Good chance at bottom finish.

But this is is not about that, what do we look like next year? I am very worried about the loss of Hansen; despite the terrible record ISU has posted lately, Hansen was fun to watch, especially when he took some games under his wing.

In 2015-2016 will we be better? The schedule is not out yet but we can be sure it includes the requisite number of guaranteed losses and wins against D2 and NAIA. Perhaps ISU should move to Reed permanently; no longer have to set up the bball arena will save some $?

IMO, bball at ISU is on life support and needs an injection.
 
Although we are probably going to finnish last, I would say the organization is NOT dead. Over the past two years, we have had a lot of close games that we JUST couldn't finish. A ton of games that we have lost by 3-5 points. We are not getting blown out, and we hang with conference leading teams like Sacramento. I have not missed a football game in 7 years, and every one of my friends laughed at me when I said they would win 7, maybe 8 games. We almost won 9! My point being, ISU football had several games over the past two years prior to this winning season, that we almost won and our record didnt show the talent. This IS and will be the same for basketball.
We have break out stars in Geno as a freshman, and Wilson, Hall, Bradley, Nakken (has been good support) and we introduce Topalovic as a true athletic 7 footer next year.
I agree Hansen is a loss next year, sure. Seniors generally are. Thats the nature of college sports. But I feel that we ARE going to go up from here. THINK OF THE COMBO WITH GENO LUZCANDO AND TOPALOVIC AS JUNIORS AND SENIORS!
positive thinking..... GO BENGALS!
 
Sorry, but the program is as sick as I've ever seen it. I'm not encouraged at all. There was improvement with the football program by season 3.

We're going to finish dead last in the conference, but it's good to know there will be an asterisk next to our name that says we had a lot of close games but just couldn't finish. :sad:
 
Wait!....are they REALLY going to put an asterisk next to ISU for all the close games we lost!?

....Lol, jk. I know where your feelings are coming from and they definitely have a lot of reality to them. I do see some spark in these younger players that should help us out in the next few years. So im just hoping for the best.
 
At least ol' Paul J. Schneider is reminding us that basketball is doing okay in the western part of the state...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PaulJKBOI/status/568761646996279297[/tweet]
 
The bengals have nothing to tell players after this year. The only thing that could spark optimism would be a new coach with a new plan.
 
Not gonna happen. He signed an extension for another 3 years, and there's no way we pay out multi-years on a contract. I think he's too old and set in his ways to shake up staff or play style or recruiting. I think he'll be 70 years old when the contract is finally up.
 
Contrary to what some people think, I believe that it isn't X's and O's that hold the ISU men back. If you can defend the three and hit the three and shoot decent from the free throw line you will be competitive in Big Sky play,

The zone gives up the three and I understand that but if ISU was average from the three point line and average from the free throw line this season, I feel like we would be singing a different tune right now.

I think Geno will be a stud. Justin Smith may be good too. But for the most part the young kids in the program are not D-1 caliber players and most were fall back plans when other kids did not commit.

If ISU wants to win they need to go JC HEAVY and sprinkle in a few HS players here and there.

If the Bengals gets a handful of good JC players the tide may change in a few years. I see next year being worse than this year no matter who they get.

Players love to play for Evan's and I want to see him be successful. However, going into year four I would have expected to see more young kids that were ready to contribute. Lots of scholarships have been wasted on HS kids that left the team or can't produce at this level. When you go heavy in the HS route it needs to be paying off by year four. It's not gonna.
 
So what you're saying is we'd be singing a different tune if we scored more points than the other team? :smile:

There are 7 JC players on a roster of 13. That's more than half the roster. The problem isn't the quantity of JC players, it's the quality. You need good recruiting. From what I can tell, we have one assistant coach left over from the last staff who recruits the Midwest. And we have two assistant coaches who were players at SUU under Evans and their coaching/recruiting experience is primarily JC.

The program is no better than it was from 3 years ago, and it's worse than it was 1 year ago.
 
Yes, recruiting is an issue. But JC's don't often play their best until late in the season or into their second year. Yes, Gino is going to be a great player. Who else shows potential. We shall see I guess. Scoring is also an issue. Seldom do the Bengals score 70 or more. But the real issue is stubborn reliance on zone defense and a failure to pressure the ball. We give up 12 3-point shots and lose by 10? I would rather make teams score two point field goals than 12 three's. Maybe the Bengals could win games by four than lose by four while giving up a sack full of three point baskets. But what do I know. I don't know nothing about nothing. I am glad only a few people read this board so that only a few people know I am an idiot.
 
I said GOOD JC players :). Hansen, Solarin and Sanchez type kids are good enough to play here.

I get the fact that ISU gets killed by the three and it would be nice to see solid man defense on those nights. My point only being that if ISU could hit a few more shots they could have won some games. This team is near the top in scoring defense and at near the bottom in scoring offense. They are dead last in FT shooting, 2nd from last in 3 point shooting and last in assists.

I agree that JC kids don't play their best in the first year but how many kids have came in on scholarship lately and stayed with the team long enough to become upperclassman?

I am tired of seeing HS kids being signed that did not score at a high pace in HS and JC kids that couldn't score at the Junior College level. If they cannot score there, they cannot score D-1.
 
I think it's a combination of recruiting and approach that has made this such a difficult season for Idaho State. There is no question the team lacks talent in specific areas -- in particular the ability to shoot the three. They also lack the ability to defend the three -- Idaho State is ninth in the league in three-point defense (42 percent).

Some of this is athletic ability, or lack thereof. Some is defensive approach. There is no question, in today's game with its reliance on three-point shooting, that you have to have the flexibility to play a number of different defenses, including man to man, in particular when you're playing a team that's "in a zone" from three. ISU occasionally switched to man, or a box in one vs. MSU, but if you're not committed to practicing and playing man over the course of a season, you're probably not going to be overly successful playing it when you jump into it out of desperation. We saw a lot of desperation "man" on the part of the Bengals this year.

There's no question free throw shooting killed the Bengals this season. There were so many close games that could have been decided differently had ISU shot 75 percent in those games. Bill Evans is fond of saying, "if you want a team that can rebound, you have to recruit a rebounder." Ergo, if you want decent free throw shooters, you have to recruit players who have demonstrated they are good foul shooters. You're not always going to find good FT shooters, of course, especially when you're looking for big men who can block shots and rebound, for example. But when you recruit a LOT of guys who have demonstrated they are lacking at the foul line, you're going to shoot 69 percent like the ISU team did this year in conference.

Percentage-wise, ISU wasn't a bad three-point shooting team -- they are third in conference only play at 42 percent, but they were last in 3s per game (4.9) because, other than Chris Hansen, nobody else was much good at it, and the guys who couldn't shoot the 3 listened to Evans and didn't take them. (Ben Wilson may set a record this year for the fewest three-point attempts by a starting PG -- he's only tried 3 all season).

So what does next year look like? The only experienced players who will be returning are Wilson, Evan Hall, Marcus Bradley, and Geno Luzcando. Wilson actually put together a decent season, albeit an unconventional one for a PG. He shot a respectable 43 percent from the floor (and improved in league play), had a decent 95 to 55 assist to turnover ratio, averaged 7 points and 3.4 rebounds, and had 33 steals. He got progressively more productive as the year went on, and while he won't meet the definition of a traditional PG, he'll likely be a positive part of the club next year.

The other returners with significant experience are coming off very difficult seasons. Hall regressed from a positive sophomore season, with his shooting numbers falling across the board. Bradley started out well, but saw his playing time drop as the season went on. That was likely related to the very one-dimensional nature of his offensive game -- he's a shooter who averaged only 2 rebounds a game, and has a total of 4 assists (vs. 16 turnovers). He looks like he has the ability to be a decent Big Sky conference player next year, but he's going to have to expand his game significantly and become much more consistent.

Luzcando has a lot of obvious athletic ability, and his 18-point night against Montana Thursday night gives a glimpse into his offensive potential, but he has a lot of work to do on his shot. He's shooting 37 percent from the field, 30 from 3 and 52 from the foul line, none of which are acceptable numbers for a starter.

There are two "role players" scheduled to come back next year -- Andre Slavik, who struggled to contribute (he took only 12 shots and had only 20 rebounds in 21 games); and Eric Nakken, who is basically a three-point shooting specialist right now.

The three players who redshirted this year are Justin Smith, who shot only 30 percent from the floor and had 8 turnovers vs. 0 assists as a freshman; Novak Topalovic, the 7 footer who averaged less than 3 points a game while playing minimal minutes as a senior in high school; and Spencer Nicolds, a 6-7 small forward who averaged 11 points and 5.5 rebounds as a senior in high school. All three have decent athletic ability -- can run and jump -- but only Smith has put up significant offensive numbers in high school, and Smith is the only one I would expect to approach double figures in scoring next year. The Bengal coaching staff has to hope that Smith's redshirt experience pays the same dividends as Nnamdi Ezenwa's did this year.

As far as newcomers are concerned, Ali Faruqbey, the 6-2 guard who averaged 16 ppg and shot 38 percent from three as a freshman at Arizona Western, is the most likely to get a starting opportunity next season. Faruqbey was injured earlier this season and hasn't appeared in any games so far at Arizona Western, so he'll likely arrive as a sophomore in eligibility.

Gary Chivichyan, a 6-5 prep schooler from California, has verbally committed to Idaho State. If he signs and arrives in Pocatello, I would expect to see him get every opportunity to earn playing time as a designated marksmen. He's had several big games this year, including at least one when he drained 8 threes, and while it's difficult to tell what kind of competition he's playing against, his video shows what appears to be a smooth, productive shooter. He'll have to learn to play defense and fit in with his new coach's style (need we remind folks of the last California guard recruited here?) -- and most importantly, the coaching staff needs to make sure he follows through on his commitment and signs here.

I'm assuming Clark Wilkinson, the 6-6 forward from Highland High School, will return from his mission this fall and join the ISU roster, and I would assume the Bengals will redshirt him if at all possible. That would leave two open scholarships to fill this spring. ISU has offered several junior college players in the last month (see the several threads on this site). We're also seeing Bill Evans and his staff at several local high school games in recent weeks, which may indicate some interest in a few of the local kids at places like Century and Bonneville, if the junior college talent search fails to pay off once again this spring.

In summary, for ISU to have a season stimulating enough to reverse the significant decline in attendance a couple of things are going to have to happen: experienced players like Hall, Bradley, Wilson, Smith and Luzcando are going to have to take significant steps forward in production next year; Faruqbey, Chivichyan and the other two recruits coming in next year are going to have to be major contributors immediately; and young players like Topalovic and Nicolds are going to have to demonstrate enough potential to get people excited about what's to come. None of that is impossible, but
it's highly unlikely that all of it will come to pass in one season. I'd be pleased to see some of it.
 
new coach with a new plan? who's going to hire him? tingey? unless fullerton guides his hand in hiring a good basketball coach like he did with football, it won't happen. isu fucked up, first by allowing bubb to handpick and hire his buddy O'Brien before the season was complete, then by hiring a coach with an overall and conference losing record.

signs zamberlin to an extension, buys out the contract and eats 6 figures
signs evans to an extension, ?
 
If you are going to pick and choose than you also have to note that he hired Seton, arguably the best women's coach in program history, having gone to the NCAA's and WNIT and will hold every major coaching record by the end of the year and Julie Wright for softball and Chad Teichert for volleyball.

Fair is fair.

PBP
 
With all due respect, when was the last time Sports Center led off with women's softball or volleyball highlights?

At the risk of spurring skippy on to give us another lesson on the amount of subsidies programs at our level receive, how many money games do softball or volleyball play in order to bring in additional revenue for the department? How much in revenue do either of those sports bring in?

Lots of frustration with basketball. I'll spare my :twocents: for now. The MSU beat writer said this weekend we are officially eliminated from the tournament. I thought there was a chance we could still tie Weber and Idaho for the final spot, but maybe they beat us in a tie breaker.
 
Sas:

I'll repeat with respect, you can't judge an AD or an athletic department only on the sports that you or any fan happens to so like. That's cherry-picking, plain and simple.

An AD or department is judged on EVERY sport and EVERY coach in the program.

No question men's basketball has been poor the past decade or so but that takes nothing away from the other ISU programs that are doing well, the coaches currently in place and the department that hired them.

You have to look at the overall product being put out, all sports in my opinion, and the facilities that have been upgraded over the past five years as well. Considering the success of volleyball, softball, women's basketball, soccer... now football over the past five years (look at the number of Big Sky titles, post season appearances for examples) and add in the facilities that have been upgraded the differences between where the department was before Tingey compared to now is like night and day.

Just my opinion.

That's a good question by the way on money games for softball and volleyball. Don't know if they have the same requirements that football and men's and women's basketball do.

PBP
 
PBP said:
If you are going to pick and choose than you also have to note that he hired Seton, arguably the best women's coach in program history, having gone to the NCAA's and WNIT and will hold every major coaching record by the end of the year and Julie Wright for softball and Chad Teichert for volleyball.

Fair is fair.

PBP

well since this is a basketball board, I only mentioned basketball. jesus pbp, get a clue.

but since you want fair, here goes.

women's basketball - average coach. he went to the ncaa's led by a senior who was big sky tournament mvp. oh, and she was a newlee recruit. last year, losing record. this year, losing record. willing to bet whether they make the big sky tournament this year?

softball - so far so good, except she and the team choke when there's pressure. no ncaa tournament yet. conference is in its infancy with many 1, 2, 3 year old programs. let's judge when everybody is even.

volleyball - agreed, good coach.

tennis - who cares

cross country - who cares

track - who cares

golf - who cares
 
There's a lot I can say here, but I'm gonna just pipe in a few things. There are some inherent struggles that unless ISU can pick the entire campus up or build it's own airport with cheap flights, won't change.

Before I even get to men's hoops, Seton won a title in his fourth season. We are seriously gonna go with "but his best player was a Newlee recruit"? That's the argument. He coached her for four years ... that's his kid by that point. That's just silly to go with that argument.

Sillier is the softball argument. Really? Let's judge when everyone is even? Do you realize the mess that Julie had to recover from? Three coaches in three years, one who embezzled, one who basically had a breakdown. Also...that team has won two conference titles in softball. In Idaho. Playing no home games until midseason. On a field in the middle of...well...a field. With no budget. And you are gonna say "Well they haven't been to the NCAAs"? I mean I'm calling that weak sauce....seriously.

Now for men's hoops. Issue number one is regardless of if they play in Reed or in Holt, they are not the primary tenant and they are set up for failure on the road. Let's just go with a semi-easy trip....Sacramento. They have to leave five hours before the flight on a bus to make the plane, so say a 2 p.m. flight. OK, so you are leaving Poky at 9. Guess what....can't get a good practice in beforehand, so now you have to try to get that practice in the night before a game the night before the game. It's rushed an not condusive. Do you know what Syracuse does on road trips? They sleep. They don't practice....they sleep, watch a little film, eat a little ice cream, and sleep.

So leave at 9 am ... airport by 11:30 am, team checked in by 12:30 p.m. Eat airport food for lunch.
Flight at 2, land at whenever, and by the time you have the vans rented (no money for a charter bus unless that's changed) and you get to the hotel it's almost 5 ... so you have to get a quick snack before practice at 7, but it has to be small. Then after practice is over at 8:30, then you go out to eat, back to the hotel, meet in the coaches room for a quick film session (can't afford a meeting room so you cram 13 players in the head coaches room).

By the time you are done, and really with no downtime....it's 11 or midnight.

If you could practice and do all that before leaving, it would be better....but you can't, hence why it's so rough for ISU to win road games. I wish I made all that stuff up but that was a typical trip to Sacramento.

Pregame meals for ISU when I was there were in restaurants and things....because it's cheaper. Harder to regulate food intake that way. Hard to schedule practice around everything else in the building and same for Reed. Have to schedule around classes and other things like intermurals.

All of that is to say there are certain things that will make it hard to compete in basketball, and Jeff has his hands tied. Where he was able to make headway was in boosting the recruiting budgets and things like that, so I think Bill needs an opportunity to see what he can do as far as recruiting properly without being hamstrung. Make no mistake, at ISU the set up is such that it's easier to fix football then basketball. The fact Jeff was able to make the recruiting piece happen was a major coup for him.

The other issue is the schedule. ISU has to stop being the nail for other programs. I think a few years ago the schedule saw about three home-and-homes and things, and that was good. ISU has to limit the number of guarantee games going out, and limit the two NAIA teams coming in. It's old and the fanbase doesn't care about beating Westminster and Montana Western. They really don't. I hated those games when I was there.

Anyways...my $0.02. It's been a frustrating season to say the least watching from afar (remember I have a degree from ISU ... I pay attention).

If you are judging ADs there, not sure how you can bitch about a guy who has gotten money donated, upgraded facilities and fixed the football program and hired some really good coaches. ISU should do everything in it's power to keep Jeff Tingey around.

Former ISU SID
 
Donny:

The bottom line was you were commenting about the job some folks were doing in the athletic department. My point was you can't single out a sport to make a case, it has to be looked at in total.

Just because you don't care about a certain sport or sports doesn't change that basic principle.

I think the women will make the post season tournament for the 12th year in a row and considering the number of young kids on the team, that would be a hell of an accomplishment in my opinion. As far as betting on it, I can't go there since I like my job and would want to keep it. You never know who is reading these boards.

Regarding the "record", it's a fact that with having to play money games (along with football and men's basketball) having a winning record overall is going to be hard to come by many years. The important thing is to try to have a winning record in conference play and the women's program has done that the past FIVE YEARS STRAIGHT, just in case you forgot. They have a chance to get it again this year with three games remaining.

Based on what I've read from you over the years you seem to be pretty bitter towards ISU athletics in general, that's fine...that's your right. I'm just sorry you can't enjoy the athletes and the success that some of the programs have had. Again that's your choice.

Excuse me now while I go out and try to get a clue. Can it be bought? Where do I find it?? Any recommendations on hiring a good clue finder???

PBP
 

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