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Your thoughts on next year?

J

jas

Active member
After today, I can't decide between two much different thoughts about the Viks:

1) A lot of freshman from the much heralded recruiting class got to play and get experience this year. Burton is a heck of a recruiter, and there seems to be a positive culture. A lot of key contributors are going to be back and, like the tv guy said today, they have the ability to really surprise people next season like Northern Arizona did this year.... :thumb:

Or

2) Record wise, they really aren't much better than they were under JG. In three years under Glanville, they won 7 Big Sky games. In three years under Burton, they have won 8. The momentum of one of the country's biggest turn around seasons seems to have left with Kavanaugh, McCaffrey, Shead, Rau, Waldron, etc. And, after next Saturday, they will no longer have Monahan, Jackson, Sluss, Brown, Lewis, etc. :thumbdown:

What are your thoughts on the Viks next year?
 
Probably not much better than this year. Like you said, a lot of our catalysts from last year are going to be gone, and many of our newer guys really haven't stepped up this season to show me that they'll be able to replace those guys outright next season. I'd say we can probably expect 4-7 next season as they adjust to losing all of the talented seniors, and while we try to patch the secondary together with younger guys and give them time to develop.
 
I don't know if you guys understand football. I think next year the team will be expolosive. if you watched practice in the fall and/or the games you'd come to the conclusion that we didn't lose more skilled players this year what we lost in McCafferty was an emotional leader.

This year we had NO-ONE in the senior class step up and become a leader. We had some seniors that played good football at times. This was a team decimated with injuries from fall ball and through the entire season. In the first four games we averaged 4.2 TD passes against us and then we made a couple changes at one corner and both safties changed and we averaged 1.4 TD passes against us per game. Both safties, one corner, a middle linebacker and a lineman were all injured and not playing yesterday and we were right back to 4 TD passes against us on only 17 pass plays.

What that tells me is if we stay healthy and get some good back ups ready we can have a steller defense. With the kids like Zach Whelen and Daniel Halverson playing full time at LB we will be able to cover those passes between 4 - 10 yards and the passes in the flats. This years LB's could step into holes and stop runs but simply didn't have the speed or read the plays quick enough to get it done and put an extrodinary amount of pressure on our secondary to cover the entire field from 5 to 50 yards which is nuts.

Paris Penn has been in the wings and is very similiar if not better to Cavanaugh. Perhaps this years experiment will not continue at QB and KM will play one of the LB slots next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team Gels better next year with the exit of the last of the Glanville recruits in one more week and the Burton recruits taking over. The class that just won 34 games for Montana State turned that program around a year at a time and I believe the class we recruited last year will be the class that turns our program around.

It's funny that I'm watching people turn their backs on the best recruiting class PSU has had in 10 years before they even have a chance to all play together in a single game. Give the boys a chance. they all came from winning programs and they don't have to take Yoga classes to get an A in a classroom.

Next year is where you will see the fruits of Burtons labors.

That is my take on our situation. Get behind this team and great things will happen. they haven't even stepped on the field yet for the most part and I'm sure the can't wait for next year to roll around.
 
Thanks for your input. Just to clarify, I never played the game, I really am curious as to the thoughts of other more informed people on the board.

But, as far as us turning on the team, that wasn't the intent of my post. I haven't missed seeing a single snap from a home game in seven years, and don't plan on doing so for as long as I can. I want them to win, but am just wondering if other people think it's going to happen next year. All I can do is see the talented, hard-working Viks on the field on game days, and worry that a good amount of them are going to be gone next year. I don't follow high school football or get to see the Viks practice, so at this point I only get to see them on Saturdays.

I trust that there are great young players waiting to play in the future, but they have had great players/leaders come through the program in the recent past, Andy Schantz, Hubel, Senn, Kavanaugh, the list could go on and on and on, but those teams could never quite put it all together at once. I'm just wondering if other fans are confident that they will put it all together on Saturdays next year, or will it take longer?

Either way, hopefully they can send the seniors out with a victory against Eastern.
 
I thought that they displayed a lot of character in the second half yesterday, continuing to fight and score in a disappointing and adverse situation. Thought that Ramirez showed that he deserves a shot at some more time. All those playing strong in that difficult situation will be the core that turns us around next year. I am optimistic and still think a big victory against Eastern is possible.
 
I wouldn't say that people are turning on the team, or Burton's recruiting class for that matter. I, for one, would still be trying to follow spring practice, fall practice, and every game of the season, regardless if we're 0-11 or 11-0. That being said, it's hard not to get frustrated as the losses mount and we continue to not be a factor in the Big Sky.

With regards to next season, it'll be interesting to watch as the spring approaches.

First off, we need a defensive coordinator in place. The sooner the better.

Next we're going to need a couple of juco transfers or drop downs. 26 seniors is a lot to graduate. Do we have recruited talent waiting? Yes, but you can't expect that to replace all that we're losing. We usually seem to pick up someone like a Marquis Jackson or a Myles Wade, so hopefully we can find someone for the d line since we're losing Jackson and Jester.

Lastly, Burton needs another stellar local recruiting class. The McDonaghs, Rothsteins, and Walens will build grassroots support, show other kids that you can come in here and contribute right away, and build that pipeline of local talent to the park blocks.

Regarding the quarterback situation this year... I know Penn looked good in fall camp and should look to have pretty high potential, but McDonagh coming in as a true freshman, ripping the starting job, and having our offense up near the top of the conference has been nothing short of amazing. Hopefully there will be an objective competition like there was this past fall camp where the guy that puts the team in the best position to succeed gets the job. Or maybe we can have a triple headed monster at quarterback consisting of McDonagh, Penn, and the Tomcat where defenses never know what they'll see and we just run over the conference.

Heh, I was frustrated at the beginning of my post, but now I have us leading the conference in offense with a three QB system. I should keep writing for another 20 minutes or so, as I'd probably have us going deep in the playoffs next year. :thumb:
 
jas said:
After today, I can't decide between two much different thoughts about the Viks:

1) A lot of freshman from the much heralded recruiting class got to play and get experience this year. Burton is a heck of a recruiter, and there seems to be a positive culture. A lot of key contributors are going to be back and, like the tv guy said today, they have the ability to really surprise people next season like Northern Arizona did this year.... :thumb:

Or

2) Record wise, they really aren't much better than they were under JG. In three years under Glanville, they won 7 Big Sky games. In three years under Burton, they have won 8. The momentum of one of the country's biggest turn around seasons seems to have left with Kavanaugh, McCaffrey, Shead, Rau, Waldron, etc. And, after next Saturday, they will no longer have Monahan, Jackson, Sluss, Brown, Lewis, etc. :thumbdown:

What are your thoughts on the Viks next year?
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No one can be blamed for being frustrated. The team underperformed. Win-Loss record is the bottom line and we haven't made any improvement under Burton. I think this program could go either way at this point depending on the next two recruiting classes. And recruiting only gets a program so far. Burton needs some help coaching.

I can't think of any coaches that go 2-9, 7-4 and then drop to 3-8 that are ultimately successful. Montana State went 6-5, 7-4 and 7-4 in Coach Ash's first 3 years. Maybe someone can show another example of a team regressing so much in the 3rd year that succeeded?
 
I think one of the biggest problems going into this year was no emotional leadership on either offense or defense. Each side of the ball needs their leaders. Last season I think it was pretty obvious that there were some guys that really stepped up to fill those important roles. I never got the feeling this year that there was one guy that could pull the others aside and get things turned around.

The offense should be fine. We have enough key players returning that there shouldn't be a step back.

We will need to try and replace some key players up front, and at linebacker. Sluss may be the most difficult player to lose to graduation on the field. We are graduating a bunch of DB's, but as hard as the current guys have worked on every play, I just don't think we could get much worse in this department. Frankly, I blame as much of this on the coaching as I do the actual players. Burton better be spending as much time recruiting a coach as players in this regard.

It seems like the last two games we kind of took a step back and that is a little concerning. If KM was hurt coach should have pulled the trigger earlier and given one of the other QB's a shot.

Either way, I don't think that anyone that takes the time to post here is giving up on anything. I think maybe we all started the season with our rose colored glasses on, We didn't realize just how young we were going to be at some key positions.
 
That's just a ridiculous post. Kincy played over injuries and had the same ups and downs that our other DBs did. We were thin there and needed every person game to play at that position and #4 made the call many times. Too bad we lost Sisler at safety and other injuries back there, including last week in Bozeman. Godinet played a whale of a game when he was forced into a starting role against the Huskies (check his tackles for that game). Others stepped up, Kincy among them. Could we use more talent there? Yes. But slamming the people who played is wrong.
 
Hear, hear, PJ.. Broadway's style belongs over on eGriz. As far as I can see, the team has been playing its guts out. I have no idea how many injuries we've had, but it sounds like quite a few. Put on top of that a tough road schedule this year (cf. Cal Poly) and we've done reasonably well. But I do hope Burton finds a DC. Firing in mid-season is bound to have an effect. Go Viks!
 
And Nigel obviously can't be HC and DC at the same time; it just doesn't work that way. Especially when our defense keeps changing personnel with injuries, etc.

Hopefully our newer guys can use this year as experience and go into next year a little more prepared.
 
DustRunner said:
And Nigel obviously can't be HC and DC at the same time; it just doesn't work that way. Especially when our defense keeps changing personnel with injuries, etc.
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Yeah, it's been a big fat deja vu with regards to our head coach assuming the DC responsibility as well.
 
I agree with the post about the lack of senior leadership this year. It's one thing to get beat or even blown out by a team you are supposed to lose to (MSU, Wash), but we lost 3 games to teams we should have beaten (ND, SoU, NoCol). That's the only difference between a winning season and this one. I never saw any drive to win in the players (like never putting away No Col or So Utah) and I saw a couple of times the whole team just deflated when something bad happened. Winners don't react that way. They put people away. They beat teams they are more talented than. They don't roll over under adversity. There's a lack of focus out there that may be due to inexperience,but something has to be done about it. Hopefully some of the new guys who are used to winning will bring in some of the confidence that this team never seemed to get this year.

Expect to win, prepare to win, play to win, WIN.
 
pjstano said:
That's just a ridiculous post. Kincy played over injuries and had the same ups and downs that our other DBs did. We were thin there and needed every person game to play at that position and #4 made the call many times. Too bad we lost Sisler at safety and other injuries back there, including last week in Bozeman. Godinet played a whale of a game when he was forced into a starting role against the Huskies (check his tackles for that game). Others stepped up, Kincy among them. Could we use more talent there? Yes. But slamming the people who played is wrong.
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+1. Please stay classy.
 
Guychamp said:
I agree with the post about the lack of senior leadership this year. It's one thing to get beat or even blown out by a team you are supposed to lose to (MSU, Wash), but we lost 3 games to teams we should have beaten (ND, SoU, NoCol). That's the only difference between a winning season and this one. I never saw any drive to win in the players (like never putting away No Col or So Utah) and I saw a couple of times the whole team just deflated when something bad happened. Winners don't react that way. They put people away. They beat teams they are more talented than. They don't roll over under adversity. There's a lack of focus out there that may be due to inexperience,but something has to be done about it. Hopefully some of the new guys who are used to winning will bring in some of the confidence that this team never seemed to get this year.

Expect to win, prepare to win, play to win, WIN.
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We can keep blaming the players but the coaching staff is responsible for attitude, fortitude and focus. The buck stops with them. If they can't instill a winning edge, they need to move on.
 
I see that Penn received the scout team player of the year.

http://www.goviks.com/news/2012/11/18/FB_1118124504.aspx#.UKl0WzpQiCY.facebook" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This should be a great competition at qb come spring camp.
 
My take on our situation is that a lot of the younger guys are actually glad to see most of the seniors leave the program. There never seemed to be a close bond on this team and that stems from upperclassmen. In team sports there needs to be a chemistry form and it needs to start from the top. This is truly one of those rare situatiuons where graduating 25 seniors might be a very good thing.

A linebackers role is two fold and our couldn't drop back into pass coverage quick enough. I think we saw a bit of the future with Zach playing the entire game aginst EWU. he led the team in tackles, got back into pass coverage and recovered a fumble. Daniel halverson is not only a beast but is fast and he will cover the middle in passing situations.

I think we will see penalties decline and we will be a more even team on defense with the new quicker linebackers.

The offense was prolific accept when it mattered most. Final drives stalled consistantly while the opponents final drives always seemed to put a nail in our coffin. Every time the defense made a stand in the closing minutes of close games the offense didn't get it done.

i think many of the 2011 class will be starting next year and if you truly look at where they come from they don't consider losing an option. They had to be sickened by the lack of senior leadership, the lack of bonding and the attitude of "me" first team second shown by many of the older palyers.

This is it. this is now 100% Burtons team and he will now be able to lead kids that want to be led. i wont be surprised if we are 9 and 2 and fighting for the title next year.

This is our moment and we wont be saying wait until next year anymore.
 
goviksgo said:
My take on our situation is that a lot of the younger guys are actually glad to see most of the seniors leave the program. There never seemed to be a close bond on this team and that stems from upperclassmen. In team sports there needs to be a chemistry form and it needs to start from the top. This is truly one of those rare situatiuons where graduating 25 seniors might be a very good thing.
Click to expand...

It is encouraging that DJ Adams seems to be willing to be a leader, based on him winning the "Most Inspirational" from team mates. I hope the coaches encourage him to step up.
 
I am not sure which PSU games GoViksGo was watching cause I am trying to remember a “stand” made by our defense that had us in position to win games and the offense didn’t get it done. The offense put us up in at least three conference games –big leads a couple times -- and the defense couldn’t stop a high school quarterback. The offense was one of the top in the Big Sky with a true freshman running it!! In the end, he had about 50 yards less in total offense than Kavanaugh did as a senior!!! And in doing it with more passing, involving more players in the offense.

Paris Penn couldn’t win the job in the fall and Scout Team Player of the Year is a nice award, means he worked hard all season even though he wasn’t playing in games. But, McDonagh won the job in the fall against the same defense with Penn getting more reps than he did initially. Good numbers on scout team against our defense doesn’t mean a thing---virtually every quarterback in the conference put up numbers passing against our defense. How can you say Paris is maybe better than Kavanaugh? He hasn’t even played in a college game yet.

As for it being an experiment if it was then it was successful. The offense averaged more points per game than than last years team. (and yes you can say oh they scored 77 against Idaho State but don’t matter last year’s team played some bad teams too and this years team played the UW) Curious as to what part of it was an experiment? Also, why would a QB who won the job and set the freshman passing record (despite 16 clear drops—most of which were downfield) while rushing for over 400 yards have to compete against the same QB he already beat out for the job??? Marty had it right, It was amazing what Kieran accomplished as a true freshman, although Marty, just curious why you too think should be an “open competition” between Kieran and Paris, Colin was the number 2 all year...

This year’s VIKs should have been in the playoffs and they weren’t for one reason, pass defense!! Until there is a change in the way our DB’s play teams will take advantage of them just like Eastern Washington did. It was clear they watched film and figured out the DB’s never turn around. Their QB’s just threw it up knowing our DB’s would not turn and their receivers found the ball and went to it while our guys were still running down the field. It wasn’t the first time.

As for the All conference awards --- the VIKS should have had two or three Offensive Line guys on the All Conference first and second teams!!! Only four (five?) sacks all year, AND over 2,300 yards rushing!! No respect cause didn’t get the wins we should have. I think Sluss should have made first team as well. Kind of ridiculous to see so many Montana guys on the conference teams, just because they are from Montana.

Plenty of football players on this roster. Hopefully they can solidify the defense have a good recruiting year and put it all together next year.
 
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