Move to the FBS(I-A)

[ManOfVision]

Another way to look at the MWC/WAC issue, is to ask how many schools could ever dream of moving up to the Big 12 or Pac 10. In my opinion, I could see several schools in the MWC conference being considered for one of those BCS conferences within the next generation or so (I feel like I could make a decent argument for everybody but SDSU and New Mexico, and yes I realize the Pac 10 doesn't like BYU's church influence). How many schools in the WAC could muster similar credentials? None. Most would be laughed at if they approached one of the BCS conferences with an expansion bid.

actually SDSU has all the tools to go up. Here are the schools that can make the PAC-10 academically, attendance wise, all around athletics. The PAC-10 will not what a military academy, nor a church school, nor a team in Fort Worth Texas.

MWC
Utah
San Diego State


WAC
Hawaii
Fresno State
Boise State

The rest in the MWC wouldn't make it

TCU-To far away
Air Force- Doubt Pac-10 will negotiate with a school or academy of that type
Colorado State- not enough attendance, does not do well out side of football
Wyoming- No support in any sports, program is bad
BYU- No church schools
New Mexico- Small chance but they have most of the credentials.
UNLV- not enough attendance

As for the WAC a few could make it, most have no hope

Hawaii- If traveling was no issue they have the attendance, support,a nd the all around sports
Boise State- Fan support is league, politics support it, fail in all around sports
FSU- They have the attendance and the support, and are in California

The rest can forget it

No MWC team would ever have a chance, its the Pac-10, all teams are on the West Coast, not the rocky mountains. For the WAC they have only 1 team that can make it on the West Coast, but the top 3 in the WAC would be more qualified then any MWC team.

Sorry, I don't see it. The Pac 10 is suspicious of states that aren't states. Hence, SDSU, PSU, BSU, FSU and any other such institution would not be admitted to the Pac 10 based on perception alone.

Also, you say that you have to be on the west coast to be in the Pac 10, yet don't account for UA and ASU. The Pac 10 once seriously considered adding Colorado and Texas, so geographic location is clearly not THAT important.

 

[Wyokie]

PAC-10 has standing offers to both Colorado and Texas to join at any time they want.

 

[forestgreen]

Texas would be a great pick-up for the Pac-10, Colorado not so much. I know both schools were offered at one time, but I doubt it's still on for UC.

 

[Wyokie]

Texas would be a great pick-up for the Pac-10, Colorado not so much. I know both schools were offered at one time, but I doubt it's still on for UC.

I've been keeping up on the realignment rumors and the PAC-10 offer for CU-Boulder is still there for the taking.

 

[VikThunder1]

Texas would be a great pick-up for the Pac-10, Colorado not so much. I know both schools were offered at one time, but I doubt it's still on for UC.

I've been keeping up on the realignment rumors and the PAC-10 offer for CU-Boulder is still there for the taking.

Pac 10 expansion is off the table since they went to a full 9 game conference season. That leaves only 3 non-conference games. USC plays Notre Dame annually so that leaves only 2 non-conference for them.

 

[VikThunder1]

Another way to look at the MWC/WAC issue, is to ask how many schools could ever dream of moving up to the Big 12 or Pac 10. In my opinion, I could see several schools in the MWC conference being considered for one of those BCS conferences within the next generation or so (I feel like I could make a decent argument for everybody but SDSU and New Mexico, and yes I realize the Pac 10 doesn't like BYU's church influence). How many schools in the WAC could muster similar credentials? None. Most would be laughed at if they approached one of the BCS conferences with an expansion bid.

actually SDSU has all the tools to go up. Here are the schools that can make the PAC-10 academically, attendance wise, all around athletics. The PAC-10 will not what a military academy, nor a church school, nor a team in Fort Worth Texas.

MWC
Utah
San Diego State


WAC
Hawaii
Fresno State
Boise State

The rest in the MWC wouldn't make it

TCU-To far away
Air Force- Doubt Pac-10 will negotiate with a school or academy of that type
Colorado State- not enough attendance, does not do well out side of football
Wyoming- No support in any sports, program is bad
BYU- No church schools
New Mexico- Small chance but they have most of the credentials.
UNLV- not enough attendance

As for the WAC a few could make it, most have no hope

Hawaii- If traveling was no issue they have the attendance, support,a nd the all around sports
Boise State- Fan support is league, politics support it, fail in all around sports
FSU- They have the attendance and the support, and are in California

The rest can forget it

No MWC team would ever have a chance, its the Pac-10, all teams are on the West Coast, not the rocky mountains. For the WAC they have only 1 team that can make it on the West Coast, but the top 3 in the WAC would be more qualified then any MWC team.

The only school that fits the Pac 10 profile is Utah. SDSU, FSU, BSU and Hawaii are all not major national level research universities. Pac 10 Presidents are the final arbiters and they want academic matches. There is no way on earth that Boise State is anywhere near an academic match for the Pac 10. Do you really think Boise State is comparable academically to UW, UO, OSU and WSU much less Stanford and Berkeley?

 

[PSUVikings2]

Good points by all of you. In reality nobody will be joining the Pac-10 for a very very long time, if anyone does period. the only major conference re-alignment that COULD happen within the next 10 years is the rebirth or the Southwestern Conference. Which will break the Big 10 into small pieces(they just may actually have 10 teams) and shatter the Big 12 for good.

 

[Pounder]

Tom Hansen has even admitted the following:

The Pac-10 will only admit schools that meet the academic criteria AND, even more importantly...

...expand the conference television footprint.

Your homework for the fall is to look at the map of what regional matchups are shown where by ABC. Usually, the Pac-10 game is viewed by every TV market west of the Continental Divide. That INCLUDES Utah and Idaho. That is why the Pac-10 doesn't add Utah.

The Pac-10 also believes (and ABC capitulates) that it owns the markets referenced here. Look at San Diego State attendance for most schools versus what happens if UCLA makes an appearance. Listen to Fresno fans fighting with Pac-10 fans on Fresno radio. See the U Dub and U O fans have their bar parties in Boise on Saturdays. Do I have to mention how Portland breaks out? Since the general growth pattern out west is of people migrating from California to EVERY state, to a large degree, ABC continues to be justified in their broadcast decisions. Bolstered, maybe? I have to believe, BTW, that the ratings also justify this.

Now, let's say Utah triples in population and the MWC finds a better TV outlet. THEN the Pac-10 may be forced to make an expansion decision. EVEN THEN, since 6 schools outside California want assurances of one Southern California appearance every year for recruiting purposes, so they may not even support expansion at that point.

BTW, I'm not sure that the Pac-10 dropped Colorado off the table after the spat Washington had with Colorado. Of course, the spat had to do with wooing Rick Neuheisel away from Colorado, so the fact that this became a self-egging on Dub's part may have changed a couple things.

 

[VikThunder1]

Good points by all of you. In reality nobody will be joining the Pac-10 for a very very long time, if anyone does period. the only major conference re-alignment that COULD happen within the next 10 years is the rebirth or the Southwestern Conference. Which will break the Big 10 into small pieces(they just may actually have 10 teams) and shatter the Big 12 for good.

I agree. I think Southwestern Conference rebirth is the most likely scenario. I'd see it breaking the Big 12. However, the Big 10 is a prestige conference. Any school leaving the Big 10 would be nuts in my opinion. Always fun to discuss possibilities though.

 

[ManOfVision]

Where is this stuff about a SWC rebirth coming from? I've never heard such a rumor and am curious to know who you think would be included?

 

[PSUVikings2]

Where is this stuff about a SWC rebirth coming from? I've never heard such a or and am curious to know who you think would be included?

Texas and Oklahoma have stated they are sick of the Big 12 and are saying that they will leave, which has triggered talk of Missouri leaving to the Big 10 and bringing in TCU and blah blah blah, when it happens things will be more clear.But talk is the SWC will reform if Texas and OU leave the Big 12.

 

[Pounder]

What's the value to a SWC rebirth?

Several dozen schools want to be in the same conference as Texas... and Oklahoma probably doesn't hurt, either... and Nebraska certainly helps anyone's road gate when they have trouble with attendance.

Texas has the same goal I alluded to when discussing the Pac-10: increase the size of their TV contract income. Unless a new SWC pulls off Alabama and Tennessee (and that's a ridiculous notion given how much CBS and ESPN are paying SEC schools), Texas will likely lose money in the proposition... and the other schools you'd think would jump to a new SWC won't do it without Texas. That discussion is a non-starter.

If I'm wrong, it would only be because Texas and ESPN come to an agreement to pay a new SWC conference the same amount as the current Big 12 contract... only with less schools to spread the money around. You have the possibility of 8-10 schools leaving the Big 12. I can guess right away that Baylor and Kansas State wouldn't be invited, and Iowa State and either Oklahoma State or Texas Tech would have reason for concern.

16 Big East schools, only half play football. One school has issues and the whole froth is threatened. They can't add another football school without moving heaven and earth to redistribute TV income (which ain't that much), and basketball, while it initially provided the bulk of what TV $ growth they actually got, is not a good long-term bet. I do think there will be a split, and that will loosen a couple BCS slots up, for Memphis and whomever else the football schools wish to endorse, then the dominoes start scattering. That's still at least 3 years away, so ixnay on the breath-holding exercises.

 

[Pounder]

I should add something here. I did consider one pet theory of many out there... that Texas is disgusted with the way Nebraska has so many "partial qualifiers" and loads of walk-ons in their football team, hence Texas and Oklahoma want to get away from Nebraska. I don't put full stock in that one, and if it's true, it would be the height of stupidity on the part of Texas. Nebraska adds money to other schools' coffers, plain and simple.

 

[PSUVikings2]

Once again the WAC is on top, the MWC is quickly fading.

1. WAC: The getting is good out west. Check out this roll call of coaches: Hawaii's June Jones, San Jose State's Dick Tomey, Nevada's Chris Ault, Fresno State's Pat Hill, Boise State's Chris Petersen. Yeah, pretty good.
And I happen to think New Mexico State's Hal Mumme is an eclectic sideline Caesar who has the Aggies poised for big things. Add it all up, and there are two legit Top 25 teams in this league -- and four other strong programs.

2. C-USA. There is an abundance of quality in a conference I like to think of as "SEC light." The problem: There's a gross imbalance between the East and West Divisions. The East is loaded with the likes of UCF, East Carolina, Marshall, Memphis and Southern Miss, while the West is considered softer because of tiny, private schools like Tulsa, SMU, Tulane and Rice. The only West private school that has consistently carried its weight is Tulsa.

3. Mountain West: I love the schools at the top -- TCU, BYU and Utah. All could be or are Top 25 teams. But there's a massive drop after the Big Three. The best of the rest is New Mexico, which never gets enough credit under Rocky Long. After that, it's not out of the question to envision coaching changes at San Diego State, UNLV and Wyoming if things don't improve this fall. No one knows what to expect at Air Force with rookie coach Troy Calhoun.

4. MAC: The cold hard fact is this: The starters on teams in the top half of this league are as good as most middle-of-the-pack Big Ten team starters.

The only difference is depth. What deflates this ranking is the fact there doesn't appear to be an elite team, but you know one will emerge. Maybe even two. I think perennial powers like Miami, Toledo and Bowling Green are poised to rebound. Western Michigan and Ohio aren't going anywhere, while Northern Illinois always is salty under Joe Novak. And, get this: Ball State and Temple are on the rise.

5. Sun Belt: The addition of Mario Cristobal at Florida International is big. And I think North Texas' hiring of Todd Dodge may end up being the sleeper hire of the offseason. Larry Blakeney is one of the best coaches you've never heard of, which is why Troy will carry the league's banner. And Middle Tennessee's Rick till and Arkansas State's Steve Roberts have made their programs tough outs.

The non- boys

Top 60 non-BCS players

1. Colt Brennan, QB, Hawaii
2. Tommy Blake, DE, TCU
3. Jarett Dillard, WR, Rice
4. Ian Johnson, RB, Boise State
5. Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State
6. John Greco, OT Toledo
7. Jason Jones, DT, Eastern Michigan
8. Chase Ortiz, DE, TCU
9. Nate Davis, QB, Ball State
10. Jason Phillips, DE, TCU
11. Davone Bess, WR, Hawaii
12. Albert McClellan, DE, Marshall
13. Quintin Demps, S, UTEP
14. Ezra Butler, LB, Nevada
15. Dwight Lowery, CB, San Jose State
16. Marty Tadman, S, Boise State
17. Omar Haugabook, QB, Troy
18. Anthony Alridge, RB, Houston
19. Brent Casteel, WR, Utah
20. Dan LeFevour, QB, Central Michigan
21. Kory Lichtensteiger, C, Bowling Green
22. Shawn Nelson, TE, Southern Miss
23. Kory Sperry, TE, Colorado State
24. Barry Church, S, Toledo
25. Robert Conley, G, Utah
26. Kyle Bell, RB, Colorado State
27. Tyrell Johnson, S, Arkansas State
28. Doug Legursky, C, Marshall
29. Chase Holbrook, QB, New Mexico State
30. Damon Nickson, S, Middle Tennessee
31. Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan
32. Jason Phillips, LB, TCU
33. Gerald McRath, LB, Southern Miss
34. Darius Hill, TE, Ball State
35. Donnie Avery, WR, Houston
36. Brandon Sumrall, S, Southern Miss
37. Kevin Smith, RB, UCF
38. Bryan Anderson, WR, Central Michigan
39. Robert Henderson, DE, Southern Miss
40. DeAndre Wright, CB, New Mexico
41. Kalvin McRae, RB, Ohio
42. Jason Boone, OT, Utah
43. Chris Williams, WR, New Mexico State
44. Paul Smith, QB, Tulsa
45. Quinn Gooch, S, BYU
46. Red Keith, LB, Central Michigan
47. Chris Miller, P, Ball State
48. Joe Burnett, S, UCF
49. Damion Fletcher, RB, Southern Miss
50. Justin Willis, QB, SMU
51. Rocky Hinds, QB, UNLV
52. Jason Rivers, WR, Hawaii
53. Bear Pascoe, TE, Fresno State
54. Calvin Dawson, RB, Louisiana-Monroe
55. Chris Nendick, K, Northern Illinois
56. Yonus Davis, RB, San Jose State
57. Nelson Coleman, LB, Tulsa
58. Casey Flair, WR, UNLV
59. Tim McCarthy, LB, Northern Illinois
60. Gary Banks, WR, Troy

 

[ExVik92]

Like all of you I am a fan and would love to see the Viks on the main stage, but I believe that the AD needs to focus on winning big sky championships in Basketball and Football. Both programs need to inrease attendence as well. We must concentrate on winning where we are, and football needs to draw at least 12k-15k a game before it is even feasable.

Also we cannot forget that PSU does not have a Mens Soccer team or a Baseball team, Im not sure big time conferences would see that as attractive.

The one thing however that PSU does have in its favor is the potential of the Portland market. I believe a move is realistic in over 5 years if a few Big Sky conference championships are in that period and attendence drastically improves.

 

[PSUVikings2]

Like all of you I am a fan and would love to see the Viks on the main stage, but I believe that the AD needs to focus on winning big sky championships in Basketball and Football. Both programs need to inrease attendence as well. We must concentrate on winning where we are, and football needs to draw at least 12k-15k a game before it is even feasable.

Also we cannot forget that PSU does not have a Mens Soccer team or a Baseball team, Im not sure big time conferences would see that as attractive.

The one thing however that PSU does have in its favor is the potential of the Portland market. I believe a move is realistic in over 5 years if a few Big Sky conference championships are in that period and attendence drastically improves.

The WAC has 3 teams in football with no baseball program, one of them being not all so mighty Boise State. So that may not be a big issue, but I'd like a baseball team /users/31/07/37/smiles/784240.gif As for attendance the limit at the FBS level is 15K, if we can manage that then we have a shot. And of course like you said, winning is crucial.

 

[ExVik92]

I didn't know other 1A teams didn't have Baseball teams, that should help out the VIKS

I think that the more the Football program succeeds the more likely the gap in our team sports can be filled. Football and Mens basketball support a lot of the other programs at other schools but since football hasn't made much of profit in recent years all that money has to come from somewhere else. Not Good, hopefully success in football can spill money over to other PSU programs that need it.

 

[VikThunder1]

It is not just averaging 15K per game. It is donors, season ticket holders, facilities, etc. We don't even own our own football facility. Unless PSU builds FBS facilities and shows it has FBS backers then I think we should stay at FCS level.

 

[A1fan]

It is not just averaging 15K per game. It is donors, season ticket holders, facilities, etc. We don't even own our own football facility. Unless PSU builds FBS facilities and shows it has FBS backers then I think we should stay at FCS level.

It all depends on the success of the Glanville era. There already has been positive movement on all the things you talk about. 15k per game will bring the funds to do the building of facilities. I think the school should do what they are doing with an eye towards moving up. a move up is the on;y way to get quality teams to come to Portland, then we can talk 40k to whatever. Of course this takes years but requires the first step, even if its a baby step.