Open Letter to BSC Adniniustrators

[Skippy]

I agree that the fans were the last thing on their minds. However, there is only one way this thing will be successful, in their minds. It has to make money. Sponsorships and TV can carry the load if they work hard enough on it. The only other way to bring in money is the fan base. Any way you cut it, it will be all about marketing.

If that news conf. was an indication of the level of marketing we can expect, this thing is doomed. A Jr High student could have put out a better product. :yikes:

I don't think making money has ever been the goal of the tournament. It's usually lost money, especially when it was held in places not Ogden or Missoula. That's why the conference instituted the requirement that the regular season champion pony up $160 K in order to host -- to reduce the costs of visiting teams. I'm told Reno made the conference an offer "too good to refuse." I'm assuming that's very cheap hotel and food. Maybe free, in return for the sponsors keeping all the gate receipts. Who knows.

And while ESPN has regularly broadcast the men's championship game, I don't think they are paying the conference for the rights, or if they are, it's a pittance. The conference just wants to make sure it gets on the air somewhere. (The women's championship is not televised).

So if the conference schools can get out of this breaking even, I think they'll be happy. The ADs and coaches wanted certainty and fairness in travel and competition, and they'll be getting that with a neutral site and all 12 teams invited. The excitement and accessiblity of an on-campus venue has been sacrificed for those goals. As we've seen over the past 25 years of tweaks to the tournament format, there is a constant trade-off of those values.

 

[n.ogdencat]

For those wondering how Weber Pres voted, the MSU AD claims the voting was unanimous for both Presidents and ADs.

Talked to Chuck at the spring game. He said he and Engstrom of Montana were both against Reno. That doesn't mean that they eventually voted for it in the end after all was said and done. Meaning that was the only choice. He said it was a bad option and that he wanted to keep the original format. Why fix something that isn't broken. He also was very much against having all 12 teams in the tournament. He said it cheapens the regular season. Why play well from Jan to March if there isn't a reward? It made me pretty happy to hear.

As for attendance...Sac struggles, MOST YEARS (this past season was an absolute aberration), to even get half of the Nest full. I've been twice and on both occasions there were more Weber fans than Sac fans. So, I"m not holding my breath to seeing a "major" sac contingent at any location, and that includes Reno which is the closest. :rofl:

 

[n.ogdencat]

I agree that the fans were the last thing on their minds. However, there is only one way this thing will be successful, in their minds. It has to make money. Sponsorships and TV can carry the load if they work hard enough on it. The only other way to bring in money is the fan base. Any way you cut it, it will be all about marketing.

If that news conf. was an indication of the level of marketing we can expect, this thing is doomed. A Jr High student could have put out a better product. :yikes:

I don't think making money has ever been the goal of the tournament. It's usually lost money, especially when it was held in places not Ogden or Missoula. That's why the conference instituted the requirement that the regular season champion pony up $160 K in order to host -- to reduce the costs of visiting teams. I'm told Reno made the conference an offer "too good to refuse." I'm assuming that's very cheap hotel and food. Maybe free, in return for the sponsors keeping all the gate receipts. Who knows.

And while ESPN has regularly broadcast the men's championship game, I don't think they are paying the conference for the rights, or if they are, it's a pittance. The conference just wants to make sure it gets on the air somewhere. (The women's championship is not televised).

So if the conference schools can get out of this breaking even, I think they'll be happy. The ADs and coaches wanted certainty and fairness in travel and competition, and they'll be getting that with a neutral site and all 12 teams invited. The excitement and accessiblity of an on-campus venue has been sacrificed for those goals. As we've seen over the past 25 years of tweaks to the tournament format, there is a constant trade-off of those values.

Excellent post!! You hit the nail on the nose.

 

[sapokama]

I don't think making money has ever been the goal of the tournament. It's usually lost money, especially when it was held in places not Ogden or Missoula.

I think this is a good point. But I have to ask, if the tournament isn't about money, or about getting the best team to the NCAA tournament, or the fans, or the students...then what is it for?

 

[Skippy]

I don't think making money has ever been the goal of the tournament. It's usually lost money, especially when it was held in places not Ogden or Missoula.

I think this is a good point. But I have to ask, if the tournament isn't about money, or about getting the best team to the NCAA tournament, or the fans, or the students...then what is it for?

That's a good point, pawildcat. I would not be opposed to the Big Sky doing away with the tournament, playing a complete home-and-home conference schedule, and just sending the regular season winner to the NCAA. But I suspect that won't ever happen because: a) the coaches want the opportunity to have their team in the tournament every year and having a shot, even if it's a long one, at going to the NCAA tourney; and b) every other conference except the Ivy league has a post-season tournament. Ironically, the Big Sky was one of the first leagues to go to a post-season tournament. But that opportunity to be "distinct" is long gone. In fact, if the Big Sky really wanted to be distinct, not having a tournament would be the way to go now.

 

[baller]

hey Guys! Give it up. The decision is made... :wall: Let's move forward with it and see what we can make of it. :rockon: The contract is signed and it's gonna happen no matter how much bitchin we do. And in three years it will find continued life if the majority believe that it is a better answer than any other we have. End of story... Lets pick up another subject i.e. trying to induce some info about players leaving the team, about new players that will be showing up in a month or so, about recruits for next year, about schedule next year, etc., etc., etc. Plenty of stuff to ruminate about... Let's get after something that is positive and worthwhile. :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[WeberSki]

hey Guys! Give it up. The decision is made... :wall: Let's move forward with it and see what we can make of it. :rockon: The contract is signed and it's gonna happen no matter how much bitchin we do. And in three years it will find continued life if the majority believe that it is a better answer than any other we have. End of story... Lets pick up another subject i.e. trying to induce some info about players leaving the team, about new players that will be showing up in a month or so, about recruits for next year, about schedule next year, etc., etc., etc. Plenty of stuff to ruminate about... Let's get after something that is positive and worthwhile. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Not really, My interest went from 10 to 1. Could care less about the regular season. It means nothing now. I will not be renewing my season tickets. Life is busy..

 

[oldrunner]

The regular season is all about the BSC championship. The post season stuff is just about who will get the auto bid to the NCAA tournament. If you can't get excited about winning games that lead to a championship, why were you a fan in the first place?

Personally, I love sports in general, I love the game of basketball, and I love Weber State University. Just because the BSC changed their post season tournament format, I have no reason to stop loving any of that. I'm looking forward to each and every game. I'm excited about the potential of winning another championship and doing the best that we can in the post season. In my mind, very little has changed.

All of this sour grapes crap isn't a solution to anything. :wtf:

 

[WeberSki]

The regular season is all about the BSC championship. The post season stuff is just about who will get the auto bid to the NCAA tournament. If you can't get excited about winning games that lead to a championship, why were you a fan in the first place?

Personally, I love sports in general, I love the game of basketball, and I love Weber State University. Just because the BSC changed their post season tournament format, I have no reason to stop loving any of that. I'm looking forward to each and every game. I'm excited about the potential of winning another championship and doing the best that we can in the post season. In my mind, very little has changed.

All of this sour grapes crap isn't a solution to anything. :wtf:

ya, it's all about winning a regular season crown.. :roll: , certainly you can do better than this olds

 

[Skippy]

The regular season is all about the BSC championship. The post season stuff is just about who will get the auto bid to the NCAA tournament. If you can't get excited about winning games that lead to a championship, why were you a fan in the first place?

Personally, I love sports in general, I love the game of basketball, and I love Weber State University. Just because the BSC changed their post season tournament format, I have no reason to stop loving any of that. I'm looking forward to each and every game. I'm excited about the potential of winning another championship and doing the best that we can in the post season. In my mind, very little has changed.

All of this sour grapes crap isn't a solution to anything. :wtf:

ya, it's all about winning a regular season crown.. :roll: , certainly you can do better than this olds

I'm with Olds -- I learned long ago to enjoy each game as an individual experience. A regular season championship is also certainly something to cherish -- it's the culmination of a season-long battle, with a lot of highs and lows along the way. Winning the tournament and the NCAA berth are separate highs, and certainly everybody wants to be in "the Dance," but I enjoy watching a season unfold, players develop and seeing how my team matches up each and every game.

 

[AlumniWSU]

The real losers in withdrawing your interest/support are YOU - by denying yourself of it & YOUR COLLEGE TEAM - by denying them of your financial & fan booster support! Don't let the Big Sky Conference decisions, good or bad, take you out of it, press on with the strong support of your Weber State/other teams! Don't take it out on the good guys (cheer the good things & criticize the bad all you want!!!). Just saying...is what I will continue to do. :thumb: :thumbdown:

 

[Webergrad02]

I am on team Weberski on this one and here is why:

Our president and AD had a chance to make a statement by voting against this proposal. Sure it may not have made a difference in the final outcome but it would have demonstrated that they stand behind the fans and the community.

I am fairly certain that many of our local businesses don't get a huge return on investment by sponsoring and advertising with Weber State Athletics. So why do many of them do it? Because supporting Weber State is supporting our community and our future. There is a sense of belonging to a "family" of Weber State supporters. To me it was it exciting to host the Big Sky tournament. It was great to bring them to our community and show them how much we love our Wildcats. Now that opportunity is gone. There was no public statement to those who support the Cats as to the stand by our President and AD. Obviously, they wanted to host the thing since they put in a bid. But we deserve more from the organization that we support.

So Weberski is right. The way we can show our disapproval is not to show up and support in the ways we have supported in the past. I love basketball and I do enjoy each game. But the Big Sky has taken an opportunity away from every institution in this conference. Look at how just the chance at hosting the Big Sky tournament brought those around the Sac State program together to figure out a way to make it happen. It was exciting and it brought a sense of community.

If our President and AD really felt strongly about not changing the format. Why not make a public statement and show that you care about the community? Why give Foolerton the chance to say it was unanimous. Who cares if the other schools hold a grudge against Weber and Montana for taking a stand. The conference has piggy backed on our programs for the last decade.

To all of you who say that it is not about the number of fans that travel to Reno, you may be right for the first year or so. But ultimately this is like any other event that comes to Reno. It's about hotels booked and money spent. There is no sense of community or connection with our programs from the advertisers and event sponsors. They don't give a rats ass about the schools involved. Just bring people to town

 

[Webergrad02]

The real losers in withdrawing your interest/support are YOU - by denying yourself of it & YOUR COLLEGE TEAM - by denying them of your financial & fan booster support! Don't let the Big Sky Conference decisions, good or bad, take you out of it, press on with the strong support of your Weber State/other teams! Don't take it out on the good guys (cheer the good things & criticize the bad all you want!!!). Just saying...is what I will continue to do. :thumb: :thumbdown:

Why can't our AD and President take some accountability and tell us why they voted for this? They have privately said that they were against it.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Some posts here remind me a bit of a neighborhood game where the kid gets upset and says "OK, I'm taking my ball and going home"!!! No winners, all losers. Just saying...but good points 'webergrad02'.

Expanding on the thought...could it also spark the kid's thoughts of talking to a few other unhappy kids with the idea of forming their own gang to play on? Remember the WAC several years back when big ideas of growing the numbers & other stuff lead to a break up? Hmmm...NO, not the Big Sky gang!! Several sparks can lead to a fire. I'm NOT proposing or suggesting, just remembering. :stir:

Enough of that...read Garside's column in today's SE regarding the Reno decision http://www.standard.net/digital/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[n.ogdencat]

So...in essence the department should have $160K available. I'm sure that the AD put aside that money each year, just in case Weber were to host the Big Sky Tourny. Now that the Big Sky has ruined the post-season tournament with a neutral location and allowing all 12 teams in (how much is Idaho to blame for all of this garbage?), Weber, in a sense, should have 160K available to use in other areas. Why not use that money to help get a pre-season tourny started here in Ogden. Something with 6 teams. Or why not use some of that money to buy a couple of games? Get some local sponsors to chip in and at least have some more DI games at the Dee or even a tournament.

Even if that money was mostly provided by sponsors. They are willing each year to help if Weber were to win it all, so why not get those local parties willing to sponsor a post-season tourny help out in the preseason. Why not set something up for other events. For instance the Courtyard Marriott Golden Spike Event...Or American First Junction City Classic.

 

[sacstateman]

So...in essence the department should have $160K available. I'm sure that the AD put aside that money each year, just in case Weber were to host the Big Sky Tourny. Now that the Big Sky has ruined the post-season tournament with a neutral location and allowing all 12 teams in (how much is Idaho to blame for all of this garbage?), Weber, in a sense, should have 160K available to use in other areas. Why not use that money to help get a pre-season tourny started here in Ogden. Something with 6 teams. Or why not use some of that money to buy a couple of games? Get some local sponsors to chip in and at least have some more DI games at the Dee or even a tournament.

Even if that money was mostly provided by sponsors. They are willing each year to help if Weber were to win it all, so why not get those local parties willing to sponsor a post-season tourny help out in the preseason. Why not set something up for other events. For instance the Courtyard Marriott Golden Spike Event...Or American First Junction City Classic.

As much as it pains me to say it......this makes sense tal.......you should start pressing and maybe by fall 2016 you might have something....

 

[n.ogdencat]

So...in essence the department should have $160K available. I'm sure that the AD put aside that money each year, just in case Weber were to host the Big Sky Tourny. Now that the Big Sky has ruined the post-season tournament with a neutral location and allowing all 12 teams in (how much is Idaho to blame for all of this garbage?), Weber, in a sense, should have 160K available to use in other areas. Why not use that money to help get a pre-season tourny started here in Ogden. Something with 6 teams. Or why not use some of that money to buy a couple of games? Get some local sponsors to chip in and at least have some more DI games at the Dee or even a tournament.

Even if that money was mostly provided by sponsors. They are willing each year to help if Weber were to win it all, so why not get those local parties willing to sponsor a post-season tourny help out in the preseason. Why not set something up for other events. For instance the Courtyard Marriott Golden Spike Event...Or American First Junction City Classic.

As much as it pains me to say it......this makes sense tal.......you should start pressing and maybe by fall 2016 you might have something....

Wow...thank you Sac. This would have been the high point of the week, but Weber's Softball team beat BYU in Provo. No Weber State team has won in Provo since 1989. So, this post has to be #2!! :thumb:

 

[SWWeatherCat]

I am on team Weberski on this one and here is why:

Our president and AD had a chance to make a statement by voting against this proposal. Sure it may not have made a difference in the final outcome but it would have demonstrated that they stand behind the fans and the community.

I am fairly certain that many of our local businesses don't get a huge return on investment by sponsoring and advertising with Weber State Athletics. So why do many of them do it? Because supporting Weber State is supporting our community and our future. There is a sense of belonging to a "family" of Weber State supporters. To me it was it exciting to host the Big Sky tournament. It was great to bring them to our community and show them how much we love our Wildcats. Now that opportunity is gone. There was no public statement to those who support the Cats as to the stand by our President and AD. Obviously, they wanted to host the thing since they put in a bid. But we deserve more from the organization that we support.

So Weberski is right. The way we can show our disapproval is not to show up and support in the ways we have supported in the past. I love basketball and I do enjoy each game. But the Big Sky has taken an opportunity away from every institution in this conference. Look at how just the chance at hosting the Big Sky tournament brought those around the Sac State program together to figure out a way to make it happen. It was exciting and it brought a sense of community.

If our President and AD really felt strongly about not changing the format. Why not make a public statement and show that you care about the community? Why give Foolerton the chance to say it was unanimous. Who cares if the other schools hold a grudge against Weber and Montana for taking a stand. The conference has piggy backed on our programs for the last decade.

To all of you who say that it is not about the number of fans that travel to Reno, you may be right for the first year or so. But ultimately this is like any other event that comes to Reno. It's about hotels booked and money spent. There is no sense of community or connection with our programs from the advertisers and event sponsors. They don't give a rats ass about the schools involved. Just bring people to town

:+1: As much as it pains me, I just can't see myself supporting the BSC, the City of Reno, and any who played a part in ruining one of my favorite passions. It's a kick in the ass to the students, many of the fans, the community, and sponsors/donors who love the excitement and uniting effect it has when the tourney comes to town, not to mention the loss of $$$ to the BSC towns that (used to) host. I'd be interested to know what the players prefer, it would surprise me if most of them like the change either. This participation mentality (all teams in) is a crock of crap too! If your BSC team can't ever make the tournament, then find a conference or division you can compete in. If your team is never good enough to host, then find a conference or division you can compete in.

I know it doesn't matter how I feel and it's water under the bridge at this point but don't bother preaching to me about sour grapes, spoiled child mentality, or the only one retracting supports hurts is me. When they can give sh1t less about their paying customers, it becomes much easier for me to return the sentiment.

 

[SWWeatherCat]

So...in essence the department should have $160K available. I'm sure that the AD put aside that money each year, just in case Weber were to host the Big Sky Tourny. Now that the Big Sky has ruined the post-season tournament with a neutral location and allowing all 12 teams in (how much is Idaho to blame for all of this garbage?), Weber, in a sense, should have 160K available to use in other areas. Why not use that money to help get a pre-season tourny started here in Ogden. Something with 6 teams. Or why not use some of that money to buy a couple of games? Get some local sponsors to chip in and at least have some more DI games at the Dee or even a tournament.

Even if that money was mostly provided by sponsors. They are willing each year to help if Weber were to win it all, so why not get those local parties willing to sponsor a post-season tourny help out in the preseason. Why not set something up for other events. For instance the Courtyard Marriott Golden Spike Event...Or American First Junction City Classic.

I love the idea of a quality tournament and might even be tempted into attending but the whole reason the $160K would be available is because there is no "reward" to play for so it loses a lot of appeal to me. With the track record experienced the last decade or two, do you really think something like this could happen?

 

[oldrunner]

I do understand the frustration, and even anger, of some of our posters. However, BSC schools have made their choice and there will be a three year trial under this new arrangement. It may be a failure or it may be a success. Nobody really knows right now.

If you are too hurt to get behind your team in this new format, then try to adopt a wait and see attitude. If that turns out to be too much to ask, then I don't see how you can reconcile being a fan. As long as you are still a fan, you have every right to contact the AD and let him know your feelings on the matter, make suggestions on where you think changes should be made, or let them know what your actions will be. If you stop buying tickets or contributing, then you also lose your voice in the matter.

Maybe it is time to consider gathering up the best schools in the BSC and forming a new league. Maybe this experiment with 12 members was the failure. Maybe we can be a member of the new Intermountain 8 conf. Maybe we should leave Fullerton with the remaining 4 institutions and let him round up a few more to rebuild the BSC.

My feelings are that this new tournament format will turn out to be a make or break thing for the BSC. If they can somehow pull it off, and make it a smashing success, then they will survive. Anything else, will signal the begging of the end for the conference as we now know it.