When Does Rahe Get a Quality OOC Win?

[sapokama]

At the time, the Dayton win was impressive. But how did Dayton finish the season? At 17-14, no post-season play. The win looked less and less impressive. ORU was nice, but I believe we were favored to win, lets be real, ORU isnt the best of the best. The CIT was fun, but AF was bairly a .500 team, ORU (see before), Cal Poly (expected to win), Northern Iowa, this was a great win, yes on the road, but was their team really excited about this game, did they really want to be playing in the CIT? In the Rahe era, I am talking about OOC games.. We all know he has under achieved post-season play, including the BSC tourney games (see every year but 06-07). I have waited every March to evaluate the team, and the outcome is always the same, cant beat Montana, cant beat the press, meltdowns, poor free throw shooting etc.I have serious doubts about this team, Trez has been a non factor in every game minus BYU. He got beat around by UVU's
center, and thrown to the wolves in UCLA.

You make some good points, but I wouldn't write off the Northern Iowa game as not being excited about the game. I think that argument would be better if it was the first round of the CIT, but that was the semifinal game. Their crowd was into it, and UNI doesn't lose at home very often. They had one other home loss last year before that game, and they beat final four contestant Wichita State at home.

I think one problem with the lack of quality wins is that the gap between the Big Sky and other mid/upper major conferences is growing. There's a lot more teams playing D1 college basketball then there were 15-20 yrs ago and the talent is more spread out. Since 1999 there has been more than 30 schools join DI. The Big Sky foot print doesn't have a lot of desirable places for a high level student athlete to live and the population is sparce compared to other parts of the country. Local talent is not going to elevate a big sky program to be a higher level mid major. The Big Sky's RPI continues to get worse every year and if it doesn't change, a 16 seed every year or so will not be out of the question. If the Big Sky continues on it's current course, I think it will be nearly impossible to grow Weber to an elite mid major team that consistently wins those big OOC games, regardless of who the HC is.

By the way, I always love when you come and post Bengal visitor. You and MT Jack always bring great prospective.

 

[SWeberCat02]

At the time, the Dayton win was impressive. But how did Dayton finish the season? At 17-14, no post-season play. The win looked less and less impressive. ORU was nice, but I believe we were favored to win, lets be real, ORU isnt the best of the best. The CIT was fun, but AF was bairly a .500 team, ORU (see before), Cal Poly (expected to win), Northern Iowa, this was a great win, yes on the road, but was their team really excited about this game, did they really want to be playing in the CIT? In the Rahe era, I am talking about OOC games.. We all know he has under achieved post-season play, including the BSC tourney games (see every year but 06-07). I have waited every March to evaluate the team, and the outcome is always the same, cant beat Montana, cant beat the press, meltdowns, poor free throw shooting etc.I have serious doubts about this team, Trez has been a non factor in every game minus BYU. He got beat around by UVU's
center, and thrown to the wolves in UCLA.

You make some good points, but I wouldn't write off the Northern Iowa game as not being excited about the game. I think that argument would be better if it was the first round of the CIT, but that was the semifinal game. Their crowd was into it, and UNI doesn't lose at home very often. They had one other home loss last year before that game, and they beat final four contestant Wichita State at home.

I think one problem with the lack of quality wins is that the gap between the Big Sky and other mid/upper major conferences is growing. There's a lot more teams playing D1 college basketball then there were 15-20 yrs ago and the talent is more spread out. Since 1999 there has been more than 30 schools join DI. The Big Sky foot print doesn't have a lot of desirable places for a high level student athlete to live and the population is sparce compared to other parts of the country. Local talent is not going to elevate a big sky program to be a higher level mid major. The Big Sky's RPI continues to get worse every year and if it doesn't change, a 16 seed every year or so will not be out of the question. If the Big Sky continues on it's current course, I think it will be nearly impossible to grow Weber to an elite mid major team that consistently wins those big OOC games, regardless of who the HC is.

By the way, I always love when you come and post Bengal visitor. You and MT Jack always bring great prospective.

I think you nailed it. The Northern Iowa win was probably Rahe's signature OOC win, with Dayton a close second. And I think you're spot on in regards to the conference.

 

[SWeberCat02]

PSU was only given that seed because they came out of nowhere to win the conference tourney. This will happen again in other conferences this season likely raising our bid. Just curious, what's the BigSky's record in D-1 home games and road games this year?

Home: 13-10
Road: 7-43
Neutral: 2-7

Conference road wins: UNC @ K St, NAU @ TX-San Antonio, UM @ S Dakota St, ISU @ San Fran, MSU @ C Mich, Sac St @ UC Davis, and MSU @ Portland.

Things started out promising with UNC beating K State, and the conference was 3-3 in the first weekend of the season. But has been downhill since then. The conference hasn't won a game vs DI since UNC beat UC Riverside in Greeley on Dec 16. 10 straight overall losses.

The good news, if there is any, is that no one has lost to a non-D1 team.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Rose and Stew are their respective schools greatest coaches. It is the golden age of basketball at both BYU and USU. Rahe, is one of our best, but he isn't Phil Johnson or Ron Abegglen, but our basketball program is healthy and extremely successful. But, yes Weber is going to struggle against those schools, cause they are damn good programs.

Why the constant bitching? Yes, the Cats were expected to be a lot better. Yet, they aren't necessarily terrible. The only loss that really pisses me off was to UVU. But tell me the last time Weber won a game in Utah County?? Next, the Lillard never winning a championship isn't coaches fault. Who knew AJ would light up the Cats for 42? And that the team would be decimated by injuries Lillards last two years? Some of you seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. Lillard is amazing and I for one will cherish the memories of him wearing Wildcat purple, but he was only 1 guy.

Lastly, the win at Dayton was huge beating them at their place in front of 10K crazy fans. Hell, anytime the Cats get a win on a DI teams home floor is pretty darn important. The early season losses help the Cas win games on the road in conference.

 

[WeberSki]

Rose and Stew are their respective schools greatest coaches. It is the golden age of basketball at both BYU and USU. Rahe, is one of our best, but he isn't Phil Johnson or Ron Abegglen, but our basketball program is healthy and extremely successful. But, yes Weber is going to struggle against those schools, cause they are damn good programs.

Why the constant bitching? Yes, the Cats were expected to be a lot better. Yet, they aren't necessarily terrible. The only loss that really pisses me off was to UVU. But tell me the last time Weber won a game in Utah County?? Next, the Lillard never winning a championship isn't coaches fault. Who knew AJ would light up the Cats for 42? And that the team would be decimated by injuries Lillards last two years? Some of you seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. Lillard is amazing and I for one will cherish the memories of him wearing Wildcat purple, but he was only 1 guy.

Lastly, the win at Dayton was huge beating them at their place in front of 10K crazy fans. Hell, anytime the Cats get a win on a DI teams home floor is pretty darn important. The early season losses help the Cas win games on the road in conference.

What Flavor is your purple Kool-Aid?

 

[n.ogdencat]

Tres hasn't been 100% all season. Only against BYU. Also, opposing teams know that Tres is our best scoring option down low, and is constantly double and sometimes triple teaming him. He needs help. Bolomboy is the bigger concern, but I cut him some slack because he is only sophomore. Also, having Hajek out has really hurt us. He is such a physical presence for the Cats. And, I'm thinking we really miss him in practice. he is tough and makes our bigs that much better or more prepared for the games, even if he doesn't see a lot of time. Next Jared Shaw was a major recruit at Oklahoma State before transfering to USU, and UCLA is stacked with NBA calibre players. Beating UCLA on their floor after the beat down the Bruins suffered at the hands ofmDuke a few days earlier really helped inspire the Bruins. Yes, the loss at UVU is mind boggling and regrettably a lot of that is on Big Tres's shoulders he was by far and away the best Big in the stadium and he didn't show up. But neither did the rest of the team really.

 

[n.ogdencat]

Rose and Stew are their respective schools greatest coaches. It is the golden age of basketball at both BYU and USU. Rahe, is one of our best, but he isn't Phil Johnson or Ron Abegglen, but our basketball program is healthy and extremely successful. But, yes Weber is going to struggle against those schools, cause they are damn good programs.

Why the constant bitching? Yes, the Cats were expected to be a lot better. Yet, they aren't necessarily terrible. The only loss that really pisses me off was to UVU. But tell me the last time Weber won a game in Utah County?? Next, the Lillard never winning a championship isn't coaches fault. Who knew AJ would light up the Cats for 42? And that the team would be decimated by injuries Lillards last two years? Some of you seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. Lillard is amazing and I for one will cherish the memories of him wearing Wildcat purple, but he was only 1 guy.

Lastly, the win at Dayton was huge beating them at their place in front of 10K crazy fans. Hell, anytime the Cats get a win on a DI teams home floor is pretty darn important. The early season losses help the Cas win games on the road in conference.

What Flavor is your purple Kool-Aid?

Oh, okay, sorry Webergrad02, that you want Cravens or Denny back.

 

[Webergrad02]

Why was I the target of your come back? Weberski was the one talking about your Kool-Aid.

I am very happy with coach Rahe. Our seniors, not as happy with them. The only way I will take Cravens back is if he will replace annoying timeout guy and do his block charge dance during timeouts and half time.

 

[WeberSki]

Tres hasn't been 100% all season. Only against BYU. Also, opposing teams know that Tres is our best scoring option down low, and is constantly double and sometimes triple teaming him. He needs help. Bolomboy is the bigger concern, but I cut him some slack because he is only sophomore. Also, having Hajek out has really hurt us. He is such a physical presence for the Cats. And, I'm thinking we really miss him in practice. he is tough and makes our bigs that much better or more prepared for the games, even if he doesn't see a lot of time. Next Jared Shaw was a major recruit at Oklahoma State before transfering to USU, and UCLA is stacked with NBA calibre players. Beating UCLA on their floor after the beat down the Bruins suffered at the hands ofmDuke a few days earlier really helped inspire the Bruins. Yes, the loss at UVU is mind boggling and regrettably a lot of that is on Big Tres's shoulders he was by far and away the best Big in the stadium and he didn't show up. But neither did the rest of the team really.

Blueberry, grape, Acai with traces of hibiscus

 

[WSUfan1]

Rose and Stew are their respective schools greatest coaches. It is the golden age of basketball at both BYU and USU. Rahe, is one of our best, but he isn't Phil Johnson or Ron Abegglen, but our basketball program is healthy and extremely successful. But, yes Weber is going to struggle against those schools, cause they are damn good programs.

Why the constant bitching? Yes, the Cats were expected to be a lot better. Yet, they aren't necessarily terrible. The only loss that really pisses me off was to UVU. But tell me the last time Weber won a game in Utah County?? Next, the Lillard never winning a championship isn't coaches fault. Who knew AJ would light up the Cats for 42? And that the team would be decimated by injuries Lillards last two years? Some of you seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. Lillard is amazing and I for one will cherish the memories of him wearing Wildcat purple, but he was only 1 guy.

Lastly, the win at Dayton was huge beating them at their place in front of 10K crazy fans. Hell, anytime the Cats get a win on a DI teams home floor is pretty darn important. The early season losses help the Cas win games on the road in conference.

Rahe is to be blamed 100% for the loss to UM when Johnson went off. Up by 20 at half and managed to lose. He couldn't figure out the full court press and never attempted to double Johnson or anything. He stocked with man-to-man, and that loss is on him.
I am glad Rahe has one signature win in his 8 OOC games. Dayton was nice, but turned out to be an okay win, seeing how Dayton finished the season...

 

[Webergrad02]

What good does it to rehash that disappointment from four years ago? There has been so much good in our program since then. I agree that Dayton and Northern Iowa were great OOC road wins. Oral Roberts wasn't bad either. We are not the team we were last year. But, I believe that we will finish with 5 conference losses this year. That will be good enough for second in the conference. We will go into the Big Sky tourney at 18-10.

The fact is that we are still a good program. The future is still bright. We need to not have such a ridiculous non league schedule next year. Our seniors next year, will be role players. It would be great to have one of these young kids step up as the leader. I too would like to see us bring in a JC kid that can contribute right away.

 

[PURPLEFORLIFE]

Rose and Stew are their respective schools greatest coaches. It is the golden age of basketball at both BYU and USU. Rahe, is one of our best, but he isn't Phil Johnson or Ron Abegglen, but our basketball program is healthy and extremely successful. But, yes Weber is going to struggle against those schools, cause they are damn good programs.

Why the constant bitching? Yes, the Cats were expected to be a lot better. Yet, they aren't necessarily terrible. The only loss that really pisses me off was to UVU. But tell me the last time Weber won a game in Utah County?? Next, the Lillard never winning a championship isn't coaches fault. Who knew AJ would light up the Cats for 42? And that the team would be decimated by injuries Lillards last two years? Some of you seem to forget that basketball is a team sport. Lillard is amazing and I for one will cherish the memories of him wearing Wildcat purple, but he was only 1 guy.

Lastly, the win at Dayton was huge beating them at their place in front of 10K crazy fans. Hell, anytime the Cats get a win on a DI teams home floor is pretty darn important. The early season losses help the Cas win games on the road in conference.

Rahe is to be blamed 100% for the list to UM when Johnson went off. Up by 20 at half and managed to lose. He couldn't figure out the full court press and never attempted to double Johnson or anything. He stocked with man-to-man, and that loss is on him.
I am glad Rahe has one signature win in his 8 OOC games. Dayton was nice, but turned out to be an okay win, seeing how Dayton finished the season...

I don't get you W'SUfan. You want a different basketball coach, while the one we have is successful, but wanted to keep the really bad football coach. Are you sure you are a Weber State fan?

Tal is the eternal sunshine of the board. Mr. Positive!!! I don't even want to post because I'm so disappointed in our team. That offensive display on Sunday was pretty pathetic. So many missed open shots. Tal would probably say it was because UCLA is ranked and Weber was playing at Pauley. They lost because they aren't very good. End of story. I hope we get better, but against the Big Suck how can't we look good?

 

[SWeberCat02]

Rahe's three best ooc wins (by far) all came last season and I think I'm just now realizing how good last season's team really was. They were damn good. But knowing that only makes the fact that they didn't really win anything at all (2nd place counts for nothing) all that more shocking and disappointing, and part of why we are all so pissed that one season later this team has looked terrible.

 

[SWeberCat02]

Btw, where is aj when we need someone to tell us all that we're ungrateful jack wagons?

 

[webercat]

We are probably going to get a 16 seed. Joe Lunardi agrees. Luckily he is picking us to win the conference and go to the tournament. Rahe needs to learn how to double team. Aird and Shaw were absolutely destroying us before either of them got double teamed.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[SWWeatherCat]

I've had the same frustrations with in-state and OOC success (or lack there of) for several seasons but if I post too negatively, it seems other fans get upset and come to the aid of whom/what ever I'm talking "badly" about. I grew up and fell in love with WSU when in-state mattered and was very important to all involved. I, too, feel Rahe discounts the importance of being able to compete in that regard and get his share of wins. How much better might they compete for in-state recruits if Weber wasn't discounted as a lower division team of little significance to the other D1 schools in-state? Oh yeah, I've already forgotten, Rahe has the Texas connection and there's no in-state talent to compete with recruits outside Utah. I don't see it, but that's basically what I was informed on this forum not too long ago.

Probably what's most difficult for me as a fan is listening to Rahe's post in-state interviews. It's always the same: "that's a good team we just played;" "that's a well coached team we just played;" "those are the games that help us get ready for conference;" "we get better playing those types of games;" etc. I want to hear genuine disappointment or even an upset coach whose team just missed an opportunity, and important opportunity. I want to hear the reasons why we lost and believe those things will be improved or fixed before the next game. I want to hear from a coach who believed he could win, not one treating in-state as an exhibition of sorts.

I truly believe Rahe recruits well. I sure think I see terribly talented kids on his teams, plenty talented enough to compete regularly with in-state and OOC. Why can the teams Weber faces be ready to win games before conference but often I hear Weber is getting ready to be competitive in conference by playing those games? Anyway, I keep waiting for Weber to show they've taken another step, especially when a Damian Lillard has rolled through the program or a post-season championship is nearly won, but then it just kinda sounds and looks status quo with regards to in-state and OCC. Frustrating.

... No Randy Rahe is not the second coming of Ron A. or Phil Johnson or Dick Motta, but he's been pretty darn good. Any program in the Big Sky other than Montana certainly would have taken him and his record over the last five years.

Right, he has dominated BSC up until the point that it matters most, but I think think this thread is mostly pointing out in-state and OOC disappointments. Maybe last year's OOC and CIT success was a highlight but you've got to admit it's be a little disappointing with regards to this throughout Rahe's WSU career.

Randy (.654) actually has a better winning % than Ronnie A (.643) at Weber.

How about when it matters most? How does Coach A compare to Rahe with winning in-state & tournaments, heck, throw OOC in there for fun too. I would also argue that Coach A played against a higher strength of BSC too.

OK, before anyone says, "I guess you'd be happier going back to the Farmer & Craven days." No, I wouldn't. Rahe's a good coach but losing the BSC tourney every year and having little success vs in-state and OCC is discouraging when the talent seems capable of better.

 

[SWWeatherCat]

What good does it to rehash that disappointment from four years ago? There has been so much good in our program since then. I agree that Dayton and Northern Iowa were great OOC road wins. Oral Roberts wasn't bad either. We are not the team we were last year. But, I believe that we will finish with 5 conference losses this year. That will be good enough for second in the conference. We will go into the Big Sky tourney at 18-10.

The fact is that we are still a good program. The future is still bright. We need to not have such a ridiculous non league schedule next year. Our seniors next year, will be role players. It would be great to have one of these young kids step up as the leader. I too would like to see us bring in a JC kid that can contribute right away.

I do agree there, at least I sure hope the next several years pan out to be what I hoped to already be seeing this season. Senglin, Gittins, and Hill (from this team) are definitely gonna be fun to watch. I want to include Bolomboy in that group but he has not lived up to this year's expectations, at least so far-- Tres needs help! Joel's young but he was busting with potential as a frosh and I sure thought he was going to exploded this year.

 

[SWWeatherCat]

Btw, where is aj when we need someone to tell us all that we're ungrateful jack wagons?

:nod: :agree:

 

[oldrunner]

A couple of observations from the season so far.

1) We don't lack talent. We do lack toughness. When teams punch us in the face, we have backed off instead of going right back at them. Good teams react, to that, like sharks with blood in the water. That is exactly what happened at UCLA, BYU, CSU, and at home with USU.

2) We seem to have become a team of timid shooters. The only ones playing with any flow, at all, are our two freshmen guards, Senglin and Gittens. Everyone else seems to be waiting for some sort Devine approval before they attempt a shot. That self doubt is carrying over to the free throw line.

3) After seeing, first hand, the student section at UCLA, I am going to give our students a break. Our students have been 20 times better than what I saw there. Go Purple pack!!! :thumb:

 

[Webergrad02]

2) We seem to have become a team of timid shooters. The only ones playing with any flow, at all, are our two freshmen guards, Senglin and Gittens. Everyone else seems to be waiting for some sort Devine approval before they attempt a shot. That self doubt is carrying over to the free throw line.

Lord Byron has never met a 3 pointer he hasn't liked. Don't forget about him. I like Gittens ability to get to the rack. However, I wonder if it adds to our selfish play. JRich jacked up shots early and I think they got after him, because now he is really timid.