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WSU ladyball coach Salary more than 4

Hmm...it's sounding a bit like the egriz.com football forum over here.

A coach making $105,000 vs. $275,000 (Weber's womens vs. mens) is not that big of a difference in my opinion. Head coaches deserve to make decent pay due to the long hours and high expectations put upon them. And if they don't succeed then they won't be head coaches for long.

The following quote bothers me immensely, though.

"The University of Kentucky continues to set the bar high for coaching salaries, giving John Calipari an eight-year deal reportedly worth an average $4,500,000 annually. He'll make more in 10 minutes of game time than the average Kentucky resident makes in a year." (http://basketball.about.com/od/coaches/a/coach-salaries.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

On a local note, ASU's womens coach (Charli Turner-Thorne...who started out at NAU), has been much more successful in Tempe than Herb Sendek has been. She isn't making close to the same money as him but I haven't heard the public outcry.
 
The main point is that salaries are tied to the income for a given sport. NFL coaches are paid more than arena ball coaches, college football coaches make more than college tennis coaches. There is no sexism behind a womens bball coach being paid less than a mens bball coach. I would expect a man coaching the women's team be paid the same as a woman and vice versa. It just happens to be that in the majority of cases, mens sports garner more income, interest and fans & most mens teams are coached by men.

Therefore, given market value for Weber State women's bball and Coach Ord's prior experience, she is extremely overpaid.

:blah: :rant:
 
Oldrunner:) The point being, Once we get back to the dance we're going to need to pay Rahe more. We probably need to be on par with what Northern Iowa did with their 10 yr $425,000 Salary with incremental annual increases to Jacobson.

I look at Ord's salary, & see 40k of annual waste that should be going in a pot for Rahe. You really got side tracked in the other thread, try to focus would ya.......... :coffee: :thumb:
 
bigskychamps07 said:
Therefore, given market value for Weber State women's bball and Coach Ord's prior experience, she is extremely overpaid. :blah: :rant:

You guys clearly have never been through a Title IX audit, have you? Does it occur to you that by paying Randy Rahe 2.5 times more than any other men's basketball coach gets paid in the Big Sky, you're also going to have to pay your women's coach double what any other women's coach gets in the league? If not, you are inviting a Title IX complaint -- and one you will most likely lose.
 
Bengal visitor said:
bigskychamps07 said:
Therefore, given market value for Weber State women's bball and Coach Ord's prior experience, she is extremely overpaid. :blah: :rant:

You guys clearly have never been through a Title IX audit, have you? Does it occur to you that by paying Randy Rahe 2.5 times more than any other men's basketball coach gets paid in the Big Sky, you're also going to have to pay your women's coach double what any other women's coach gets in the league? If not, you are inviting a Title IX complaint -- and one you will most likely lose.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way. Bovee might have been forced to give her a high starting salary.
 
bigskychamps07 said:
Bengal visitor said:
bigskychamps07 said:
Therefore, given market value for Weber State women's bball and Coach Ord's prior experience, she is extremely overpaid. :blah: :rant:

You guys clearly have never been through a Title IX audit, have you? Does it occur to you that by paying Randy Rahe 2.5 times more than any other men's basketball coach gets paid in the Big Sky, you're also going to have to pay your women's coach double what any other women's coach gets in the league? If not, you are inviting a Title IX complaint -- and one you will most likely lose.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way. Bovee might have been forced to give her a high starting salary.

Then she better win...
 
wsucatfan said:
bigskychamps07 said:
Bengal visitor said:
bigskychamps07 said:
Therefore, given market value for Weber State women's bball and Coach Ord's prior experience, she is extremely overpaid. :blah: :rant:

You guys clearly have never been through a Title IX audit, have you? Does it occur to you that by paying Randy Rahe 2.5 times more than any other men's basketball coach gets paid in the Big Sky, you're also going to have to pay your women's coach double what any other women's coach gets in the league? If not, you are inviting a Title IX complaint -- and one you will most likely lose.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about it that way. Bovee might have been forced to give her a high starting salary.

Then she better win...
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
 
bigskychamps07 said:
oldrunner said:
So, you are saying that because she's a she, she shouldn't be allowed to make more than any man, any where? I'm glad that our coaches are percieved to make more than the other coaches in our league. That's the way it should be. We are the best and we should pay the best for the best. I get encouragement from that. I'm not envious of what others make. I'm happy for them.

No, it's called true market value for the position. If women's basketball brought in as much cash or was as successful as the men's programs she would be paid the same. But the fact of the matter is that women's basketball isn't. There is no way to justify a first year women's head coach with no prior NCAA coaching experience to be paid more than long time Big Sky men's basketball coaches.

That's why I'm voting for Mitt Romney, he says he'll make government tied salaries comparable to salaries in the private sector. Government employees shouldn't be allowed to get grossly overpaid on the taxpayers' dime. :rule:

that is good and bad though. i would guess that most government non blue collar jobs pay less than private sector typically. so we might be giving a lot of people raises in that case.

if one needs a reason to consider voting for romney here it is: he has donated over $50,000 to Weber State University. i saw that in the basketball program. :mrgreen:
 
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. Catdbagcat is a true Sod!!

I'm not buying the Title IX argument. I think Ord is getting paid WAY to much.
 
catcat said:
bigskychamps07 said:
oldrunner said:
So, you are saying that because she's a she, she shouldn't be allowed to make more than any man, any where? I'm glad that our coaches are percieved to make more than the other coaches in our league. That's the way it should be. We are the best and we should pay the best for the best. I get encouragement from that. I'm not envious of what others make. I'm happy for them.

No, it's called true market value for the position. If women's basketball brought in as much cash or was as successful as the men's programs she would be paid the same. But the fact of the matter is that women's basketball isn't. There is no way to justify a first year women's head coach with no prior NCAA coaching experience to be paid more than long time Big Sky men's basketball coaches.

That's why I'm voting for Mitt Romney, he says he'll make government tied salaries comparable to salaries in the private sector. Government employees shouldn't be allowed to get grossly overpaid on the taxpayers' dime. :rule:

that is good and bad though. i would guess that most government non blue collar jobs pay less than private sector typically. so we might be giving a lot of people raises in that case.

if one needs a reason to consider voting for romney here it is: he has donated over $50,000 to Weber State University. i saw that in the basketball program. :mrgreen:

Without making this a political platform, your guess would be right if you only factor in annual salary. But in total compensation (retirement, healthcare benefits, unions) government jobs usually pay more.
 
It looks like Carla Taylor made $104,000 last year. How much does that equate for each loss?

She didn't reach the conference tourney her last 4 seasons, and she had the best facilities in the conference. Can't we just get rid of womens hoops & have a womens swim team, or womens water polo team, something in bikini's? A bikini team?
 
Lots of animosity towards womens basketball here. That makes me sad. Say what you want about the lack of high-flying athleticism in the womens game as a whole but the women generally shoot at a higher percentage and can hit their damned free throws....unlike a large number of current collegiate players in the mens game.

A bunch of my former and current students play womens high school hoops. Definitely not as high scoring but I've began to appreciate the effort put forth. They play defense with more intensity than the high school mens games I attend.

A fan is a fan...whether you're in first place or last place. Show up at the womens games like you all do at the mens games and try to simulate the same environment. Part of the solution or part of the problem, Webers.
 
MT Jack said:
Lots of animosity towards womens basketball here. That makes me sad. Say what you want about the lack of high-flying athleticism in the womens game as a whole but the women generally shoot at a higher percentage and can hit their damned free throws....unlike a large number of current collegiate players in the mens game.

A bunch of my former and current students play womens high school hoops. Definitely not as high scoring but I've began to appreciate the effort put forth. They play defense with more intensity than the high school mens games I attend.

A fan is a fan...whether you're in first place or last place. Show up at the womens games like you all do at the mens games and try to simulate the same environment. Part of the solution or part of the problem, Webers.

Mt. Jack...I'm always a fan of your posts, and I definitely respect your opinions. Yes, there is a lot of animosity on here with regard to our women's hoops. I would suspect there is a lot of animosity towards a lot of our womens programs. For a couple of reason. Frankly, and first, they have been terrible lately. Second they take away from the possibility of being able to keep our good coaches for the money/high interest program.

The point of the matter is that Weber doesn't have a lot of money to put into our Men's basketball program. We are extremely proud of our basketball program. We love our coach and want him to stay, but don't have the $$$ to make that happen. From what I can tell, he is currently at the max that Weber can afford. Also, we have had a really hard time keeping good assistant football coaches, who would have made a HUGE difference here at Weber over the past couple of seasons.

If the women's teams were more successful. A lot of fans wouldn't be against Ord's salary (I'm curious about the Volleyball coaches salary Coach/Dr. Peterson; does he make as much as Ord?) if she had already proven her worth and also, if the team were more successful than what it has been. The ladies hoops, as has been pointed out previously, has the best facilities for basketball in the Sky, yet annually underachieve. To me, I feel that Ord needs to earn her salary. CT, former women's coach, made 104K, but had been here for almost 20 years, had two conference championships under her belt, and a bunch of winning seasons. Rahe, on the other hand, has earned most of his salary. Unfortuantely, for Weber to be able to keep a proven winner, they have to keep giving him more. Yes, he has a contract till 2019, but he can leave at anytime for a bigger institution. For Wildcat fans, its a matter of putting the money available where it will do the most good. Our Men's Basketball is what Weber is known for, it is what pays the bills, it is what puts Weber on the map. I'm not against Women's sports and I try to support them when I can. However, in the overall truth of the matter, it isn't the athletes or coaches we dislike, its the matter of dollars and cents available for the various programs that puts us on edge.
 
On a side note...for our friends up in Poky (title IX, loooool). At USU Stew Morril makes 407K + benefits = around 500K annually. Their women's coach J Reagan Pebley makes about 83K. Kinda a disparity between the two don't ya think. I'm pretty sure that is the same from school to school. http://utahsright.com/h_salaries.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Before he was let go, Al Givens was making 67K. Has nothing to do with Title IX. I think Bovee got hood winked.
 
talhadfoursteals said:
On a side note...for our friends up in Poky (title IX, loooool). At USU Stew Morril makes 407K + benefits = around 500K annually. Their women's coach J Reagan Pebley makes about 83K. Kinda a disparity between the two don't ya think. I'm pretty sure that is the same from school to school. (Catdcat was the one who found the numbers).

Before he was let go, Al Givens was making 67K. Has nothing to do with Title IX. I think Bovee got hood winked.

You need to do a little more research Tal. There is a whole history of litigation (and out of court settlements) involving women's coaches who took action against schools because they were paid disproportionately. Keep in mind, there are a whole set of guidelines that go with Title IX, Title VII and the Equal Pay Act. They include breadth and depth of responsibilities, experience, demonstrated performance, and revenue generation. In the case of USU, for example, it would be very easy for me to make the case that Stu deserves five times more money than the women's coach because he's been coaching for 30 years, has won a dozen or so conference championships, his program brings in 20 times more revenue, etc.

In Weber's case, you could probably easily defend giving the mens' coach 2.5 times more than the women's coach because he has a few more years experience as a head coach, he's demonstrated performance, and his revenue stream is much higher than the women's program. Now, could you make the case that instead of giving the women's coach $105 K, she should only get $85K? Maybe so, but perhaps Boevee doesn't think quibbling over $20 K and tempting fait is worth it?

There's another factor to keep in mind when you're looking at your women's coaches salary -- it's a negotiated item. Weber obviously wanted this young woman and felt very strongly that she was the best candidate for the job. She is coming from a very high profile program at Louisville that probably pays their women's head coach three or four times what she is getting at Weber. Boevee offers her $90 K and she says, "Hey, that's less than the woman you just fired? You obviously think I'm a better coach than she is, other wise why would you fire her and offer me the job? I want at least a thousand dollars more than she was making." How can you logically argue that point?

Could you have gotten another coach for cheaper? Probably, but if you're convinced this woman was the best candidate and that she's going to do a better job than the coach you just fired so you could hire her, why wouldn't you pay her more than the other coach was getting?

Finally, on thetopic of women's sports in general: I can't speak to Weber State's budget situation, but if it's similar to just about everybody elses in the Big Sky (besides Montana and Montana State), I would say your problem is not paying a women's basketball coach $105 K a year -- it's subsidizing a football program that loses big dollars every year. Nearly every football program in the Big Sky (again, with the excepton of the two Montanas, who fill their football stadiums every game and generate independent television revenue) are subsidizing their football programs with either state money, student fees, or both. I would be willing to bet Weber is no different.

So it's not the pittance you are spending on women's athletics that's draining money from your ability to pay Randy Rahe more money -- it's your football program. Oh, and if you think having an extra $30 K or so around will make a difference to Rahe when/if a BCS level program comes calling, you are kidding yourselves. You'd have to double Rahe's $275 K salary to even be in the same league as those guys, and the biggest factor is not going to be pay anyway -- it's competitiveness. Any coach worth his salt wants to test himself in the best programs, and against the best competition. No Big Sky school can stack up when the big boys come calling.

PS--I just looked up Weber's athletic department budgeting data on the U.S. Dept. of Education web site and it shows the Weber football team spent about $40 K more than it brought in during the most recently reported year. It also shows over $2 M in "unallocated expenses" for the entire athletic department. Those are costs that are not assigned to any one sport, but are shared by all the athletic department. It is safe to assume that football "owns" a good proportion of those costs.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Index.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
pattenjr said:
Hey, for as lame as this thread is, that was pretty interesting information

I was goading him into putting some facts behind his statements. And in the end, he admitted that there wouldn't be title IX issue at Weber. However, visitor, no disrespect, I liked your information and your other reasons for paying more $$$ made a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
 
talhadfoursteals said:
pattenjr said:
Hey, for as lame as this thread is, that was pretty interesting information

I was goading him into putting some facts behind his statements. And in the end, he admitted that there wouldn't be title IX issue at Weber. However, visitor, no disrespect, I liked your information and your other reasons for paying more $$$ made a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to post it.

I wouldn't say there would be no Title IX issue at Weber -- I would say determining exactly where the "tipping point" is that would trigger a Title IX complaint is open to debate. Again, you're paying Rahe double what most Big Sky schools are paying their men's coaches. You have to expect to pay your women's coach more, as well.
 

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