up for the challenge
Active member
I say YES as Kramer recruited and signed every player on this team other than walk ons not on scholarship.
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Is Kramer responsible for player performance?
- Thread starter up for the challenge
- Start date
I'm not sure exactly the point you are trying to make in this post or many other posts. If you are saying (implying) that Kramer is a bad coach and should be fired, that's fine.
My questions to you then would be:
1. Who pays off the remainder of his contract.
2. Provide a list of some names of individuals you think are better and who would realistically consider the ISU job.
Like I've said in the past, I have no issue with anyone saying Mike needs to be replaced...fair enough but when someone says that I always feel its on them to suggest possible alternatives. Not saying they would be considered or hired but it would show some thought to the process over and above simply saying (implying), "the guy sucks...fire him."
And I'd agree to a certain extent that coaches can impact a players performance based on where they are played position-wise and how they are used. But coaches can't get out there and actually play the game...they can't run, tackle, throw the football. The majority of a players performance depends on the player him or herself and of course the health factor of said individual.
PBP
My questions to you then would be:
1. Who pays off the remainder of his contract.
2. Provide a list of some names of individuals you think are better and who would realistically consider the ISU job.
Like I've said in the past, I have no issue with anyone saying Mike needs to be replaced...fair enough but when someone says that I always feel its on them to suggest possible alternatives. Not saying they would be considered or hired but it would show some thought to the process over and above simply saying (implying), "the guy sucks...fire him."
And I'd agree to a certain extent that coaches can impact a players performance based on where they are played position-wise and how they are used. But coaches can't get out there and actually play the game...they can't run, tackle, throw the football. The majority of a players performance depends on the player him or herself and of course the health factor of said individual.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
I want to be clear that this topic has nothing to do with firing a coach as that is not mentioned or implied in the topic. I like Kramer as a football coach as he does not like losing.
PBP - for example... do you feel the players "performed well" in the Portland State game? Most posters and the media felt we got ran over in that game. Is Kramer responsible for his players performance or not in that game? It sounded like Kramer took some responsibility for his players performance during the post game show but he also seemed to be frustrated toward some of his his players performance.
By the way, when are you or others going to post a football topic that is about the team? Only a few post football topics here. I want to read yours and other posters topics.
PBP - for example... do you feel the players "performed well" in the Portland State game? Most posters and the media felt we got ran over in that game. Is Kramer responsible for his players performance or not in that game? It sounded like Kramer took some responsibility for his players performance during the post game show but he also seemed to be frustrated toward some of his his players performance.
By the way, when are you or others going to post a football topic that is about the team? Only a few post football topics here. I want to read yours and other posters topics.
up for the challenge said:
If you listened to the broadcast from Portland you heard me say a few times about how ISU was getting run over by the Vikings. I also said (and repeated to Mike on the coaches show last night) that it looked to me like the defense was 'slow' for some reason.
Of course they didn't perform well...the scoreboard says all that needs to be said on that subject...there was no need to beat it into the ground...it was pretty apparent they didn't play well at all and with a beat up offensive line and the overall injuries starting to pile up who knows what will happen in the future.
Also in the course of doing my work I come across things that aren't for public consumption at least by me on a message board, that information will come out when the powers that be feel it is appropriate and to be released by the appropriate person / department. Not my place to be posting that type of stuff, like injuries, on a message board unless someone in authority has already made that info public in another area / venue (like the weekly press conferences or the coaches radio show)
Not sure what you mean by starting football topics, I generally will start a thread if I feel strongly about something or if I come across something that may be of interest to the board as a whole. Generally other fans have already started threads on the topics of interest and there is no need to repeat what has already been done. (Not to hit this to hard but for example there were at least two threads started about the Michael Dean not getting the ball enough situation...) Why just repeat what has already been done? I'll comment on threads but only start a topic if someone hasn't already touched on it or if I come across something different.
PBP
Reborn2010
Active member
I don't believe that the coaches are responsible for players' performances. Each and every player is responsible for how well or how poorly they play. Each person is responsible for being prepared and motivated. Every day.
However, it IS the coaches responsibility for how well or poorly THE TEAM plays. The coach is responsible for making changes when changes are needed. The coaches MUST evaluate each players' performance and give them an honest grade. I know one thing. I saw a few players miss takles all over the field. It was the worst game I've ever seen, in terms of how poorly players tackled. To me our defensive backs and even line backers looked pretty pathetic. And yes it is the coaches who have brought these kids to ISU.
I am new here, and I am aware that the Bengals have been pretty bad the last few years (accept for 2014). I was expecting to see a better team this year, and especially a better defense. I also thought the Bengals were going to run the ball a lot more. It has not turned out that way SO FAR. There are plenty enough games left fo these guys to turn it around. I know that for me that game against Portland was just so pathetic. I know if I were a coach there would be some changes made. I agree, along with many of you, that Michael Dean should be playing A LOT more. And I mean a lot more. This makes me wonder what other freshmen are not playing because they are freshmen? Just because a player is a Junior or Sophomore or even a senior shouldn't suggest that they are better than freshmen just because of age. If a Sophomore or Junior or Senior can not tackle, I wonder why they're out there on thge field playing. Yes....The Bengals got run all over by Portland State. They beat us worse than both Oregon State and Colorado did. Where is the pride? Where is the team? I am really looking forward to the nexgt game......
However, it IS the coaches responsibility for how well or poorly THE TEAM plays. The coach is responsible for making changes when changes are needed. The coaches MUST evaluate each players' performance and give them an honest grade. I know one thing. I saw a few players miss takles all over the field. It was the worst game I've ever seen, in terms of how poorly players tackled. To me our defensive backs and even line backers looked pretty pathetic. And yes it is the coaches who have brought these kids to ISU.
I am new here, and I am aware that the Bengals have been pretty bad the last few years (accept for 2014). I was expecting to see a better team this year, and especially a better defense. I also thought the Bengals were going to run the ball a lot more. It has not turned out that way SO FAR. There are plenty enough games left fo these guys to turn it around. I know that for me that game against Portland was just so pathetic. I know if I were a coach there would be some changes made. I agree, along with many of you, that Michael Dean should be playing A LOT more. And I mean a lot more. This makes me wonder what other freshmen are not playing because they are freshmen? Just because a player is a Junior or Sophomore or even a senior shouldn't suggest that they are better than freshmen just because of age. If a Sophomore or Junior or Senior can not tackle, I wonder why they're out there on thge field playing. Yes....The Bengals got run all over by Portland State. They beat us worse than both Oregon State and Colorado did. Where is the pride? Where is the team? I am really looking forward to the nexgt game......
up for the challenge
Active member
It was obvious that Kramer did not have his team ready on defense when playing against a wishbone type or option type of offense. So, is Kramer responsible for his player performance? Absolutely, as Kramer admitted after the game his defense was taught incorrectly for that type of offense which means the players performance was impacted as the players were not coached correctly going into this game.
up for the challenge said:
OK then...so now what since blame has been assigned? I guess I simply don't understand the point unless there is a means to an end somewhere down the line or conclusion that hasn't been broached yet.
I've been around Mike now for six years and I know that like any good coach he'll take the heat and take the blame publicly. That's part of his job, but just because he says something for public consumption doesn't automatically mean in reality he and he alone messed up.
It's like a few weeks ago when Tanner made all those turnovers, he took the blame like a good teammate should but then after the fact I was told by one of the other players that on at least one turnover, the wide receiver ran the wrong route.
My point is that what is said publicly does not automatically mean it is gospel.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
spartan said:
That is a bunch of baloney
up for the challenge
Active member
PBP said:
Bottom line PBP is Portland State prepared for this game and we did not. They had a game plan and we did not. Read the article by the Journal by Franco the good and bad. That is spot on in my opinion.
[Bottom line PBP is Portland State prepared for this game and we did not. They had a game plan and we did not. Read the article by the Journal by Franco the good and bad. That is spot on in my opinion.[/quote]
That's great and understandable... Kyle is very sharp and I've always felt he was very good in covering football. I'm wondering what your point is though...there has to be a reason behind this thread as well as others that you have posted that are critical of specific things and you have had a number of them including for one example two on the Michael Dean situation.
Let me be clear I have no problem with that...I'm simply saying that to me there's an underlining theme to all of these and I'm simply trying to find out what it is you are trying to say.
I think the team felt they were prepared for Portland State...it didn't turn out that way. It isn't the first time in the last 25 years or so and it probably won't be the last time they lay an egg despite thinking they were ready to go.
Just for the record and to "officially" record my opinion in case there is a movement starting for significant changes by some and I've said this before, Mike Kramer, is ISU's best chance to turn things into a consistent competitive standpoint in football. As Brad has pointed out, given the challenges of trying to win at ISU as well as the higher academic standards it is a very difficult situation. A "savior" isn't going to come walking through those doors. Chris Peterson isn't leaving Washington, Bill Parcells, a master at rebuilding programs is retired. ISU had a guy who was a three time (now four time) Big Sky Coach of the Year fall into their laps. I simply don't see how they are going to do better. That doesn't mean by the way that Mike is above being watched and his decisions and tendencies analyzed and debated...but to think that he can be or should be replaced...well given the circumstances that will not be easily done.
I'm not accusing anybody of saying this directly...I'm just getting a strong feeling from reading a lot of things on the boards that possibility is being considered by some (many?)
Feel free to carry on though as you are certainly entitled to discuss and debate things. Remember the schedule is not getting any easier...not by a longshot. I said this back in August to some, ISU may be a better team, a MUCH better team than last season but because of the schedule and injuries the win total simply may not show it.
We'll see how it plays out.
PBP
That's great and understandable... Kyle is very sharp and I've always felt he was very good in covering football. I'm wondering what your point is though...there has to be a reason behind this thread as well as others that you have posted that are critical of specific things and you have had a number of them including for one example two on the Michael Dean situation.
Let me be clear I have no problem with that...I'm simply saying that to me there's an underlining theme to all of these and I'm simply trying to find out what it is you are trying to say.
I think the team felt they were prepared for Portland State...it didn't turn out that way. It isn't the first time in the last 25 years or so and it probably won't be the last time they lay an egg despite thinking they were ready to go.
Just for the record and to "officially" record my opinion in case there is a movement starting for significant changes by some and I've said this before, Mike Kramer, is ISU's best chance to turn things into a consistent competitive standpoint in football. As Brad has pointed out, given the challenges of trying to win at ISU as well as the higher academic standards it is a very difficult situation. A "savior" isn't going to come walking through those doors. Chris Peterson isn't leaving Washington, Bill Parcells, a master at rebuilding programs is retired. ISU had a guy who was a three time (now four time) Big Sky Coach of the Year fall into their laps. I simply don't see how they are going to do better. That doesn't mean by the way that Mike is above being watched and his decisions and tendencies analyzed and debated...but to think that he can be or should be replaced...well given the circumstances that will not be easily done.
I'm not accusing anybody of saying this directly...I'm just getting a strong feeling from reading a lot of things on the boards that possibility is being considered by some (many?)
Feel free to carry on though as you are certainly entitled to discuss and debate things. Remember the schedule is not getting any easier...not by a longshot. I said this back in August to some, ISU may be a better team, a MUCH better team than last season but because of the schedule and injuries the win total simply may not show it.
We'll see how it plays out.
PBP
PBP said:
That's great and understandable... Kyle is very sharp and I've always felt he was very good in covering football. I'm wondering what your point is though...there has to be a reason behind this thread as well as others that you have posted that are critical of specific things and you have had a number of them including for one example two on the Michael Dean situation.
Let me be clear I have no problem with that...I'm simply saying that to me there's an underlining theme to all of these and I'm simply trying to find out what it is you are trying to say.
I think the team felt they were prepared for Portland State...it didn't turn out that way. It isn't the first time in the last 25 years or so and it probably won't be the last time they lay an egg despite thinking they were ready to go.
Just for the record and to "officially" record my opinion in case there is a movement starting for significant changes by some and I've said this before, Mike Kramer, is ISU's best chance to turn things into a consistent competitive standpoint in football. As Brad has pointed out, given the challenges of trying to win at ISU as well as the higher academic standards it is a very difficult situation. A "savior" isn't going to come walking through those doors. Chad Peterson isn't leaving Washington, Bill Parcells, a master at rebuilding programs is retired. ISU had a guy who was a three time (now four time) Big Sky Coach of the Year fall into their laps. I simply don't see how they are going to do better. That doesn't mean by the way that Mike is above being watched and his decisions and tendencies analyzed and debated...but to think that he can be or should be replaced...well given the circumstances that will not be easily done.
I'm not accusing anybody of saying this directly...I'm just getting a strong feeling from reading a lot of things on the boards that possibility is being considered by some (many?)
Feel free to carry on though as you are certainly entitled to discuss and debate things. Remember the schedule is not getting any easier...not by a longshot. I said this back in August to some, ISU may be a better team, a MUCH better team than last season but because of the schedule and injuries the win total simply may not show it.
We'll see how it plays out.
PBP[/quote]
GREAT post PBP. I ABSOLUTELY WANT MIKE KRAMER AND ALL STAFF MEMBERS TO STAY IN PLACE FOR THE REST OF 2016 AND 2017 SEASONS AND BEYOND. Yes I know FOR A FACT FROM FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE the team busted there butts in the week preparing for Portland State and the ISU coaching staff MADE IT REAL CLEAR TO THE PLAYERS how big this game was and how they better be ready!!! The coaching staff took the Portland State game VERY SERIOUSLY and they prepared VERY SERIOUSLY and the PLAYERS KNEW IT!!!
I will say this about "Up For the challenge" = I DO NOT AGREE WITH MOST THINGS HE SAYS (I REALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH HIS STANCE ON COACH KRAMER TOWARDS MICHAEL DEAN, I THINK THAT IS A NON ISSUE AND I WISH HE WOULD DROP IT), I actually even a few weeks ago was curious why he even was a "fan" because he is ALWAYS NEGATIVE. I actually noticed something oddly peculiar a few days ago, I noticed UPFT actually made a somewhat supportive comment about the program when he said "there is a lot of football left and the season isn't over" ( or something to that effect). I was shocked. It actually made me happy to see him comment that. So it made me settle to the fact he is a true fan who just has frustrations and that is REALLY JUST FINE. On the POSITIVE SIDE for UPFT = he is probably the MAIN PERSON THAT KEEPS THIS MESSAGE BOARD ACTIVE with his posts and I APPRECIATE THAT
up for the challenge
Active member
PBP: I got the impression from Kramer that he did not care for your comment about his defense being a step too slow in the Portland game on the coaches show as he cut you off immediately and explained another reason why his defense did not play well. I believe he may have felt you were being critical of his defense not having the same speed or better speed to the Portland offense. Like you, posters say things but that does not mean they do not support the program.
up for the challenge said:
Up:
I never said you don't support the program... just commenting on what I see in the threads that you start and wondering if there is a pattern or purpose to them.
Regarding my question to Mike, I took no offense from his reply and remember it is part of my job. A few years ago when I commented on the situation where the No. Dakota announcer got suspended by his school for a comment he made after a tough loss, it is a fine line that I'm walking along with Jerry and Brad.
The school pays me, they have a right to expect certain things...I also have an obligation to the listening audience and I do the best I can to balance both of them.
Not easy I assure you.
PBP
up for the challenge
Active member
PBP said:
PBP:
You do not need to wonder if there is a purpose or a pattern to my comments regarding a topic as I say what I think. If posters disagree or feel I am being critical so be it. Many fans are critical of their team but they maybe the best fans. I assure you that I like Mike Kramer as a coach and want to see him to do well. Now, if he was not so stubborn in his ways he might be able to win more games.
up for the challenge
Active member
spartan said:
Go pound sand spartan, letuknow, or any other alias names you use.