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so...

PBP said:
Either way the bottom line is this, as of this writing no one...no one, has answered my question of, if you don't want to play any money games in football or men's basketball, how do you pay for the non money making programs? How do you keep the athletic department a float today?
Click to expand...

Pre-dic-ta-ble response. If ISU wants to compete at this level THEY need to figure it out.


I believe these to be facts: 1) ISU's scheduling changed at the end of Lewis's tenure, 2) in 2012, 7 of 13 BSC football programs played fewer money games in football than ISU and 3) ISU typically plays the most money games in the Big Sky Conference.
 
I think the thing everyone needs to understand is that the big 2 sports will not start making money until they start winning. If you make them play a large amount of $$ games then for football you risk injury and with both sports you risk the mental side of getting your tails kicked that hard.

My vote is that if you are going to play $$ for football go out and make sure you are getting the biggest pay day you can. Arkansas State from what I was told got 1,000,000 to play Nebraska a week before ISU played. ISU needs to try to negotiate as much into the guarantee as possible. ISU will probably always have to play two Football $$ games, but hopefully we are getting as much as possible.

Football and MBB must be successful in order for ISU Athletics to be successful. The real question is why can't they? Why can't those 2 win more? I think it is because like you said PBP the dept leans on them to fund the other sports. And by doing that those 2 sports simply do not have the resources to be successful. Any extra money is used to stay in the black or fund another sport that spent more than they took in, it is not used to make the Big 2 better. Some is (Football Turf) but the large majority is not.

I am not sure if it is even possible to look up this figure. But if we want to talk budgets and money, we need to look at what the top 4-5 Football and Basketball teams budgets are for Recruiting and Team Travel, and then look at ISU's. It doesn't matter as much as you think if coaches are getting out coached. What matters is are they getting out spent. All coaches at this level have some knowledge and experience, hell they wouldn't be here if they didn't. They question is are they a member of the Club Haves or Club Have nots? and why is that????
 
Bio:

Thanks for not answering the question.

Pre-dic-ta-ble.

Criticize and make light of a difficult situation because it doesn't agree with your point of view...then mock those who try to explain the reality of things while offering NOTHING in the way of a solution. If this was so easy to fix, bio, the powers that be would have already done so. I go back to something my late dad always told me, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Every school in the Big Sky (with the exception of Montana some years) PLAYS A MONEY GAME. I simply do not agree that playing ONE (not two more, or four more) more money game than a lot of the schools in the Big Sky makes or breaks ISU's football season. I simply don't.

ONE GAME BIO. Think about that.

And again going back to your first post because you imply a few things. I have a contract to do a job for ISU, I do that job to the best of my ability regardless of what the record of the football or basketball teams are. In that sense I work for ISU but it is not a full time position so to infer that I'm some sort of an excuse maker or stooge for ISU is 100% wrong.

Again we're going to have to agree to disagree on this matter.

PBP
 
E5:

The reason Arkansas State got a million is because they are considered a FBS school. They are in the Sun Belt Conference.

I think, Skippy would know for sure, that when FBS schools play one another the minimum amount in the pay out is one million. (Why do you think Idaho is trying to schedule every big power they can in their effort to survive as an independent. Idaho is considered now an FBS independent so they get the same minimum guarantee.)

ISU is in the FCS division, they are not guaranteed anything expect what they can negotiate and that holds true for every school in the FCS.

The department 'leans' on football and men's basketball to help the other sports because those are the only sports where the pay out is substancial. I mean, the women's golf team isn't going to play at Augusta for 500 hundred thousand against Georgia State! :)

PBP
 
PBP said:
Bio:

Thanks for not answering the question.

Pre-dic-ta-ble.
Click to expand...

I don't know and it's not for me to figure out.

PBP said:
Criticize and make light of a difficult situation because it doesn't agree with your point of view...then mock those who try to explain the reality of things while offering NOTHING in the way of a solution. If this was so easy to fix, bio, the powers that be would have already done so. I go back to something my late dad always told me, "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
Click to expand...

I make light of a difficult situation? You, sir, are mistaken.

PBP said:
And again going back to your first post because you imply a few things. I have a contract to do a job for ISU, I do that job to the best of my ability regardless of what the record of the football or basketball teams are. In that sense I work for ISU but it is not a full time position so to infer that I'm some sort of an excuse maker or stooge for ISU is 100% wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't insinuate anything of the sort... only that you're dead wrong on this issue.
 
PBP said:
Humble:

you probably are going to have to abandon the football program altogether because of the same legal requirements. (proportionality)

So again Humble...you tell me... WHERE IS THE MONEY TO SUPPORT THESE LEGALLY MANDATED PROGRAMS GOING TO COME FROM?

Should I hang up and wait for your answer?
Click to expand...

At this point that is probably the best solution.

Should I hang up and wait for another lecture?
 
Agree we will never get 1,000,000 for a money game since we are not FBS. I just hope that we are getting what other schools at our level are getting, or we are using contacts within School or State to help get top dollar. I'm sure that FormerISUSID could get us 1,000,000 at New Mexico next year.... :)

Everyone that is on here has good points. And just like our Presidential election next month we are all not going to agree on what the problem is or who is responsible. I hope that none of you think that I am attacking any of you personally. I am new to msg boards, once I get to 100 posts I figure I will hit my stride!
 
ISU needs to play money games since they need to make up for all of the tickets they give away ;)

http://isubengals.com/news/2012/10/29/FB_1029122655.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seriously, how does this help? What incentive is there for a season ticket holder to purchase tickets in advance when ISU commonly throws out half-price and free ticket promotions? ISU stinks at marketing. While it's great to do something once in a while, constantly doing it every season - and for more than one game - devalues the product.

I have no problem with a money game. One. That's it. It's time to build the program. It's time to ask what the benefit of football to the school is. I can think of many. If the administration's answer is that it provides funding for the other sports, then it's time to take a long hard look at things.

Senter increased the staffing of the department, and many of the individuals he hired were responsible for fundraising. It's my understanding that some of these people knew they were responsible for raising their own salaries. Maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box once again.

The next time Tingey is a guest on the radio show, it would be interesting to ask him what his thoughts are about the imminent FBS playoffs. A strength of schedule component is going to be added, and many think it will drastically decrease the amount of FCS vs FBS games. It may or may not happen, but I think it is somewhat risky to rely on FBS games as a necessary component of funding.
 
Sas:

Those are some good points. I hope Jeff is available to come on the show again but that's not up to me. I don't think (my opinion) that the department thinks the only reason for football is to pay for the other sports, not at all, but that is a function of football today in this environment...again just part of the function as it is for most of the colleges in the U.S.

Humble:

Not lecturing, not my style nor my place just pointing out what should be obvious to all (but apparantly isn't)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something else everyone needs to keep in mind going forward. ISU, I suspect, because of the nursing, dental and elementary educational majors is getting more and more females on campus. I'd be curious if any other Big Sky schools have more females to males in the student population. The last I saw I thought there were more females to males at ISU but that was a few years ago.

What this means in regards to Title IX is the pressure is only going to increase on the athletic department to stay within the propotional guidlines set by the law. Remember it's not the number of female athletes participating but the number of total female students compared to male students that dictates how many sports (opportunities) you must have in place.

If they number keeps going up at least one more sport on the women's side will have to be added or something will have to be dropped from the men (and there aren't many men's sports left...) to keep the ratio in-line.

If you keep all the men's sports and add a women's one, the same problem applies, 'where are you going to get the money to pay for it?' (Answer at least for now, like it or not...."money games" which as Skippy pointed out in an earlier post provides a great percentage of the money needed to keep things going in the department.)

Plus you have the guidelines of the Big Sky Conference which require certain sports to be played if you want to be a member. It's probably in their by-laws.

Today I don't know why anybody would want to be a coach at the college level...you can say the same thing about wanting to be an AD.

I don't know if this problem at ISU is ever solvable myself but there are smart people around the program who at least give it a chance to get resolved.

PBP
 
sasquatch said:
ISU needs to play money games since they need to make up for all of the tickets they give away ;)

http://isubengals.com/news/2012/10/29/FB_1029122655.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seriously, how does this help? What incentive is there for a season ticket holder to purchase tickets in advance when ISU commonly throws out half-price and free ticket promotions? ISU stinks at marketing. While it's great to do something once in a while, constantly doing it every season - and for more than one game - devalues the product.

I have no problem with a money game. One. That's it. It's time to build the program. It's time to ask what the benefit of football to the school is. I can think of many. If the administration's answer is that it provides funding for the other sports, then it's time to take a long hard look at things.

Senter increased the staffing of the department, and many of the individuals he hired were responsible for fundraising. It's my understanding that some of these people knew they were responsible for raising their own salaries. Maybe it's time to start thinking outside the box once again.

The next time Tingey is a guest on the radio show, it would be interesting to ask him what his thoughts are about the imminent FBS playoffs. A strength of schedule component is going to be added, and many think it will drastically decrease the amount of FCS vs FBS games. It may or may not happen, but I think it is somewhat risky to rely on FBS games as a necessary component of funding.
Click to expand...

Sasquatch nailed this one.
 
Quiting is not option. Our team will be on the practice field on Tuesday morning getting ready for the NAU game. NAU is currently in first place in the Big Sky Conference and is a nationally ranked team. The question is, "Can we win this game at Holt Arena"? Believe me, NAU will not back down in this game as a win for them guarantees them a playoff birth and a possible Big Sky Championship. If they win their next three games they will be the Big Sky Champions.
 
"Believe me, NAU will not back down in this game." Are you kidding me, why would anyone think that they would? Certainly not because they are in 1st place in the Big Sky. The way ISU is playing right now, playing at Holt doesn't look to a big advantage. If ISU wins this I will laugh all the way to the bank. I'd even bet on them, well, with the right point spread. Go Bengals, make my day!
 
For those who might have missed the coaches show tonight, Mike said that some JUCO players who want to get into health sciences have been contacting him and ISU about coming on-board for next season.

He said he won't go out and actively recruit JUCO players but if they call him and are good students and can play he'll certainly listen.

My impression is that some of these guys may be coming to the program for next year.

PBP
 
PBP said:
For those who might have missed the coaches show tonight, Mike said that some JUCO players who want to get into health sciences have been contacting him and ISU about coming on-board for next season.

He said he won't go out and actively recruit JUCO players but if they call him and are good students and can play he'll certainly listen.

My impression is that some of these guys may be coming to the program for next year.

PBP
Click to expand...

Sounds like a convenient way for Kramer & Co.to say that (1) ISU really does need to recruit and add a contingent of JUCO players to be remotely competitive but (2) won't admit that because (3) then we'd have to say that we shouldn't have taken that stand to begin with and (4) people (fans) will buy this story because.......(5) people (fans) are gullible and are enamored with everything Kramer says. :notworthy:

Lets see what develops and how this story will undoubtedly change over the months to come if questions are asked. :twocents:

Halloween night - trick or treat?
 
I was looking at last years standings. NAU was 3 -5 last year- what a turn around. This just shows what is possible in this conference.
 
....question for VOTB or PBP....is the coaches show 'archived" any where that we could go and listen to it?........goblins kept me busy last night.....thanks......
 
clawsout said:
....question for VOTB or PBP....is the coaches show 'archived" any where that we could go and listen to it?........goblins kept me busy last night.....thanks......
Click to expand...



Absolutely, archived every week. It usually takes them a couple of days to get it posted, but it's almost always there. Go to: http://www.isubengals.com, go to the Multimedia link...click on "Audio" in the drop down menu and the Stretch Internet page comes up. You have the option of tuning in to scheduled live events, or archived broadcasts.
 
JUCO players are considered experienced college players that can step in and fill a position that is needed right away. Henley, Yost, Graves, Richmond, and Arias are JUCO transfers. Good Players and good students....

Step down players are considered players that were not going to start for a BCS team so they decided to transfer to a FCS team so they have a chance at starting without losing eligibility. Boyles, Graves, and Hill are step down players. Good players and good students.

What's the problem for not seeking out or recruiting JUCO and step down players that are ISU academically qualified and approved? Why wait for JUCO and step down players to contact ISU? These type of players have enough repetitions on the practice field and have played in college games to step in immediately and help ISU win games next season.

The question is do we want to have a winning season next year by recruiting JUCO and step down players or do we want to wait for our freshmen and walkons to develop as players to have a winning season? To me, having a good mix of players that are JUCO, step down, freshmen, and walkons is the way to establish a winning program. When current players in the program know that JUCO and step down players are coming into the program they will know that their position is not a guarantee. The current players will know to work harder throughout the entire year to get bigger, faster, and stronger. Recruiting is all about filling the positions of need, creating competition on the team during practice, and putting the best players on the field to win games... Right now, the current players on the team already know who will be starting next season as they know incoming freshmen and walkons will not be taking their position.
 
It can always get worse, Western Carolina University of the Southern Conference, another struggling program, will play THREE money games next year.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?121934-Western-Carolina-to-play-THREE-quot-money-games-quot-in-2013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
up for the challenge said:
What's the problem for not seeking out or recruiting JUCO and step down players that are ISU academically qualified and approved? Why wait for JUCO and step down players to contact ISU? These type of players have enough repetitions on the practice field and have played in college games to step in immediately and help ISU win games next season.
Click to expand...

Two problems...ISU's APR recovery plan specifically addresses JUCO recruiting, and the standard to which ISU has to hold a JUCO player up precludes them from actively finding them. ISU can't recruit them per se. That's the first question.

The second is why doesn't ISU recruit "step down" players. First off...it's "drop down"...that's the correct term. Now, why ISU doesn't recruit them is the same reason that no one recruits them. You are not allowed to recruit them. When the student-athlete decides to ask for a release, the current school releases him to talk to certain schools (usually no other conference schools or a future opponent is a normal stipulation). Then, the student-athlete must contact any school he would like to pursue, stating interest. Then the new school (ISU in the this case), has the compliance officer contact the previous school, stating that the S-A has contacted them, and request permission to talk with the S-A. Once that is done...THEN talks can commence.

When Matt Guttierez announced he was leaving Michigan, Larry Lewis wanted him in the worst way, but he couldn't do anything until Matt contacted him.

Long answer, but that is the answer ...

FormerISUSID
 
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