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Shocker, Hinrichs jumping ship
- Thread starter Phineas J. Whoopee
- Start date
bearsradio
Active member
Low hanging fruit: CSU game. On average, nearly 1100 this year for mens games.Ursa Major said:
This is where your perspective is flawed, Ursa. This a program that hadn't won 11 games since the transition, and only four last year. There is marked improvement, and a true point guard from h.s. that has three players already inked with D-1 programs is a step in the right direction for next year. You seem to have the viewpoint that a program should jump from 4 wins to an NCAA berth, which is almost unheard of. Given the depths of where the programs was, the progress of this season should be seen as two steps in the right direction.
Discussed? Yes. Implemented? No. That's where I believe the credit goes to Jay, as he found ways to get the wheels rolling on what were changes that weren't going to happen under Fallis.
gobears
Active member
Damnit!!!BearCub said:
bearsradio said:
Jay was not the only one who implimented the facility upgrades. Specificaly Ken McConalouge(sp?) and Bob Hetzel did as much to get the refrendums passed as Jay did.
Who cares weather people look at the glass on Jay and see it as half full or half empty. It is still half - aka 50%, which is a failing grade. I think any reasonable person would say that at most Jay's good qualities equal his bad ones, and we should demand more that that. Who cares if the AD is "a very political position"? He seems to like pissing people off for the sake of doing it, and he operates the athletic department in a "my way or the highway" fashion, which for a department that relies on public support, is not going to turn out well.
Who cares if Fallis was a crappy AD, it doesent mean we should not expect more from his sucessor. Meerly sucking less than the guy before you is not a lofty aspiration.
And finally, clearly Jay is interested in going elsewhere, so why should we keep him around? Widthdrawl from consideration or not, Jay sent in an application, which means he wants to leave. After what Fallis did in his final few months at UNC, why should we keep Jay around to screw things up like Fallis did?
uncfootballrules
Active member
This sucks - just when I was getting excited for some good news in the program. Jay please reconsider and reapply - UND needs you.
Hinrichs reign has been average at best. Giving him a "C" would be pushing it (more like D+ or C-). Only two good points that I see, some facility upgrades and the hire of Boyle may have been a good one - time will tell. The negatives are out there too - alienating the boosters, decimating the football program, spending money for the facility upgrades in some questionable areas (glad we have a nice soccer field, but honestly do the 200 people that attend the games really notice?) just to name a few. Hiring a basketball guy for a football school was a mistake.
Fallis was bad, but if I'm not mistaken he is holding his own at NAU - didn't they just announce a roughly $100 million facility upgrade?
Irregardless I think we can do better and hopefully the administration (that means you Kay) can read the writing on the wall and do something about it so we are not at the mercy of the hiring committee of some other school.
P.S. Go Bears - damn good points.
Hinrichs reign has been average at best. Giving him a "C" would be pushing it (more like D+ or C-). Only two good points that I see, some facility upgrades and the hire of Boyle may have been a good one - time will tell. The negatives are out there too - alienating the boosters, decimating the football program, spending money for the facility upgrades in some questionable areas (glad we have a nice soccer field, but honestly do the 200 people that attend the games really notice?) just to name a few. Hiring a basketball guy for a football school was a mistake.
Fallis was bad, but if I'm not mistaken he is holding his own at NAU - didn't they just announce a roughly $100 million facility upgrade?
Irregardless I think we can do better and hopefully the administration (that means you Kay) can read the writing on the wall and do something about it so we are not at the mercy of the hiring committee of some other school.
P.S. Go Bears - damn good points.
uncfootballrules
Active member
It didn't get much run last time I posted, but I will put it out there again.
Kay Norton - here is the Readers Digest version of what to do with the athletic program:
1. Fire Jay.
2. Hire Rick Hartzell
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=uni-ad-rick-hartzell-resigns-post&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Kay Norton - here is the Readers Digest version of what to do with the athletic program:
1. Fire Jay.
2. Hire Rick Hartzell
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/?title=uni-ad-rick-hartzell-resigns-post&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
UNCBearsSupporter
Member
Jay has done some good things. And a lot of the good things he did in his first year or so hurt the department later (i.e. budget problems).
When Fallis left, the department needed some changes but overall was doing fine athletically. The transition was on but they had some people in place to succeed and some good stuff. Now with any transition you are going to have personnel turnover ... but what happened at UNC over a 2-year time period was ridiculous. A virtually new staff came on board and several positions came and went multiple times.
His first year he listened to people and spent money on things the department needed. But as it turned out there really wasn't any money there since he put a halt to the Blue & Gold club and the Reverse Raffle went away.
Best hire: Tad Boyle. But it is not like he plucked Tad to somewhere he had no ties too; Tad was a Greeley guy and it was a somewhat easy decision to "come home." Worst hire: Scott Downing. He was hired simply because he was at a "big-time Division I school." It had nothing to do with his coaching ability in my opinion.
Facilities - the plan was there but Jay did help get it done. Most of the improvements were great, save the baseball program getting screwed after being told they were getting upgrades, only to have them cut (he even wanted to cut the program but it hasn't happened yet). Hello - 10 Division I College World Series appearances - no UNC program has more tradition than baseball. Kevin Smallcomb does more with less than any other UNC program (but that is another argument).
I will admit Jay was in a tough job - a reclassifying school with not much of a budget. But he has been unable to raise big money and ticked off most big-time donors. He uses an approach he learned from the Kansas A.D. - the problem is UNC is NOT Kansas and things that work there do not work at UNC.
No A.D. stays anywhere forever. Jay will eventually move on.
When Fallis left, the department needed some changes but overall was doing fine athletically. The transition was on but they had some people in place to succeed and some good stuff. Now with any transition you are going to have personnel turnover ... but what happened at UNC over a 2-year time period was ridiculous. A virtually new staff came on board and several positions came and went multiple times.
His first year he listened to people and spent money on things the department needed. But as it turned out there really wasn't any money there since he put a halt to the Blue & Gold club and the Reverse Raffle went away.
Best hire: Tad Boyle. But it is not like he plucked Tad to somewhere he had no ties too; Tad was a Greeley guy and it was a somewhat easy decision to "come home." Worst hire: Scott Downing. He was hired simply because he was at a "big-time Division I school." It had nothing to do with his coaching ability in my opinion.
Facilities - the plan was there but Jay did help get it done. Most of the improvements were great, save the baseball program getting screwed after being told they were getting upgrades, only to have them cut (he even wanted to cut the program but it hasn't happened yet). Hello - 10 Division I College World Series appearances - no UNC program has more tradition than baseball. Kevin Smallcomb does more with less than any other UNC program (but that is another argument).
I will admit Jay was in a tough job - a reclassifying school with not much of a budget. But he has been unable to raise big money and ticked off most big-time donors. He uses an approach he learned from the Kansas A.D. - the problem is UNC is NOT Kansas and things that work there do not work at UNC.
No A.D. stays anywhere forever. Jay will eventually move on.
UNCBearsSupporter
Member
uncfootballrules said:
Rick Hartzell is happy living in Cedar Falls with his wife and kids and his business as well as ref'ing games. He doesn't need a job like Northern Colorado.
bearsradio
Active member
uncfootballrules said:
They just announced the findings of a task force, recommending facility upgrades. They need to raise the money, which is where the determination of Fallis' success there will hang.
One of the top factors in Scott's hiring was his familiarity with the region from his days at Wyoming and Nebraska, a plus in recruiting.
Blofeld
Active member
I belive we have been fully funded in basketball scholarships from day one... I think it only jumps from 11 to 13 when you go from D-II to D-I.
But anyway, did Heinrichs go out and beat the bushes and find Boyle... like maybe he did with Jamie White, or did Boyle apply for the job once it became open because he is from Greeley? If Boyle was from Appleton, WI would he now be the UNC coach? I tend to think not.
The reality is if the football team came out next year and went 6-5 all this would be forgotten...
But anyway, did Heinrichs go out and beat the bushes and find Boyle... like maybe he did with Jamie White, or did Boyle apply for the job once it became open because he is from Greeley? If Boyle was from Appleton, WI would he now be the UNC coach? I tend to think not.
The reality is if the football team came out next year and went 6-5 all this would be forgotten...
bearsfan7778
Member
I'm not saying Jay is right in many of the things he has done in the past or will continue to do but I will never fault him for looking at another job. AD is a position, like many in athletics, that if you aren't looking to move up you're going backward. If he wants to leave great and if he didn't I'd personally question the man's ambition. Northern Colorado like it or not is a stepping stone for many employed there, AD included. It always has and always will be. Doesn't matter if he's had success or not he has experience and that's worth a lot in the world of athletics.
bearsradio
Active member
Because there was a percieved lack of institutional control over B&G. I don't profess to know all the details of how it was set up at the time, but I heard through various sources there were concerns about that if it wasn't revamped or brought farther under athletic department control, it could pose NCAA issues.
While it pissed off a lot of supporters, the intent was for protecting the athletic department. Sometimes the best intentions...
While it pissed off a lot of supporters, the intent was for protecting the athletic department. Sometimes the best intentions...
bearsradio said:Because there was a percieved lack of institutional control over B&G. I don't profess to know all the details of how it was set up at the time, but I heard through various sources there were concerns about that if it wasn't revamped or brought farther under athletic department control, it could pose NCAA issues.
While it pissed off a lot of supporters, the intent was for protecting the athletic department. Sometimes the best intentions...
So did Jay communicate this with the B&G? If what you say is true Troy then the donars shouldn't have been so upset.
Ursa Major
Active member
You ever go hunting? Just because you see a deer standing next to a road in May, doesn't mean he is still going to be standing there in September. Downings days at Wyo are long past so it is a little difficult to swallow the "familiarity with the region" argument. Hell, I could look at a map of Nebraska, state that LIncoln is on the East end, and claim familiarity with the region.bearsradio said:
I noticed that we had a good recruiting class...now I want to see what he will do with it.
Downing was hired because Jay thought we would drink the "He's from Nebraska so he has to be good" Kool-aid. Had he talked to any of Downings peer's, they would have told him," He's a great guy and a good coach...but he's not a head coach". We could have had Alford or Collins...BBBUUTTT NNOOOOO.
You ever go hunting? Just because you see a deer standing next to a road in May, doesn't mean he is still going to be standing there in September. Downings days at Wyo are long past so it is a little difficult to swallow the "familiarity with the region" argument. Hell, I could look at a map of Nebraska, state that LIncoln is on the East end, and claim familiarity with the region.Ursa Major said:
I noticed that we had a good recruiting class...now I want to see what he will do with it.
Downing was hired because Jay thought we would drink the "He's from Nebraska so he has to be good" Kool-aid. Had he talked to any of Downings peer's, they would have told him," He's a great guy and a good coach...but he's not a head coach". We could have had Alford or Collins...BBBUUTTT NNOOOOO.[/quote]
His peers? Bill Callahan said Downing would "dominate" this level, just becaues of how well he can recruit.
I still have hope for Downing. I think 4-5 wins is possible, I'll be somewhat pleased. Anything below that, I'll be off the bandwagon. However, even with those 4-5 wins, if we keep getting shut out of games on home coming and keep losing to D2 teams, then I'll be off the bandwagon even with those wins.
bearsradio
Active member
Ursa Major said:
Ursa, have you talked to Jay directly to get this comment? Members of the search committee? Do you have access to Jay's mind like something out of "Being John Malkovich"? You denigrate my comment that is based on discussions with members of the search committee, yet then express opinion that may or may not have basis in fact.
Please identify opinion as such, and quit expressing it as factual.
###
As to why the B&G members got upset, I believe its probably because there was no real warning or conversation that might have reached common ground.
uncfootballrules
Active member
From what I heard, Callahan was going to fire Downing. I don't know that as "fact" but I heard it from enough sources I believe to be credible that I think it is probably true.
4 - 5 wins next year will mean losing 7 - 8 games. I seriously doubt that will be enough to save his job. That would bring him to something like 6-29 overall. That will not be enough to renew his contract. I would think he needs to win 7-8 games and show that the program is really turned around. He also needs to show that they can return to dominance at home and put some butts in the seats.
