stingthemgood
Active member
And the best TD celebration in school history
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2024 Outlook
- Thread starter SDHornet
- Start date
Cam's development at ASU has taken his play to another level and it has been both entertaining and should be treated as a proud moment for Hornet fans. It also helped that ASU actually had a quarterback this season compared to last season.
That said, I stand by my comments from...checks notes...14 months ago. There was not a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '23 Marcus Fulcher. There is a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '24 Cam Skateboo. Credit to Cam and his support system for getting him to the level we are currently seeing and I hope he can perform at the next level as well.
sacstateman
Active member
Looks like you may have changed your mind about Skat's impact....Welcome back to the real world....Even though I agree with SD 95% of the time, he is wrong on this one and looks like he won't admit it....That's his opinion and he's free to have it as I am free to think his opinion stinks.....
sacstateman
Active member
'22 season= Skattebo....1382 yds....196 carries....7 ypc....31 catches....371 yds...11.7 ypc
'23 season=Fulcher.........590 yds......121 carries....5 ypc....18 catches....171 yds...9.5 ypc
and those numbers are suppose to reflect "not a lot of drop off"
'24 season=Skattebo....1421yds....247 carries....5.7 ypc....35 catches....468yds...14.6ypc
and these numbers are suppose to reflect "a lot of drop off" from '22 stats
I don't know about you but I just must be blind to the facts SD...You can stand by your notes....I'll stand by the facts.....
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
No, no change of opinion. And I’m still in the real world.
Yes, Skat is a helluva player and the best Sac State has had in a long long while if not ever.
But, no, the drop off from 12-1 to where they are now is not solely due to him leaving the program. It’s the shake up in coaching, along with player attrition (especially on defense) as a result.
If Taylor hadn’t left, this program would still be a contender in the BSC, even if not producing 12-1 records most seasons. They certainly wouldn’t have gone 3-9 this season.
Again, football is the ultimate team sport. No one player has that large of an impact, especially a non-QB. But a collection of players and their leader head coach does have a large impact.
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sacstateman
Active member
I don't think I ever said Skat was the sole reason for the decline but let's look at it another way...Do you think the Hornets would have had a better record if Skat had stayed? I believe you will say the record would have been better than 8-5 and 4-4 BSC...I believe the record could have been MUCH better with Skat, how much would be a guess but I'll stick it out there 11-2 and 6-2...We would have beaten USD in second round with Skat...we passed for more than they did and we only ran for 148 vs their 194....Oh well, split milk....I'm done proving my point....I rest my case
HornetHope
Active member
For those that believe the Offense is the problem, the NCAA shows the offenses ended the season ranked #31. But the “Defense is not the problem”? Yea, ranked 101, giving up almost video game level numbers. Which side of the ball needs fixing?
BuckeyeHornetFan
Active member
Of course they would have been better. An NFL caliber talent on anyone’s collegiate roster would make them better. And even if one doesn’t subscribe to Cam Skattebo being an NFL caliber talent, he has certainly proven himself as a top shelf FBS P5 talent at the very least.
So, yes, having FCS defenses trying to tackle that guy all game would be a huge benefit, along with Tau-Tolliver filling in here and there. We already saw it first hand in 2022.
But Skattebo wouldn’t have solved any of the Hornets defensive problems. Nor would he have solved their coaching and play calling issues. He’s just one player. And even the Hornets line underperformed as the season went along, making running the ball and pass protecting more difficult.
I can see Cam Skattebo’s physical running and pass receiving making a difference in a few of the Hornets losses — but 11-2? I’m not buying into that.
I can realistically buy into 7-5 and 5-3 with wins over EWU, IDST, Poly and UCD. 3 of those losses were by 3 points and the other was 7. Having Skat may have made up those small differences. Or it could have led to depending upon one player far too much making them worse on that side of the ball or even to eventual injury. We’ll never know.
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stingthemgood
Active member
No one here ever said we weren’t moving the ball offensively. But you can cherry pick any stat. The one I’ll ask you to defend is that we were tied for 69th in red zone efficiency. We were awful. And that’s where a lot of the concern on this board was.
And no one is arguing it that defense isn’t a problem.
THE PROBLEM WAS BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL
So I think we should fire the offensive coordinator. Is your response we should fire the defensive coordinator? Oh wait…
Mic Drop
sacstateman
Active member
Sorry, I forgot to specify that my 11-2 prediction was for '23, not '24...my bad (original debate was about minimal drop off after Skat left)
HornetHope
Active member
My point was and is this: many people on this board were screaming for BF to get the ax, but being circumspect, there is one area that clearly needs improvment which is the red zone.
On defense the only area where we are in the top third is sacks and TFL. Outside of 3rd down, 4th down defense which is in the middle of the pack, but as whole both rushing and passing defense are voting present. That is where I want to see changes. Clearly I am not the “football guru” like yourself, but I have enough sense to figure out our whole focus should be improving the defense first. Fix red zone offense? Cut the super duper razzle dazzle trickeration nonsense.
You're moving the goal posts to a Cam is better than Fulch argument and that was never the discussion. Of course Cam is better. Yes Cam was great here, Fulch was a stud who came through when needed in '23. His game winning catch and run against Stanford is an iconic moment. He had clutch carries that secured our road playoff win at UND. Both the '22 and '23 season ended with a playoff win. Folks were dooming that all was lost given what left after the '22 season and that was proven false because we had dudes on the roster like Fulch.
sacstateman
Active member
Here is a quote from your post SD....
"That said, I stand by my comments from...checks notes...14 months ago. There was not a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '23 Marcus Fulcher. There is a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '24 Cam Skateboo. Credit to Cam and his support system for getting him to the level we are currently seeing and I hope he can perform at the next level as well."
That is what I'm talking about....I'm not in any way "moving the goal posts" but I am using stats to prove how far off your comments are....The argument is about how much losing Skat affected the drop off in records from 12-1 to 8-6 ....When you're wrong, admit it....don't try to deflect the subject.....Tell me again, with stats, how there was "not a lot of drop off from '22 Skat to '23 Fulch"...Fulch made a great play in the Stanford game and several other good catchs but does that negate all the great plays Skat had in '22? ....please show me....and your statement of there "being a lot of drop off from '22 Skat to '24 Skat" is absolutely hilarious, after all, Skat is in the '24 Heisman conversation, just a slight bit above being '22 BSC player of the year. I can't for the life of me understand what you are seeing. (or not seeing or not admitting) And, I hope you saw the ISU vs ASU game this morning.....Draw your own conclusions as to how that game would have gone without Skat...
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oldrunner
Active member
Let's face it, a player like Cam is a rarity. Any school at our level that gets a player like that is once in a generation lucky. He is a sensational talent. I was glad to have seen him in the BSC. I wish him nothing but the best. He may well go down as the best player to have ever played at Sac.
The problem with your argument is that you are framing it as if Cam was the entirety of the '22 offense. In the rushing game, Cam accounted for 43.4% of the rushing yards and 19% of the rushing TDs. In the passing game, Cam accounted for 11% of the receiving yards and about 10% of the TDs. He touched the ball on 227 of 1,018 offensive snaps (22%). This isn't to diminish what Cam meant to the offense, he was an impact player, but the revisionist history that Cam was the entirety of the Hornet offense isn't accurate.
What made '22 so special, besides the undefeated regular season, 3rd straight BSC title and 1st D1 playoff win, was that it was a group of talented players with excellent coaching, that each did their part to get this program to the next level. It wasn't just one player carrying the team every week; one week it was Cam, then the next was Asher, or Martin, or Gipson, or Dunniway, or Pierre...the list of playmakers coming through that season in clutch situations is endless. So losing one player to the portal wasn't the end all be all that the doomers and haters heading into '23 thought it would be, and I rightfully predicted that we would maintain our competitive pedigree as proven by an encore of postseason success with all those playmakers no longer on the roster.
I stand by my position, and that isn't meant to diminish Cam's abilities. Yes I caught the first half of the ASU game and it has no relevance to this discussion as Cam isn't the same person/player as he was now compared to then (he got touches on over 55% of ASU's offensive snaps this season). He's a much better player in a system that is centered on his involvement and the fact that Cam is in the Heisman discussion proves he made the right decision to move on to a bigger profile program. I'm glad Cam is succeeding as it is a positive reflection of the program he came from. I hope he sees success on Sunday's as well.
sacstateman
Active member
I am NOT framing it that way, I am pointing out the differences between Skat and Fulch when YOU don't see much of a drop off in the '23 season from the '22 season....This not revisionist history, it is actual statistical evidence...If you don't understqnd that having Skat in the backfield opens up the offense for everyone else, I overestimated you....Skats presence forces the defense to account for him first and everything else is second priority....Actually Skat's presence probably elevated everyone else's stats in'22, no, it DID elevate everyone else's stats....This all started when I sided with Green Laser when he implied that losing Skat had a LITTLE to do with the drop off (post #41), then YOU (post #44) said that if that were true then '23 season would't have been a success...Right there YOU changed the goal post from having a drop off to being successful....Then in post #48, I quote the stats between Skat and Fulch to show the drop off...Then, post #50, YOU imply that someone was trying to say we should have gone undefeated every year and compared them to an ejizz retard and say I pinned all the difference on the loss of Skat (would love to see where I did that) and go on to say there was not a massive drop off in talent from Skat to Fulch (Fulch was damned good, Skat was out of his league, sorry, just the facts).....Then post #82 (the most hilarious of your posts I have ever seen you post) you state the following "That said, I stand by my comments from...checks notes...14 months ago. There was not a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '23 Marcus Fulcher. There is a lot of drop off from '22 Cam Skateboo to '24 Cam Skateboo" and I simply, in post #84 lay down the relevant stats for both players....post #86 I state that I NEVER said Skat was the sole reason for the drop off.....In post #92 you accuse me of moving the goal posts...then post #95, you say "The problem with your argument is that you are framing it as if Cam was the entirety of the '22 offense. In the rushing game, Cam accounted for 43.4% of the rushing yards and 19% of the rushing TDs. In the passing game, Cam accounted for 11% of the receiving yards and about 10% of the TDs. He touched the ball on 227 of 1,018 offensive snaps (22%). This isn't to diminish what Cam meant to the offense, he was an impact player, but the revisionist history that Cam was the entirety of the Hornet offense isn't accurate." I'm still waiting for some proof that I said Cam was the entirety of the '22 offense....I didn't but it could be said that the '22 offense would not have been nearly as good without him....Defenses had to scheme to stop him every play he was on the field which opens up everyone else to make plays. That is NOT revisionist history, that is a FACT. One more FACT, there was a DROP OFF in offense from '22 to '23. I agree with Green Laser that "The loss of Cameron Skattebo might have had a little to do with it." There you have it, full circle. Started with that quote and I just can't for the life of me understand how you can disagree with that simple 14 word statement from Green Laser.
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FootballAlum84
Active member
Ouch… I mean at least they made the playoffs this year but even in the rain the Hornet faithful hasn’t let us down that heavy in a playoff game.
HornetFootballFan
Active member
To be a contender for an FCS championship. You believe a #31 Ranked offense is satisfactory?
If we had a #31 Defense we might be approx 31st in FCS. No Playoffs. Pure mediocrity. NO that’s not good enough.
We need this in the FCS level.
Top 10 Offense
Top 10 Defense
Top 10 Special Teams
Bobby Fresques with a fake account? Just in case it’s you?
You’re a great guy. #31 is not elite in FCS and it’s probably #100 in FBS ranking if we got elevated with you as our OC. We’d be a bottom dweller again.
It’s too bad you didn’t remember the TT playbook and just keep running it. Too bad you weren't absorbing the experience and building your skills while he was on staff.
I’m bummed it didn’t work out. Our program has fallen hard. It hurts and I want our program to thrive. I thought you were going to keep us rolling. Bummer that you didn’t. It’s not personal. Just isn’t a good fit for your skills. You should be a QB Coach.
Fair points and I agree that a player as good as Cam has that kind of an impact. We had a lot of well proven guys in the lineup that Cam got more reps with in the '22 season. There were a lot of folks dooming over the changes that happened after '22 that I felt were over the top and to see us follow up with another playoff win spoke to the strength of this program (at the time). There's no doubt this would have been a better team with Cam in the lineup, nobody is arguing that.
HornetHope
Active member
Swing and a miss, strike 1. My point went past you like a 98 mph fastball right down the middle.
