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The sad part for me is like Wood said people from right in your own city don't want this for us . Its really odd. That's also been something i never could understand about Sacramento is the negativity toward anything that is beneficial or new to the area. Even when it cost locals nothing they find negativity in anything positive or forward moving around this city. Its odd and its sad.
 
LoveSacState said:
The sad part for me is like Wood said people from right in your own city don't want this for us . Its really odd. That's also been something i never could understand about Sacramento is the negativity toward anything that is beneficial or new to the area. Even when it cost locals nothing they find negativity in anything positive or forward moving around this city. Its odd and its sad.
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They secretly worship the phagies. Guess its not really secrative, they swoon ad nauseum.
 
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LoveSacState said:
The sad part for me is like Wood said people from right in your own city don't want this for us . It’s really odd. That's also been something i never could understand about Sacramento is the negativity toward anything that is beneficial or new to the area. Even when it cost locals nothing they find negativity in anything positive or forward moving around this city. It’s odd and it’s sad.
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Hornet25 said:
NDSU is paying 18 mil to move up and they are a premiere program. Why, if they are so coveted by everyone, do they have to pay anything? No one is criticizing NDSU, so I find the outrage about the cost paid by Sac State disingenuous.
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NDSU paying is sheer desperation, no doubt. But this group of posters obviously want public perception to be in your favor. Public perception is that NDSU’s 10 title from 2011 earned them a bid, and Sac State has a couple recent quarterfinal bids that featured a lad who’d have been a generational talent at most schools. Note: even I’m having to come to terms with the concept that American public perception seems to favor pro/rel, and I’m a soccer fan.

(Side note: the NDSU sheer desperation isn’t lost on me. Makes me think a lot of FCS schools have football programs that are headed for the graveyard, which in Portland State’s case would probably be a mercy killing.)

I remember training to be a referee. The key words were “you will be tested.” This includes the people who think your money should go to their cause rather than yours. Dr. Wood is unrealistic or awfully defensive to express shock that not everyone in Sacramento is in favor of this. I’m surprised that you’re surprised. I know that, if Portland State were in your shoes right now, the blowback would probably be worse. Competition happens.

I suspect many FBS fans (puts on my Oregon hat) think the level is already bloated, and want you to go away. You will be tested.

One burden I have is to think of this as a business case. Who do you want to see actually come to Sacramento? I would guess at least the new Pac-12 schools, if not the old ones. But I recall in the late Idaho FBS days (after the independent year when Fresno State somehow honored their commitment to come to Moscow) that they got a couple of MAC schools, UNLV when they were bad, and a handful of FCS schools, to a stadium bigger than what the Railyards will be at initial completion. One of the answers I received to a post on the facilities thread was that you would be able to host FBS teams now. I doubt you’ll see anyone relevant… until you have a stadium that matters enough. That 2-year-old rendering the Woods produced was two-thirds of the way to what you need to do that. None of the subsequent proposals get you there. Think of it this way… none of the really big SEC schools have ever visited Eugene.
 
LoveSacState said:
The sad part for me is like Wood said people from right in your own city don't want this for us . Its really odd. That's also been something i never could understand about Sacramento is the negativity toward anything that is beneficial or new to the area. Even when it cost locals nothing they find negativity in anything positive or forward moving around this city. Its odd and its sad.
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It's the NIMBY mindset. Regarding the LeBron hit piece author, he's not from the area so I view it as him just taking potshots trying to make a name for himself. Just a typical smear merchant doing smear merchant things. Yawn.
 
Good post Pounder. As mentioned, I don't have an issue with the criticism of our move. What I find mildly shocking (and mostly entertaining) are the narratives completely irrelevant to our move. Success at the JV level isn't a metric as shown by recent FBS additions who had little to no success in JV. Ironically the fact that NDSU, who dominated JV for 15 years, has to pay a hefty entry fee to gain an FBS invite tells you all you need to know about the value of success wrt an FBS invite.

When we submitted our FBS Indy application last summer, the reason for not allowing us to move up was not having an invite from an FBS conference. None of the other narratives (funding, success) were ever given as a justification by the NCAA to decline our waiver because they are either irrelevant (success) or we met the requirement (funding). We were lacking an FBS invite and Dr. Wood went out and got one and the pundits are big mad he didn't fail.
 
SDHornet said:
Good post Pounder. As mentioned, I don't have an issue with the criticism of our move. What I find mildly shocking (and mostly entertaining) are the narratives completely irrelevant to our move. Success at the JV level isn't a metric as shown by recent FBS additions who had little to no success in JV. Ironically the fact that NDSU, who dominated JV for 15 years, has to pay a hefty entry fee to gain an FBS invite tells you all you need to know about the value of success wrt an FBS invite.

When we submitted our FBS Indy application last summer, the reason for not allowing us to move up was not having an invite from an FBS conference. None of the other narratives (funding, success) were ever given as a justification by the NCAA to decline our waiver because they are either irrelevant (success) or we met the requirement (funding). We were lacking an FBS invite and Dr. Wood went out and got one and the pundits are big mad he didn't fail.
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I couldn't agree more with what you have said here SD. As for the facilities that Pounder mentions, there has been no indication that the Railyards is where Sac State would play, Secondly, there are already plans issued to make the stadium 20k plus. Thirdly, comparing Sac State with Idaho I don't get. I understand there are some that don't like it but just because you cant see the vision that Word/Orr have for this doesn't make them wrong and those that think they are dumb or stupid right. I for one am happy to see the attempt to be something bigger. If it fails it fails but not tying to make progress is worse to me. I believe there will be a time in the next 4-5 years where if you don't make the jump to FBS now you will have almost impossible odds to do it then. I believe Wood/Orr are smart to do this now no matter the backlash so they won't have to deal with the coming lock down later. It could also end up costing other FCS/JV programs tons more than Sac State or NSU paid late if they were to get a invite down the line..
 
LoveSacState said:
I couldn't agree more with what you have said here SD. As for the facilities that Pounder mentions, there has been no indication that the Railyards is where Sac State would play, Secondly, there are already plans issued to make the stadium 20k plus. Thirdly, comparing Sac State with Idaho I don't get. I understand there are some that don't like it but just because you cant see the vision that Word/Orr have for this doesn't make them wrong and those that think they are dumb or stupid right. I for one am happy to see the attempt to be something bigger. If it fails it fails but not tying to make progress is worse to me. I believe there will be a time in the next 4-5 years where if you don't make the jump to FBS now you will have almost impossible odds to do it then. I believe Wood/Orr are smart to do this now no matter the backlash so they won't have to deal with the coming lock down later. It could also end up costing other FCS/JV programs tons more than Sac State or NSU paid late if they were to get a invite down the line..
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There are only a handful (5) of schools who can pay what Sac paid that are currently JV level to move to FBS.

They dont have the student population (tax), the endowment (Sac didnt) or all in by their state government (Montucky isnt).
 
LoveSacState said:
I couldn't agree more with what you have said here SD. As for the facilities that Pounder mentions, there has been no indication that the Railyards is where Sac State would play, Secondly, there are already plans issued to make the stadium 20k plus. Thirdly, comparing Sac State with Idaho I don't get. I understand there are some that don't like it but just because you cant see the vision that Word/Orr have for this doesn't make them wrong and those that think they are dumb or stupid right. I for one am happy to see the attempt to be something bigger. If it fails it fails but not tying to make progress is worse to me. I believe there will be a time in the next 4-5 years where if you don't make the jump to FBS now you will have almost impossible odds to do it then. I believe Wood/Orr are smart to do this now no matter the backlash so they won't have to deal with the coming lock down later. It could also end up costing other FCS/JV programs tons more than Sac State or NSU paid late if they were to get a invite down the line..
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I agree with what you are saying but you are giving Orr entirely too much credit. The moves we are making are all because of Wood and his vision. The only time Orr speaks is when Wood shoves his hand up his ass.
 
SDHornet said:
Success at the JV level isn't a metric as shown by recent FBS additions who had little to no success in JV. Ironically the fact that NDSU, who dominated JV for 15 years, has to pay a hefty entry fee to gain an FBS invite tells you all you need to know about the value of success wrt an FBS invite.
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Nobody cares about NDST’s FCS history, especially those in the FBS. That’s why they had to spend a lot to get in, too.

And those in FBS realize (or should) that Sac State has way more potential upside than NDST at the FBS level, as you don’t see many highly successful FBS programs outside of a top TV market and far away from a large metro area.

Fargo is nearly 250 miles from the nearest large metro population and TV market in Minneapolis. And Minneapolis has their own in-state programs to support and follow. Good luck to NDST in drawing top level athletes to such a remote area lacking a legit tv market. They landed top level FCS talent, largely due to their long standing success, but I’m skeptical that most FBS hopefuls will want to go play in Fargo over the myriad of other options available to them. I see them struggling to keep up with larger metro city programs like Nebraska has the past 20 years.

While the Hornets won’t draw many, if any, elite level athletes away from larger markets either — they should be able to retain more of their own from the Sac metro area.
 
BuckeyeHornetFan said:
Nobody cares about NDST’s FCS history, especially those in the FBS. That’s why they had to spend a lot to get in, too.

And those in FBS realize (or should) that Sac State has way more potential upside than NDST at the FBS level, as you don’t see many highly successful FBS programs outside of a top TV market and far away from a large metro area.

Fargo is nearly 250 miles from the nearest large metro population and TV market in Minneapolis. And Minneapolis has their own in-state programs to support and follow. Good luck to NDST in drawing top level athletes to such a remote area lacking a legit tv market. They landed top level FCS talent, largely due to their long standing success, but I’m skeptical that most FBS hopefuls will want to go play in Fargo over the myriad of other options available to them. I see them struggling to keep up with larger metro city programs like Nebraska has the past 20 years.

While the Hornets won’t draw many, if any, elite level athletes away from larger markets either — they should be able to retain more of their own from the Sac metro area.
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Competitively NDSU will be fine. The MW is losing their better programs to the nPAC so it will be a shell of its former self which bodes well for NDSU. NDSU was able to get to where they were in JV because there are no G6 programs in their backyard competing for recruits. All the recruits overlooked by regional B1G programs like Minnesota and Wisconsin were left either leaving the region or staying home at NDSU (and later the other Dakotas). NDSU will now be the premier G6 program in their region and it will go a long way on the recruiting trail.

NDSU's problem will be on the financial side. Maybe they have a plan to scale things up to cover the additional costs, time will tell and winning cures all.
 
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