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ISU vs CWU thread

Sure, ISU needs a shake-up at the coordinator position, but how will this be accomplished? What family man will come to ISU with a coach on the hot seat, surely this resulted in the off season changes we saw this past year. The only significant improvement was Cullen at D-Line, a single man with nothing to lose.

IMO, Tingey needs to come out in support of Z now... or soon. Let the fans and players know you stand behind your man. I didn't like the way the O'Brien situation was handled.... he accomplished enough at ISU to warrant an extension. Much more than Z has accomplished, much more.

Now is the time to make my apologies to Lorig and Barnum, they are both much better coaches than I thought.
 
The question is will Jeff step up to the plate or the microphone before its to late? Have to wonder or will he sit in his office and wait for it to blow over. Only time will tell. :roll:
 
I am not suggesting that Coach Z be fired or retained. Plenty of coaches have left this program and found success elsewhere. I am simply trying to ask a question about what it will take to turn this ship around. One more coach is not enough. Keep asking this question. Why do we have the history we have? Then ask, where do we go from here?
 
No winning tradition, poor facilities, no money and no fan support.

I suppose ISU extends the contract of Coach Zamberlin and allows the excuses and lack of production and accountability to continue.

At least then, history has been changed. For better or worse.
 
bengalcub said:
The Rome wasn't built in a day BS...it' lame.

You realize that Rome was nothing more than a simple farming village of a few huts and fields on the hillsides to begin with, right? And that the Latins were culturally and economically dominated for awhile by the Samnites, Estruscans, and various Greek/Italian colonies?

Just a point. It really did take Rome several hundred years, 7 kings and two types of governments before it even coalsced into the Roman Republic.

Britain was a resource-poor island nation that struggled for centuries to maintain her independence until she started to play her cards right. The end result: becoming the greatest empire known to man.

Germany was nothing more than a collection of literally hundreds of dukedoms, fiefs, city states and principalities well into the 1830's after France, Russia and Britain as well as other nations had been unified for centuries. Fate finally played her role and they were eventually led by one of the world's greatest leaders and strong men in Otto von Bismarck. Germany, led by the Prussian state and Bismarck's vision, became the ultimate power on the European continent that surpassed even Britain in industrial production; her army was the most well-trained and the General Staff second to none in terms of tactical and military expertise.

Japan was also resource poor and looked down upon as a second rate power even after bringing herself 300 years ahead in just 50. They had vision, devotion and an unswavering patriotism in making their nation a world class country. And an incredible upset with the Battle of Tsushima which marked Japan as a world power.

Now you're all probably wondering what this has to do with being beaten soundly by a school that's like half our size. My answer: everything!

Idaho State is in the same boat as many of these nations before their ascendence to world power and influence. Like Germany pre-Bismarck, we're fractured into many tiny pieces that makes it hard to have any sort of vision (even though Germany had a vague idea of what they wanted to be). Like Japan, we're resource poor and 20 years behind other schools in facilities and support. Not to mention that until we get our Tsushima, we're nothing but a 3rd rate school. Like Britain, we're struggling against the seemingly invulnerable powers of Montana and Montana State (like Britain vs Imperial Spain and France).

We need to take these to heart. We need a strongman with vision like Bismarck, we must have our unswavering devotion to the cause like Japan. Like France, we need to have a nasty purge and top-down reformation (interpret that purge however you'd like). Having major victories like Tsushima and our own Captain James Drake splitting the Spanish Armada are a must. We've already had our crushing defeats not unlike the Prussians had against Napoleon at Auerstadt (the crushing blow the French inflicted destroyed the army of Frederick the Great and led to major reforms of the army that 50 years later would entail the rise of the most powerful army on Continential Europe), now Idaho State must turn those defeats into reform.

Summing it up again, ISU needs-

-A strongman with some iron will
-A vision of what we want in the big picture
-Serious reforms (playcalling, philosophies, attitude...)
-Scoring a few upsets here and there once we have a cohesive unit of coaches and players
-We already have the defeats and flaming destruction, now we need to turn that into something good.

It won't be easy but hell, being a fan here is never easy. It's daunting and we may very well go down in a flaming, crashing doom. But we're at a very crucial crossroads in ISU football history. We live or die right now.

To Arms!
 
bengalcub said:
No winning tradition, poor facilities, no money and no fan support."

If you work that equation backwards, the problem is on the way to being solved. If you had fan support, then there would be increased income in ticket sales and concessions, maybe other donations and purchases of licensed merchandise. Thus, there would be money. If there were more money, the facilities could be improved. According to many arguments made by other posters on here, the better facilities would result in better athletes being recruited to Pocatello. Should that occur, the logic is that we'd then have better teams and coaches and we'd see results on the field with wins. With wins, we'd then obviously have a winning tradition developing.
After all that rambling, the big question to me is still what the HELL is being done to achieve step #1 to develop fan support by marketing ISU football and athletics to people in Southeastern Idaho?! What efforts are being made to actually go out and get people interested? Where are the ads or contacts from the alumni association? What about the coaches or players talking to people in the community at local clubs and organizations or other personal appearances? These are just examples of things that could be done or improved. As far as I can see, the ball is being dropped somewhere along the line well before the players ever fumble it on the field!
 
The way I see it, in order to get quality recruits you better have 1) a winning program, or 2) really nice facilities. Right now ISU has neither of those. We lose games, we have off the field issues, and we sure as hell dont have the facilities to compete with the rest of the Big Sky. Look at our practice field for example...its not even a flat field!! There are little hills in the middle of the field! And I think were the last program in the country that still plays our games on Astro Turf...not to mention our training room facility...it's about the size of an average master bedroom with old furnature. The weightroom is average at best. So I hope the new lockerroom can make up for the lack of practice field, training room, and playing surface. If you saw that ISU was dominated by D2 Central Washington...would you want to come play at ISU?
 
Everyone loves a winner and winning cures almost anything.

The fans are not going to come out and support a team that does not put W's in the win column. The facility question at ISU will not be answered by the fans in Southeast Idaho. Those things will come from big dollar donations and those things happen with wins.

Remember, everyone said that O'Brien could not do it for ISU basketball because of the same reasons. However, all he has done is come in and produce three teams that have finished in the top four in the BSC despite these arguments.

People make reference to standing by the team and that 'real fans' hang in there and find a way to make a positive contribution. I am guilty of that myself and I am guilty of always making excuses for Idaho State University. I am done doing it, absolutely done.

ISU will have these same challenges now and for the immediate future. The only answer is to create a product on the field and can overcome all the diversity and put W's in the win column. It is not easy and it is not fair, but that is the ONLY answer.
 
"..what the HELL is being done to achieve step #1 to develop fan support by marketing ISU football and athletics to people in Southeastern Idaho?! What efforts are being made to actually go out and get people interested? Where are the ads or contacts from the alumni association? What about the coaches or players talking to people in the community at local clubs and organizations or other personal appearances? These are just examples of things that could be done or improved..."
-notabengalalum

what if..now follow me on this..what if, as a program, we decided that we no matter what at LEAST three kids from each recruiting class will be from either century, pocatello, or highland (i say more like six)? my guess is that if this approach were taken (and expanded upon), it wouldnt take long for our ISU games to start looking like the turnouts of the local high school games (attendance is much more respectable at a poky v highland game). people of this town dont hate football, they hate watching ISU football disgrace pocatello, and furthermore they've become disenchanted with all these out-of-state riff-raff trouble makers who aren't doing any better of a job than our local boys could be doing. what i'm saying is if we're going to be loosing why not give these scholarships to individuals who are more vested in the traditions of this city and could at least draw a larger fan base due to followings from the high school arena.

hey coaches, invest in this city if you want it to invest in you.
 
There were a lot of people here that complained that Dr. Bowen was the problem behind the lack of our success in athletics, but now that we have a very pro-athletics President, we still have many of the same problems. My only concern is that after three years we don't have near the talent level that most of Larry Lewis' and Brian McNeely's teams had. And I'm sure the staff knows the kind of athletes that we need to be competitive. I know that our funding was drastically cut by the state, but then again many other league teams like EWU and NAU had their funding cut, and they were still able to field very competitive teams this year. I don't know how EWU does it, but they have very little in the way of money and facilities, but they still regularly field very good teams. After yesterday's embarrassment, I'm sure that guys like Dr. Vailas and Jeff Tingey are concerned about the direction of this program and are asking a lot of questions right now. I'm thinking that right now Jeff probably has an idea as to whether or not he wants to keep Zamberlin after this season, although he won't announce it publicly until after the last game of the year.
 
tigersmilk said:
what if..now follow me on this..what if, as a program, we decided that we no matter what at LEAST three kids from each recruiting class will be from either century, pocatello, or highland (i say more like six)? my guess is that if this approach were taken (and expanded upon), it wouldnt take long for our ISU games to start looking like the turnouts of the local high school games (attendance is much more respectable at a poky v highland game). people of this town dont hate football, they hate watching ISU football disgrace pocatello, and furthermore they've become disenchanted with all these out-of-state riff-raff trouble makers who aren't doing any better of a job than our local boys could be doing. what i'm saying is if we're going to be loosing why not give these scholarships to individuals who are more vested in the traditions of this city and could at least draw a larger fan base due to followings from the high school arena.

hey coaches, invest in this city if you want it to invest in you.

Bullshit.

This team has more Idahoans on it than any team in recent memory. Yesterday's attendance was one of the worst I've seen in years. It didn't even top 5,000 "officialy," and I'd venture to guess that "actual" attendance was far less than what was reported. Reported attendance for the Southern Oregon game (2 years ago) was over 6,000.

My advice for Coach Zamberlin (or any other coach who leads ISU) is to build a clean, honest, and successful program YOUR way, and quit listening to anybody else outside of the program as to WHO you need on it in order to be successful in the community's eyes.

Winnings draws fans. Period.
 
so your advice is to build a clean, honest and successful program? ..how? any boob can say winning wins fans, how do you get to winning? and how can we get fans till this winning sets in? cuz empty seats for 3-4 more years shouldn't be in the game plan
 
Well certainly by not buying into "local kids" save ISU deal. We need great players wherever we can get them.

Guys, don't buy into tigersmilk. People like him are anathema to what I have in mind for this place. They will never be satisfied until Highland and Pocatello's teams make up 95% of the rosters.

Besides, the fault lies with everyone involved with ISU. The coaches, players, athletic department, the fans, Southeast Idaho...

We all have a part to play. This is why I compared us to pre-Bismarckian Germany. We're so fractured and engaged in pissing contests that we can't possibly hope to build a football power.
 
for the record Montana has run the tables in the big sky for a while now, this year they'll be doing it with 48 Montana natives. we have 20 kids from Idaho on the roster this year, with only four from the local area (two of those were recruited by Lewis, Knickrehm and Rutten). you can tell me the genetic pool is that much better in Montana or that the pool is any larger than Idaho's. with Boise State moving into the upper echelons of bcs teams (thus picking up more out of state talent) idaho has become ripe with barrel-bottom-BSU-type kids who would thrive in the bigsky.
 
boisebengal said:
There were a lot of people here that complained that Dr. Bowen was the problem behind the lack of our success in athletics, but now that we have a very pro-athletics President, we still have many of the same problems. My only concern is that after three years we don't have near the talent level that most of Larry Lewis' and Brian McNeely's teams had. And I'm sure the staff knows the kind of athletes that we need to be competitive. I know that our funding was drastically cut by the state, but then again many other league teams like EWU and NAU had their funding cut, and they were still able to field very competitive teams this year. I don't know how EWU does it, but they have very little in the way of money and facilities, but they still regularly field very good teams. After yesterday's embarrassment, I'm sure that guys like Dr. Vailas and Jeff Tingey are concerned about the direction of this program and are asking a lot of questions right now. I'm thinking that right now Jeff probably has an idea as to whether or not he wants to keep Zamberlin after this season, although he won't announce it publicly until after the last game of the year.

I'll tell you why EWU keeps getting good players, because they get all the kids that cant quite make it into UW and WSU..and Washington High School football is at a whole other level than Idaho High School football. And the fact that Washington is a lot more populated than Idaho.
 
The ISU coaches have been to several high school games this year. The night before the Weber game ISU had coaches at Preston and Firth. The coaches are trying to bring in more "local" kids, just look at the success of their summer camps. We just need to give it time to develop.
 
Poor me poor me

I have to practice on a unleveled field with grass, bad training faculties, out dated weight room. MMMM

Lets see So what if the grass isn't level you still have a grass field to practice on, beats dirt. The training room is small yea okay, the weight area now I think they go to the clinic next door to lift weights and that not to bad. The responsibility falls squarely on the backs of the players, are they good enough to play college football. Quit making excuses for them poor this poor that this is bullsh#t. It's time for them to step up to the plate. Okay if the coaches call the wrong play, will it happen time after time? Does the coach throw an interception, fumble the ball, miss a block, Nope!!! You want something you have to work for it. In the Journal, Kyle Blum says " We've just got to work out butts off and we have to start winning. We can't keep losing. Its frustrating." We hell, may he should say I need to find a way to quit throwing interception. "We" hell the defense played a good game but they can't score touchdowns.
We as fans have a right to demand a good team, "We" pay for tickets, " We" pay for parking, "We" will support the team if they can show that they actually are trying to be the best they can be.!!!!
 

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