Open Letter to BSC Adniniustrators

[oldrunner]

In a few years FBS will not exist, at least not as we know it now. The 'power 5' are changing all of that. They have no desire to share with the low level FBS leagues, let alone allow a new league with 12 additional mouths to feed. If having a stadium that seats over 15,000 was the sole concern, Weber is already there.

Much of what we have seen in the way of realignments and 'power 5' negotiations with the NCAA, point to some major changes coming to the NCAA landscape. How things might look 3, 5, or 10 years from now, is really hard to predict. The only sure thing for now, is that the NCAA made some major concessions to the 'power 5' leagues. They have, basically, separated them from the rest of D1 athletics and allowed them to set their own rules. What was left of D1 is now something other than D1. That is true for FBS or FCS. In FBS, the bowl money is all going to 'power 5' leagues. What is left of D1/FBS may still have some minor bowls, but they are not going to want to share with 12 more teams in a new league. I certainly don't know how things will wind up, but a new 12 team FBS league to share already limited resources, seems unlikely.

 

[AlumniWSU]

Some awesome outside the box thinking 'siouxfan'! Perhaps some of your predictions might come true eventually but some parts do not make any sense, however interesting. But do keep us informed of developments, so as we delirious Weber State fans don't continue to stumble around in the dark! Apparently you have some "inside" sources, whether they come to you in the day or at night in your dreams. Thanks for the update!!

 

[n.ogdencat]

Sioux...that's quite some "imaginative" thinking on your part. However, there are parts that are accurate. Commissioner Fullerton has said, in the past, that he is interested in creating a league that will be either: A. Able to participate in FBS as well as FCS (no split mentioned) or B. Ready to be at the level of the Sun Belt or MAC when the power 5 split (which I feel we are at). Let's all be honest the CAA, MVC, Sun Belt, MAC, aspects of the MW and Sky are virtually on the same level now. Nothing will happen though till the Big 5 moves. We are talking budgets in the 75-200 M range and the rest are in the 8-35M range. To me the lower group are Sky and MW schools. But really...what does it mean to be FBS and in the Sun Belt or on par with that league? FBS is definitely losing its appeal. Do you really believe UND will be able to offer the same incentives that Wisconsin can? Besides...last time I heard, NDSU wants absolutely nothing to do with I UND. Also NMSU?? Looool...Los Cruces is harder to get to than Grand Forks and don't make me laugh about PSU...the rumor is that they are close to dropping football. Most of what you wrote is a pipe dream. Idaho???? Ha!! We should have left them in the WAC within 3 years they will drop down to FCS. Moscow doesn't have much to offer towards FBS. You cut the areas that have the most to offer.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Some awesome outside the box thinking 'siouxfan'! Perhaps some of your predictions might come true eventually but some parts do not make any sense, however interesting. But do keep us informed of developments, so as we delirious Weber State fans don't continue to stumble around in the dark! Apparently you have some "inside" sources, whether they come to you in the day or at night in your dreams. Thanks for the update!!

I don't have inside information, but I have been listening seriously to our retired coaches, Fullerton, and other BSC admin. Many don't believe, including most Sioux fans. Some Big Sky schools are not acting like their going FBS, including Weber St. I can only summise that Weber will have problems with the Utah legislature if they go FBS, rather than stay with SUU, UVU, and maybe Dixie St.

One retired UND coach said that UND will go FBS soon, even when we hadn't been DI for long. Montana has been fervently setting up FBS potential allies around it and plans to jettison the rest of the Sky to the WAC who don't have FBS ambitions.

As for the P5 not wanting more G5 teams: only the G5 don't want more. Its actually beneficial for the PAC12, BIG, and Big 12 to have a 12 team FBS Big Sky, as that would make cheaper ooc games and weaken the MWC. The G5 will fight it tooth and nail, but the P5 wants it. The Big Sky already has a contract with Root Sports that can be expanded. FBS bowl games can be set up or taken over in Boise, Seattle, or Minneapolis. FCS teams lose more the FBS teams. Its either grow bigger or drop scholarships. The Big Sky and WAC are actually coordinating together for teams to eventually switch conferences.

The schools in the Big Sky that have big research missions and professional schools want to go FBS. The league academically will easily exceed the Sun Belt. If a school has a research component, its wants FBS. Those schools won't tolerate being in a league with lower ambitions that could be reclassified lower. The P5 is too small to give the G5 the boot, but the rest of DI could be in trouble.

Idaho and NMSU will be the Big Sky's ticket. That why Idaho already joined, because there's an FBS plan. NMSU may have other options with CUSA and the Sun Belt.

NDSU won't have any choice but to join the Big Sky because no other FBS conference wants them. Their fans hate us and the Big Sky, but they will come around if its the only option. The hate from them is very strong, but we have monied donors and they don't seem to have any. We have the programs that the oil industry wants and our engineering numbers have more than doubled and oil donations for geology, chemical eng, and petroleum eng programs will build new buildings. The State is also building a new medical school complex and is adding a law school addition. The state is rapidly industrializing. Meanwhile, NDSU serves mainly the Ag community, which is growing much more slowly.

Keep in mind we attract 250,000 fans to just hockey. That pays a lot of bills and already provide more attendance than many G5 and nearly all FCS schools. We normally trounce Minnesota and Wisconsin in that sport, even when they left us to form a Big Ten hockey league. If you ask a Gopher or Badger fan who their biggest rival is, they would say each other or us. We would like to play them in football, but we have to go FBS to do that now. If we can get football attendance higher, like we did in D2 days, it should help. We have the fan base, but they want competition at the highest level. Ohio St and Michigan have MAC schools to beat on, but the western BIG schools like Ia, Nebr, Minn, and Wisc can't play any nearby FCS schools anymore. The Dakotas would be natural opponents if we were FBS.

Weber in the WAC would give you a nearly automatic ticket to the dance (NMSU will be gone), a more regional southwest footprint, and probably lower football scholarships. What more could you guys want.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Sioux...that's quite some "imaginative" thinking on your part. However, there are parts that are accurate. Commissioner Fullerton has said, in the past, that he is interested in creating a league that will be either: A. Able to participate in FBS as well as FCS (no split mentioned) or B. Ready to be at the level of the Sun Belt or MAC when the power 5 split (which I feel we are at). Let's all be honest the CAA, MVC, Sun Belt, MAC, aspects of the MW and Sky are virtually on the same level now. Nothing will happen though till the Big 5 moves. We are talking budgets in the 75-200 M range and the rest are in the 8-35M range. To me the lower group are Sky and MW schools. But really...what does it mean to be FBS and in the Sun Belt or on par with that league? FBS is definitely losing its appeal. Do you really believe UND will be able to offer the same incentives that Wisconsin can? Besides...last time I heard, NDSU wants absolutely nothing to do with I UND. Also NMSU?? Looool...Los Cruces is harder to get to than Grand Forks and don't make me laugh about PSU...the rumor is that they are close to dropping football. Most of what you wrote is a pipe dream. Idaho???? Ha!! We should have left them in the WAC within 3 years they will drop down to FCS. Moscow doesn't have much to offer towards FBS. You cut the areas that have the most to offer.

Idaho will do practically anything to save FBS. A Big Sky FBS actually makes Idaho football viable again.

NMSU will do anything to save FBS football. Going to FCS would smear both schools reputations.

Portland St is a real problem right now with their football program. They actually have an FBS stadium. If they can't make a go at FBS, they will drop football entirely, start men's soccer and go to the WAC. FCS never works in a pro town, which is why Charlotte and UTSA moved directly to FBS. Portland fans might take PSU seriously if they are FBS.

FCS football has never worked in California. FBS barely works in San Jose, but it still gives SJSU better recognition than the Cal FCS schools. They will at least attempt to make FBS work. If it doesn't, the Big West will take them in again.

 

[SDHornet]

Next up is how to fix your football program to bring it up to your new conference's standards.....

:lol: I love delusional realignment talk. Reminds me of some of the crap spewed by the griztards on egriz. :dunce: :lol:


Uh oh, now we will be accused of being the same person. :kisswink:

I would like to add you to the alter ego list but even Superman would have a hard time posting from Stockton then Sacramento in a matter of 4 minutes.

If you couldn't tell my post was a joke. There is no where for any of the Big Sky schools to go. Maybe North Dakota goes to the Summit and Sac goes Big West but those leagues don't have football.

Yes I know it is a joke, hence the winkyface emoji.

 

[SDHornet]

I'm not doubting you pawildcat but I can't figure out where UM would fit into a higher rated conference....the WCC is out and I doubt the MWC is interested in bringing in another small market school, so I ask "Where is UM going to move where they will fit?" When a school moves to another conference they usually have to be asked to join the new conference, I don't see what UM has to offer that is so irresistable.

Nailed it. Montana isn’t going anywhere unless the MWC is raided and needs warm bodies to stay alive. In this day and age of realignment the only thing that matters is TV market. Montana has none, hence why they will never be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[SDHornet]

The shift I see coming to NCAA D1 athletics is separate from the stipend issue. It is that the 'power 5' want to break off and be their own division. They want all of the money. They are tired of sharing, even on penny, with the mid-majors. That is one of the reasons that BYU wants so desperately to get into one of those leagues. After that happens, and it has already begun, what do you call the rest of D1? Do you start calling them D1AA or D11. Any way you cut it, they all become second class and would probably need to get their own bowls or start up their own playoffs. The line between those teams and what we now call, for football, FCS teams would become a bit blurred. When the 'power 5' threatened to take their ball and go home, and the NCAA caved in to them, it started the ball rolling toward a major shift in the NCAA's
divisional alignment. There is a lot of uncertainty about where this whole thing will end up. Most of the current non 'power 5' D1-FBS programs, not just BYU, are in limbo right now. The line between them and D1-FCS may be eradicated over the next few years. If that happens, and it might be what Fullerton was betting on, then the BSC may be well positioned.

I agree with this. Not much difference between bottom tier FBS and top tier FCS. I consider most of the BSC top tier FCS. It will be interesting to find out where everyone falls when the deck is reshuffled.

 

[SDHornet]

Sioux...that's quite some "imaginative" thinking on your part. However, there are parts that are accurate. Commissioner Fullerton has said, in the past, that he is interested in creating a league that will be either: A. Able to participate in FBS as well as FCS (no split mentioned) or B. Ready to be at the level of the Sun Belt or MAC when the power 5 split (which I feel we are at). Let's all be honest the CAA, MVC, Sun Belt, MAC, aspects of the MW and Sky are virtually on the same level now. Nothing will happen though till the Big 5 moves. We are talking budgets in the 75-200 M range and the rest are in the 8-35M range. To me the lower group are Sky and MW schools. But really...what does it mean to be FBS and in the Sun Belt or on par with that league? FBS is definitely losing its appeal. Do you really believe UND will be able to offer the same incentives that Wisconsin can? Besides...last time I heard, NDSU wants absolutely nothing to do with I UND. Also NMSU?? Looool...Los Cruces is harder to get to than Grand Forks and don't make me laugh about PSU...the rumor is that they are close to dropping football. Most of what you wrote is a pipe dream. Idaho???? Ha!! We should have left them in the WAC within 3 years they will drop down to FCS. Moscow doesn't have much to offer towards FBS. You cut the areas that have the most to offer.

Idaho will do practically anything to save FBS. A Big Sky FBS actually makes Idaho football viable again.

NMSU will do anything to save FBS football. Going to FCS would smear both schools reputations.

Portland St is a real problem right now with their football program. They actually have an FBS stadium. If they can't make a go at FBS, they will drop football entirely, start men's soccer and go to the WAC. FCS never works in a pro town, which is why Charlotte and UTSA moved directly to FBS. Portland fans might take PSU seriously if they are FBS.

FCS football has never worked in California. FBS barely works in San Jose, but it still gives SJSU better recognition than the Cal FCS schools. They will at least attempt to make FBS work. If it doesn't, the Big West will take them in again.

SF just stop already. You have been saying the same thing for 3 years now. The WAC was the last hope for any western FCSers to go FBS, and it ain’t happening. This new full cost of attendance stipends sure muddies things up again (see haves staying ahead of the have nots). Any TV deal your new FBS BSC can muster won’t come anywhere near covering the cost difference between FCS and FBS, even at a bottom level…and the current FBS members surely won’t want to chop the playoff money any further. The funding just won’t be there for this grand master scheme of yours to be pulled off.

 

[Siouxfan2]

SDHornet:

I've been saying the same thing for three years, and its almost like Fullerton is my puppet in echoing what I have said, UM keeps preparing for an FBS move with softball and new workout facilities at Washington stadium, and UCDavis and EWU keep on fundraising for a bigger stadium. The awesome power I have to defy you is unbelievable! None of the Big Sky could get in the MWC now, and only Davis and possibly Sac St bring enough media power. The MWC will look to Texas if it needs more teams. Sac St football only has a real chance to sway the Sac media at the FBS level.

The Idaho President would be run out of town if he doesn't have an FBS plan. Idaho could have dropped to FCS before, but they didn't even though that would have been a perfect plan before he was installed. A drop to FCS now will devastate their athletic department, and lose more money. Montana flirted with the WAC so they could force the other Sky schools to accept the Dakotas. Why else did UND and USd voted in by NAU, Weber, ISU, etc, when they were adamantly opposed before? You never have had an answer before. Montana wants a Montana centric FBS conference, and has always wanted Dakota schools in. The fear of the Montana's leaving forced the Sky's hand.

If a school doesn't at least aim higher, it doesn't have an athletic future.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Idaho St is building a new $20 mill 4000 seat arena for basketball on campus. ISU knows what the future will bring, as football will be in the WAC. ISU football badly needs upgrades, but ISU chose basketball upgrades.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Sioux, you have to be successful at the FCS level to even dream about moving to FBS or be located in a media Mecca like UTSA and Georgia State; neither are very strong FBS either. To really have a shot at moving. None of the schools you've mentioned have both consistent FCS success and or a large media following to draw from. None could afford a jump. There is a reason why Idaho is in the Sky now, why USD isn't and finally why NMSU isn't and that the Sky has the membership it does. It is only a matter of time before Idaho has to drop down. Nobody wanted them. They don't have a media market, good facilities, or success. Now you suddenly think they are a viable footing to build a new FBS league on? NMSU is just as bad or worse. All the others don't have one or either of the aforementioned elements necessary for making the jump.

After Sacramento and Portland, Weber is located in the next largest metropolitan area for Sky Schools. Ogden is smack in the middle of the 2.5M Wasatch Front that is experiencing an insane annual growth rate. Weber has some of the best facilities not only in the Sky but at the FCS level. Consistent Football success hurts but the state has the players available for an excellent FCS program.

As for your argument, you almost could have convinced me, but you mentioned a lot of schools that aren't viable options. USD and UND at the top but worse of all is Eastern. Eastern doesn't have a chance at moving up. Washington State would never want that type of competition who cares about Gonzaga cause it's private, but that's the same problem as Utah State and Weber. Besides the football stadium expansion would be a waste. They can't even fill their 9k seat stadium consistently. It's not about the number of seats but the actual number of paying supporters who occupy the seats that matters.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Sioux, you have to be successful at the FCS level to even dream about moving to FBS or be located in a media Mecca like UTSA and Georgia State; neither are very strong FBS either. To really have a shot at moving. None of the schools you've mentioned have both consistent FCS success and or a large media following to draw from. None could afford a jump. There is a reason why Idaho is in the Sky now, why USD isn't and finally why NMSU isn't and that the Sky has the membership it does. It is only a matter of time before Idaho has to drop down. Nobody wanted them. They don't have a media market, good facilities, or success. Now you suddenly think they are a viable footing to build a new FBS league on? NMSU is just as bad or worse. All the others don't have one or either of the aforementioned elements necessary for making the jump.

After Sacramento and Portland, Weber is located in the next largest metropolitan area for Sky Schools. Ogden is smack in the middle of the 2.5M Wasatch Front that is experiencing an insane annual growth rate. Weber has some of the best facilities not only in the Sky but at the FCS level. Consistent Football success hurts but the state has the players available for an excellent FCS program.

As for your argument, you almost could have convinced me, but you mentioned a lot of schools that aren't viable options. USD and UND at the top but worse of all is Eastern. Eastern doesn't have a chance at moving up. Washington State would never want that type of competition who cares about Gonzaga cause it's private, but that's the same problem as Utah State and Weber. Besides the football stadium expansion would be a waste. They can't even fill their 9k seat stadium consistently. It's not about the number of seats but the actual number of paying supporters who occupy the seats that matters.

Weber St has the capacity to go FBS, but I don't think they have the will. The Ute's, the Y, and USU are just too strong of attractions for Weber St to make an impact in FBS.

Ever heard of T Denny Sanford, a billionaire credit card magnate from Sioux Falls? He's pledged to give his billions away, established the Sanford Health hospitals across the Dakotas. He is also builing a new football stadium for SDSU and a new basketball arena for USD, which will convert their dome into a football only facility seating more than 15,000. USD is the least capable Dakota school, but they have to try to keep up with SDSU. UND just built a 300 m indoor practice facility next to our old stadium. Rumors are that a Canadian billionaire alumnus will bank role a refurbishment if we go FBS. Coincidentally its in our athletic master plan, but we're not fundraising for it. Money is most important to go FBS. The NCAA even allows a schools foundation to buy unused tickets at a third of the price to meet FBS requirement. That how E Mich and other MAC schools can stay FBS.

EWUs most famous alumni, Colin Cowherd, favors an EWU move to FBS. EWU is not getting an MWC bid, so how does Cowherd think EWU can go FBS. Cheney is just fifteen minutes from Spokane, while WSU is 90 minutes away on winding on non interstate roads. EWU only has two FBS schools in a state with a much larger population than Utah. EWU must be incredibly foolish to fundraise for an 18k seat stadium, according to your logic. Cowherd says there will be a much larger TV contract available: he's Inna position to know.

When the next CFP contract is set, I think 2025, the Big Sky wants to participate. All G5 teams could get $2 mill or more for just being G5 schools. Now, the G5 gets $1 mill plus P5 guarantees, while FCS gets a piitance from P5 guarantees, which P5 conferences want to eliminate FCS games, and the FCS playoffs often lose money because the NCAA takes almost all of it. The Big Sky wants part of that G5 action. FCS is a financial loser. Even Idaho makes out better at FBS than could dream at FCS. Idaho get paid $1 million for a canceled game at Florida. They have at least two guaranteed away games a year, plus $1 mill from the CFP. Idaho won't give those up.

Texas St was never very successful at FCS, but they went FBS even though their in the shadow of UT. E Ky and Liberty are dying to go FBS and their not FCS powers.

 

[Siouxfan2]

Here's another imterview from Fullerton where he talks about the Big Sky splitting into FBS and FCS factions.

https://m.soundcloud.com/siriusxmcollege/doug-fullerton-look-out-for-the-fcs-in-the-next-4-5-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here a local Cedar City article where SUU's prez seems to say that SUU won't be a part of the Montanas move.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full_story/26742193/article-SUU-athletic-programs-shouldn-t-go-anywhere?instance=most_popular1#ixzz3fPD0YyK3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still think Weber won't go FBS, but will join WAC schools and make it a mostly Utah and Arizona league.

The NCAA is relooking at DI subdivisions right now.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Here's another imterview from Fullerton where he talks about the Big Sky splitting into FBS and FCS factions.

https://m.soundcloud.com/siriusxmcollege/doug-fullerton-look-out-for-the-fcs-in-the-next-4-5-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here a local Cedar City article where SUU's prez seems to say that SUU won't be a part of the Montanas move.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full_story/26742193/article-SUU-athletic-programs-shouldn-t-go-anywhere?instance=most_popular1#ixzz3fPD0YyK3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still think Weber won't go FBS, but will join WAC schools and make it a mostly Utah and Arizona league.

The NCAA is relooking at DI subdivisions right now.

Commissioner Fullerton will be visiting with Weber State fans, and Ogdenites, on August 20; 6pm @ Downtown Bookstore (2314 Washington Blvd). This will give fans a chance to talk to Fullerton directly. I have been in two meetings where I heard the commissioner talk about "his" plan and I'm sure he will talk about the same things again.

By the way, neither of these two links prove anything that you have been spouting. SUU has a new president that thinks DII is the better option. It would be tragic for SUU, but who cares. That is a SUU issue, not a Big Sky, and frankly, that article never stated anything dealing with Fullerton and "his" plan of moving the Big Sky to FBS. Which, by the way, according to the first link, would be a total conference move, not a handful of schools.

I don't know how you can make the assumption, and that is what it is, that Fullerton wants to split the Sky, from his interview. He mostly talked about Vernon Adams, and what will solidify College Football. He spoke adamantly about the split between the P6 and G5 and how the Sky will be able to be part of the G5 without any hiccups. He didn't say anything about a split. And the article from Iron County, never even mentioned the Montanas or their supposed move (the one only you think is happening, not even Montana fans think so), just that the President wants to drop to DII and how that won't happen. Wow...you tend to spin things a little too much. That was quite the fantastical statement you made.

 

[Webergrad02]

Here's another imterview from Fullerton where he talks about the Big Sky splitting into FBS and FCS factions.

https://m.soundcloud.com/siriusxmcollege/doug-fullerton-look-out-for-the-fcs-in-the-next-4-5-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here a local Cedar City article where SUU's prez seems to say that SUU won't be a part of the Montanas move.

http://www.ironcountytoday.com/view/full_story/26742193/article-SUU-athletic-programs-shouldn-t-go-anywhere?instance=most_popular1#ixzz3fPD0YyK3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still think Weber won't go FBS, but will join WAC schools and make it a mostly Utah and Arizona league.

The NCAA is relooking at DI subdivisions right now.

This doesn't even remotely mention what you say it does. Take your chicken little "the big sky is falling" crap some place else.