nice win BENGALS!

[Bengal Roar]

I will take the win anyday. I was not able to attend the game Monday but did watch it on Bigsky TV. Today i wasn't able to make it either but did hear about it from others. Had family in town and they were doing other things.

My secretary went to the game on Monday and she talked about it on Tuesday and said she hadn't been to a game for 3 years. Her assessment of the game was "We were scared to shoot and we pass to much." "The other teams goes down the court and makes quick shots."
My father went to the game today and came back and said the guys look very very tired. He also said the Bigs need to dip their hands in honey before the game so they can hold onto the ball and they need to be more aggressive. I have always talked about our big guys being to passive. When will they wake up?

I to am stirring the pot with these thoughts and thoughts from others. If the players and coaches read this then good. They can read opinions and can take it for what it is worth. I agree with others about the players need to be more accountable for their actions.

I hope they can get some rest soon. To the coaches...Let them loose coaches. Don't let them play scared anymore.

Great win tonight. It does feel good to be on the other side. The winning side. It seems we get the short end of the stick and these last 2 wins we have come out on top and we are changing our ways. We are learning how to win. there are so many critics and know it alls including myself but i would rather have it that way than no way at all. We care for the players and coaches and we want the Bengals to succeed. That is why we post. Go Bengals!

 

[loveformybengals]

How can I possibly criticize a coach if I don't know specifically what it is they want the players to accomplish at a given time? I'm not invited into their time-out huddles (something that doesn't seem to stop most of you, however).

True that it is difficult to know where the mistakes are being made in any given game- but we are frustrated about a pattern of behavior that rears its' ugly head pretty much every game we play. At times we see the players move the ball, penetrate, pass it to the post players, and attack the basket. The coaches AND the players are responsible for failures and triumphs. The only repeated frustration on this forum is our lack of a working offense. Why are the guys standing still on man offense? That isn't a player's decision.

If you all care so much about the success of this team, get your butts into Joe's office and let him know how obviously wrong he's doing things, and that he could fix it all by firing Swanny and Alexander. By the way...are any of you willing to take the jobs, and the heat that goes with them? You seem to have all the answers. Or maybe you know who he should hire?

A couple of days ago, I watched a press conference where Mike Shanahan got fired from his 14-15 year run with the Broncos. This man had class. He of course disagreed about the firing, but admitted that he was getting fired because he wasn't getting the job done- and this man has won, what? TWO superbowls?? So even he wasn't immune from the organization moving on and bringing in new ideas and direction. I believe this is what protege is suggesting- maybe we need some new ideas and a new direction on this coaching staff. We have had 3 years of lame offense- and non-utilization of our post players. This observation is not meant to be personal.

Does this mean we fire some coaches? Not my decision- nor would I be as bold as protege to suggest it- but it isn't out of the realm of considerations for ANY sports organization, as we saw with the broncos. Business is business. Gotta get the job done.

I will also point out that this coaching staff has been getting some very important tasks "done". Their ability to recruit to a small town in Idaho is impressive- I've said this before. OB's defense is impressive-when the guys get it right, and they usually do.

Tonight I'm just tired of people not satisfied with wins...but have to have 15-20 point wins...and only with certain lineups.

Of course we're happy we won the game- and impressed with the effort--but even Coach said on the press interview last night that they still have some things to work on--and apparently the bulk of us agree, even on specific points like offense. MANY of us go to these games and cheer our heads off for this team- we want them to succeed. The formula for success isn't kissing bottom, nor is it the formula for a good fan.

 

[Webcaster]

You can see Hi-lies from Idaho and UNC games on u-tube: Idaho State Basketball. tried to post url but not smart enough to figure it out. Any suggestion.

 

[loveformybengals]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUGojp5Vjn0

 

[spartan]

protoge an 'loveformybengals' (aka pat) bitch if the bengals win and they bitch if the bengals lose... whats the consistent theme here? oh yeah, they just like to bitch....

 

[votb]

Love...not a bad post at all.

Again, as far as I'm concerned, you all can post whatever you like...and I couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. But I think it's quite clear who is getting "flamed" here. Like I said, go ahead and go after me...no skin off my back.

Rhino...you want my "Bona Fides"?

I've been involved with organized basketball since I was in the 7th grade (I'm 55 now) as either a player, manager, coach or broadcaster. I've announced games on the high school, J-C, college and NBA levels. I've coached against former BYU and Utah State coach Ladell Anderson...winning close to 60 games in two seasons. In college I took a basketball coaching class from BYU Coach Frank Arnold...got an "A" and still have the workbook I made during the course. We studied and were tested on every offense and defense imagineable. I've enrolled in and passed a college course in basketball officiating, and passed the certification test the first time I took it. I have personally seen or been a part of over a thousand basketball games in my career. NO BRAGGING on my part because I don't deserve to brag...I'm just answering your question about my credentials.

My official capacity now is "Voice of the Bengals"...and am in my 21st year in that role with both men's and women's sports at ISU. Alright...that's me...anybody else want to share?

I am part of the team and am considered so by coaches, players, etc. I will speak here as part of the team and won't cross that line. My job doesn't include coaching, nor do I presume I'm smart enough to qualify, despite my "bona fides". But because I am "just the broadcaster", there are some things I can say here while coaches and players should never be posting here.

What I do know is this: I've seen a number of teams "implode" during my career...and usually the reason it happens is that players either won't buy in to what a coach is trying to do, or they quit buying in and just do what they want to do.

If you all think it's a good idea to undermine a coaching staff on a public message board that players read...go ahead...but there's a consequence for every choice we make. IF I WERE YOU AND FELT AS YOU DO, I'd take it up with the coaches in private, either face-to-face, in a phone call, or signed letter or e-mail (the first two will be the most effective). If your goal is to try and turn the players against the staff and cause them to question its' philosophy...you're on the right path, I've seen it happen before. Personally, I think the players have the balls to bring things up with coaches if they think they know how to change things for the better.

Don't use 17 words in a post to express your "joy" over a win, then over 500 to rip the staff publicly, calling for 2 coaches to be fired...and then expect me to believe you have the "team's" best interests at heart. Some laundry is just not meant to be aired in public. But if you disagree with me...that's okay...air it in public with your name attached. If you really want coaches fired, be proud and willing to go public with it. After all, we ARE talking about peoples' careers here.

I'm serious about not caring about what you post here, but when you're saying things that can mess with players' heads or a coach's career...at least be responsible enough to come out of the shadows of anonymity.

Now, everything I've posted here is nothing more than my opinion. You all know who I am, or should by now know that I'm Jerry Miller...the team's radio announcer. I'm not trying to shut anybody down, and my opinions are certainly NOT "gospel". Feel free to disagree...tolerance IS a two-way street.

 

[bengalcub]

I get frustrated with the offensive flow at times, but make no mistake--I am not on the fire O'Brien bandwagon. I love the defense, I just want to see a more productive offense. Things may improve drastically after this team gets some rest.

This team had doubled its win total for the season in the last week and although they are winning ugly, they are winning with grit and determination. I commend them for that.

If they can solve some things on the offensive side of the ball, the Sky is the limit.

 

[tuffgong]

bengalcub, you said it all right there.. Our D is legit, and even when we don't play well, we will be in the game because of it. Would I like to see more up-tempo,? ya, but if we are grinding out wins, it's better than the results with Oliver where we score a ton but give up more. I saw a couple of defensive stands yesterday that were just top-notch, and the ultimate reason why we have won these last 2 is our D, and that was what O'brien came to us as, and hung his hat on... I'm very much on O'brien's bandwagon, especially if we are qualifying for the BSC tourney every year...

 

[protege]

bengalcub, perfect post!

votb, you are reading way too much into my post, I have no agenda, no dog in the fight, I am a Bengal fan, married to an ISU Alumn, I do not have all the answers, in fact I was wrong about the lineups, I left out Chron when clearly the coaches saw something and did the right thing, PLAY him! thats not the first time or the last I am sure, bengalcub said it best above

enough of this, my new years resolution;

I will be kind and forgiving, find good in everything

I dont want Obrien gone, I have said COUNTLESS times, I believe in Obrien, and I have said I am not serious about any coach being fired, it is a figure of speech, we are not improving in that arena and I simply said how I felt

end of story, good luck to the players and staff Saturday, I hope everyone gets good rest!

FEAR THE BENGAL!

 

[skippy57.0]

When you hire a coach and a staff, just like when you elect a president, you get the whole package, good and bad. You may like the new president's economic policy, but aren't so keen on his social policy. Too bad, you get the whole deal. Same with a coach -- he may be a good defensive coach who recruits JC kids pretty well, but doesn't have a great offensive philosophy and doesn't recruit PGs particularly well. That's what you get.

OB will be judged on the big picture -- right now, he is the winningest ISU coach in Big Sky play since Jim Killingsworth -- a modest enough claim, true, but a fact nonetheless. After the season is over, you can re-evaluate his record and see if it merits a new contract. And if OB is retained and he decides to look for another assistant with a different offensive philosophy, that will be the time to do it.

Despite the pre-season hype, this is not the most talented Idaho State I've seen in the last 10 years. There are some nice players, but remember, only one, Matt Stucki, has ever been named to the first or second all-conference team, and none of the players on this year's team has even approached averaging double figures in scoring or five rebounds a game in their college careers. Folks rave about the Bengal big men, but remember that Steijn averaged only 10 points and 3 rebounds a game in JC, and Busma averaged less than 10 points a game.

This is not the Boston Celtics -- this a nice, competitive Big Sky Conference team that will probably finish third or fourth in the league, hopefully host a first-round playoff game, and maybe get hot enough to make it to the championship game. But this team will struggle all year against "mediocre teams" like N. Colorado, because they are not a great team themselves. You can't go 11 minutes and score one basket (like ISU did against Idaho), or even go 9 minutes without scoring a basket (like ISU did against Utah) and be a great offensive team.

And defensively, ISU will continue to struggle with the small, quick guards like Figures, who had 20 for N. Colorado, and Dominguez, McCoy and Valentine, because they simply don't have a player who matches up with them man-to-man, and when the other teams shoot the three well, you can't stay in a zone the entire game against them. ISU will also struggle unless/until A-K recovers and starts hitting 3s like he did as a freshman. The Bengals are the worst 3-point shooting team in the league, and they are giving up a huge advantage to other teams in that area night-after-night.

I think we all agree the Bengals need to re-evaluate their offensive approach. They are simply too inconsistent on offense to be a contender for the Big Sky title right now. But they will be a competitive team most of the season and then Tingey and OB can step back and look at the big picture and decide on the future, and the long-term offfensive philosophy. The continual beating of the "offense is terrible" dead horse is getting old. We all know it's a problem, but it will be up to the existing coaching staff to figure out answers between now and the end of the season, and they may not be answers we all like or agree upon.

 

[loveformybengals]

protoge an 'loveformybengals' (aka pat) bitch if the bengals win and they bitch if the bengals lose... whats the consistent theme here? oh yeah, they just like to bitch....

What are you talking about??? Sometimes I wonder what the point would be to even respond to such blather. The point is simple, we like to talk about basketball- if we wanted to kiss-A, we would send the coaches fruitcakes for Christmas- and birthday cards to their kids. Are you one of the players girlfriends or something?

 

[loveformybengals]

Despite the pre-season hype, this is not the most talented Idaho State I've seen in the last 10 years... Folks rave about the Bengal big men, but remember that Steijn averaged only 10 points and 3 rebounds a game in JC, and Busma averaged less than 10 points a game.

Steijn came from Europe--they have a different style of play out there...that was his biggest challenge, I believe, as a player coming to the states- I remember seeing him throw a lot of hook shots last year- which is not a necessary strategy for a post player. Now, you can see some real improvements in how he approaches the basket- kudos to him and the coaches for that change. Wouldn't you agree, however, that it is difficult for a post player to put points on the board if they aren't getting touches--? If I were 7 feet tall, I should be able to catch a pass thrown up in the air and at least attempt a basket, draw a foul- this doesn't happen NEAR enough. This is an offensive issue. You can argue mediocrity all you want to but that is no excuse for poor decision-making on offense. The bengals CAN play better than they have been, and those who post on here want to see this happen.

The continual beating of the "offense is terrible" dead horse is getting old. We all know it's a problem, but it will be up to the existing coaching staff to figure out answers between now and the end of the season, and they may not be answers we all like or agree upon.

I will continue to beat this dead horse. This horse, however, is not NEAR as dead and smelly as the offense. And how about we keep on griping about it as long as it's a problem for the team we want to see win games.

Why do some of you want to pigeon-hole the posters? This is a forum to discuss the game- believe me, many of us would rather have only great things to say...but such is life. Do I think I could do a better job...no. But I'm not getting paid a salary- it's not my job. As a fan, however, it's my RIGHT to make ignorant comments

VOTB

I am a singer/songwriter with a songwriting degree. Only played basketball in junior high,and I like to eat popcorn whilst watching Brit Hume in the evening after my kids go to bed.

 

[spartan]

may i suggest you stick with songwriting

 

[loveformybengals]

may i suggest you stick with songwriting

You might want to hear a few of my songs before making that suggestion. :lol:

 

[isusid]

Seriously, whoever put that highlight thing together...if you know how to get in touch with them (I left a message at youtube), please get them in touch with me....I'm curious to learn how they put that together...

ISUSID

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Rhino...you want my "Bona Fides"?

I've been involved with organized basketball since I was in the 7th grade (I'm 55 now) as either a player, manager, coach or broadcaster. I've announced games on the high school, J-C, college and NBA levels. I've coached against former BYU and Utah State coach Ladell Anderson...winning close to 60 games in two seasons. In college I took a basketball coaching class from BYU Coach Frank Arnold...got an "A" and still have the workbook I made during the course. We studied and were tested on every offense and defense imagineable. I've enrolled in and passed a college course in basketball officiating, and passed the certification test the first time I took it. I have personally seen or been a part of over a thousand basketball games in my career. NO BRAGGING on my part because I don't deserve to brag...I'm just answering your question about my credentials.

My official capacity now is "Voice of the Bengals"...and am in my 21st year in that role with both men's and women's sports at ISU. Alright...that's me...anybody else want to share?

votb, a couple of points: 1) Your background is certainly impressive! 2) We all want the same thing, which is to say a winning basketball team.

I am sorry if you think I am running down the coaches or the players. I'm just trying to point out certain things that I think the coaches can do better. Let's just take one issue that I brought up a while back and that protege has recently touched on - the fact that we don't run any kind of secondary break?

"A secondary break is used to transition quickly up the floor after the opponent scores, or after getting possession by either a rebound or steal. The idea is to push the ball up the floor as quickly as possible, before the defense can get set. The secondary break can even be used as a press breaker if you get it in quickly, before the press has time to get set."

votb, respectfully - Why don't we run a secondary break? Do you think we should? Can you understand Bengal fans' frustration over this sort of fundamental shortcoming?

Thank you.

 

[spartan]

wow, spearmint has offered up the 'false' apology - i'm sorry if you think - taking the responsibility of actually running down/badmouthing away from himself when that is exactly what he is doing.....

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

wow, spearmint has offered up the 'false' apology - i'm sorry if you think - taking the responsibility of actually running down/badmouthing away from himself when that is exactly what he is doing.....

Spartan, let's just be clear:

In your world, coaches should not be criticized. They are up on a pedestal and we mere mortals dare not think we know better. Isn't that what you are saying?

Au contraire, I believe criticism is VITAL to improved performance! I for one, WELCOME criticism in my daily life, because I know it pushes me towards perfection!

 

[votb]

Rhino....

My response is still the same. If you feel the coaching staff has so many liabilities...take it up personally with Joe and Jeff Tingey...in that order.

My whole point is that players read this board, and if they read a board where people are talking about why coaches should be losing their jobs...it can cause problems. How are they to know a poster "didn't really mean it" when he said the coaches that come up with the offense and that coach our BIGS should be fired? That wasn't included on this thread until just recently.

Not too many years ago I saw a team implode when the returning players decided they didn't like what the new coach was implementing...so they would just do what they wanted instead. A conference championship team with three starters back (including the league MVP) ended up finishing way out of the race...didn't even make the post-season tourney. Now that's what I call a "recipe for success", and the coaches got fired because of selfish players and the fact they didn't bench their butts when they should have! They ended up losing anyway.

I've never said coaches shouldn't be criticized. I just got done putting together a list of the streaks we've had this year without scoring baskets, which will be part of tomorrow's pre-game show. But I'm not going to be calling anyone out or calling for coaches to be fired. It's part of the reality of this team's performance so far and deserves airing, without all the antagonism. Look. I AM as frustrated as you guys are about some parts of our offensive play...but certainly not to the level that some of you are. I think Cub and I are probably a lot alike in that regard. Again, my only point is that when a team struggles offensively the way we have at times, let the players and the coaching staff figure it out in practice and on the court. It's fine to let the coaches know about your frustrations and aggravations, AND there are other ways to do it besides posting it on a board that players read.

No matter where it is in life...family, business or athletics...I've always been a firm believer in trying to maintain a positive attitude, while being realistic about problems and solutions. I think positive attitudes can snowball...I've seen it in my career. I also know without a doubt that negative attitudes can snowball too. In this very thread after Protege posted his two paragraphs calling for coaches' jobs, all of a sudden we see other posters thinking maybe that's not such a bad idea, too. There are positive ways to deal with problems, and there are negative ways...and I'm a firm believer that 99-percent of the time the positive path is more productive.

Now, I have no use for posters that are on here just trying to create advantages for individual players who either are family, friends...or whatever. The cream will almost always rise to the top on a team, and occasionally the coaches will stir the pot a little to shake some people up. But another one of the most divisive things that can happen is when family members or close friends convince a player he's getting screwed by the coach. It does nothing but hurt the player and the team. I saw that this year on our football team, and a player who could have had a career year ended up wasting almost the entire last-half of the season away because of that kind of crap.

Different players respond differently to situations faced during a season. Coaches are always looking to find out what kids are made of...and I think we'll see some of that tomorrow against K-State. I've got nothing to base that on other than my own feelings...cause I haven't talked to Joe about it at all. But I do know that all of our focus is now on conference games, and I know he won't be doing anything tomorrow that he thinks might hurt our chances next week at EWU and Portland State. I think some kids with lower amounts of minutes will get a lot more PT tomorrow...which could be a really good thing (See, I'm taking the positive approach)

Rhino...one other note for you: I certainly didn't post that info about me to brag...you asked, I answered. I've got no room to brag about anything and won't be bringing it up again.

I feel fortunate and blessed to be a part of the team and have the opportunity to be around some great young men who are still trying to define themselves as a team, and with a coaching staff that really does care about these kids. I even consider myself fortunate to be able to exchange thoughts, ideas, and sometimes opposing points-of-view on here. But in the end...it's all just my opinion. I am trying very hard, though, to not do anything that will ever hurt the team.

Go Bengals!

 

[votb]

Seriously, whoever put that highlight thing together...if you know how to get in touch with them (I left a message at youtube), please get them in touch with me....I'm curious to learn how they put that together...

ISUSID

Agreeing with Frank here...the video highlights of the last two games was a nice touch. The UNC highlights were extremely well-edited. KUDOS to the person responsible. Frank has them posted on www.isubengals.com.