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ISU vs WSU

I believe 1984 was the last ISU win in Ogden...if that streak were EVER going to end...this would be the year. From my view down here, ISU is the better team. In the three games they were clearly the better team, they won. In the other 8, they lost, but in a nice change...they competed. Sure, Eastern took it to them a little bit, but they were still not blown out.

Folks have to remember Mike Kramer's first year at Montana State they went 0-11 (0-12 if you count him breaking my copier, which he apologized for at Big Sky meetings for years afterwards). As an alum, I'm perfectly fine with the progress being made there...offense comes along faster than defense (see UNM 2013 for proof) ... but his defense is making some strides.

Let's win this one...it would truly be a win for the fan base...seriously...four wins and a rivalry game win? That works right now, doesn't it?

FormerISUSID
 
Defensively, I've seen the Bengals fracture like they did last year, but only in select games. Last year we gave up an average of over 50-points a game...much better this year, and the defense has occasionally shown the ability to make big stops at crucial times. There's much more stability on the D-Line. Tyler Kuter has made his presence known, and Austin Graves is like a Tasmanian Devil finding the guy with the ball. Sage Warner has also been solid. Although the LB corp isn't as solid and experienced as it was during AJ Storm's last year, Mitch and PJ and crew have been very active. Injuries and dings at LB have cost us a lot of player-games. The fact that the defensive front group has put more pressure on opposing QBs this year hasn't left our DBs as exposed to the passing game. And in his first year as a starter, Cody Sorensen's genes are showing as he's second only to Beckstead in tackles. Our D has 8 picks this season (3 last week vs. the great :whistle: Taysom Hill) compared to 7 total last year. Mitch's 3 picks this season lead the team and uncloak his football intelligence.

Offensively, we've been inconsistent, but when we're good, we're pretty good. Most of the credit goes to a re-invigorated OL, led by two little guys, Skyler Phillips and Terrance Carey, who are starters as a true frosh and RS-Sophomore. Jim Bagley's only fault is his weight (275). True Fr. Tommy Vazorka (6-6, 315) also has great potential, and it's too bad he's been banged up the last 3 or 4 games. Chris Deihm at C has really settled things down with the shotgun snap, making it so Arias doesn't have to pray that each snap will be in his vicinity. Our running game is really coming along. Last year we gained a total of 511 yards rushing in 11 games. After 11 games this year we're at 999 yards net, averaging 91 yards a game...far better than the meek 54 ypg last season (see OL). Finney totaled 288 yards last year, this season he's got 765. Vast improvement. A little more consistency and we'll have a thousand-yard-per-season rusher.

Our punting game this year hasn't been stellar, but it has been sufficient. CJ Reyes is just plain solid, no matter what we ask him to do. And you also can't say enough about Brendon Garcia's 18 of 24 FGAs this season. He's now tied with Perry Larson for most FG's in a career by a Bengal. Win!

ISU is now up to #10 out of 13 teams in the Big Sky in the Sagrin computer ratings (#83 in FCS and #206 in all of D-I). North Dakota, No. Colorado and Weber all trail us, in that order.

When the season started, most of us thought 3 wins would be expected to show improvement. We thought 4 wins would be a bonus, and 5 would be a dream-come-true. With a real shot at a 4th win this weekend, which would end an eternities-long road losing streak and mark the first win at Weber since 1984 (my second year of calling ISU games), I can't imagine any TRUE BENGAL FAN could be disappointed if they truly know the game of football. This year we were in our games against UC-Davis (on the road), North Dakota, NAU (on the road), SUU (on the road) and Portland State. We SHOULD have won North Dakota, SUU and Portland State. The closest loss we had last year was by 7 to UC-Davis here. Every other loss was a blowout.

Are we improved and getting better? I say yes. And the best way to really carry that momentum forward is to win this Saturday at Weber. It will probably take our best effort of the year, but if we get it, look out.

The best line of the season by an opposing coach came two weeks ago from Portland State head coach Nigel Burton. He said when Jeff Tingey hired Mike Kramer, all the other coaches in the league thought "Oh Crap!".

GO BENGALS !
 
It is all about the win - loss record in the Big Sky. Who cares about statistic improvement over the 2011 & 2012 teams. I would have taken the 2011 team to win against the 2012 & 2013 teams and I believe the 2012 & 2013 teams would have played to a tie. To say the Bengals have improved because of statistic improvement is not necessarily true. To say that the Bengals have improved based on a win-loss record in the Big Sky is true.
 
Regarding team improvement in 2013:

I do not know how ISU could be currently #10 in front of North Dakota as North Dakota beat ISU at Holt Arena this season and has 2 wins compared to ISU 1 win in the Big Sky. In the Big Sky, ISU is currently #11 in front of Weber State and Northern Colorado. A loss to Weber State would put ISU at #12 with Northern Colorado taking the cellar at #13. The Bengals can do no better than 11th place and no worse than 12th place in the Big Sky.

Nobody can count the two division II wins against Dixie State ( 4 - 6 ) and Western State Colorado ( 2 - 8 ) as those two games were expected wins in non-conference games. It is no different than the expected losses against Washington and BYU. Throw out those games as they do not mean much other than scrimmage games.

The 2011 team won 1 game in the Big Sky and the 2012 team won zero games in the Big Sky. To say the 2013 team has improved over the 2011 and 2012 teams with only 1 win going into the Weber State game is controversial as the 2013 team only won against NCU at Holt Arena who is currently in the cellar with Weber State. So, where is the improvement by beating Weber State who has not won a single game thus far in the Big Sky this season? The 2011 team and the 2012 team played tougher schedules in the Big Sky so I do not think anybody can use statistics for saying the 2013 team is statistically more improved as they did not play Cal Poly, Montana State, Montana, and Sacramento State this season.

I do not believe the 2013 team has improved over the 2011 team and the 2012 team as statistics do not mean much as schedules, players, and teams change every year. As I mentioned in my previous post I think the 2011 team would have won against the 2013 team and I think the 2012 team would have played to a tie with the 2013 team. What counts is wins in the Big Sky against competitive teams. When the Bengals start to win games in the Big Sky against competitive teams than I will believe the program is on the rise. I suggest Coach Kramer actively start recruiting from competitive JC programs that have winning traditions and sign some of these players for the 2014 season if he wants to win in the Big Sky next season. Why do you think Northern Arizona has improved over the last two seasons? NAU signed players from competitive high school programs and signed JC players from competitive programs that played at competitive high school programs.

Good Luck Bengals and thank-you seniors for your effort and dedication to the program.
 
Sometimes you crack me up, UFTC.

I didn't make the computer rankings, they're done mathematically by a computer ranking a team's performances throughout the season, also measured against the strengths and weaknesses of its opponents. I don't make the computer's rankings...I just quoted them. The computer is only saying that ISU gets a higher ranking now than it did at the start of the season, compared to all of the other teams.

We've given up over 200 fewer points this year than we did last year in the same number of games. I have to laugh if you claim we haven't gotten better. You've got your opinion, I've got mine. Time will tell who's right.
 
votb,

I also laughed when you said to "look out" if we beat Weber State. I know you were joking about that one as the Wildcats have not won any games in the Big Sky this season. It will be a battle for 11th place.

Yes, the team has shown improvement throughout the season and are playing competitive football but no one will be able to convince me that the 2013 team is any better than the 2011 and 2012 teams as their win - loss records in the Big Sky are similar.
 
biobengal said:
Weber sucks.... :thumb:

Bout time ISU beat these guys in Ogden... now's the time.
Click to expand...
Yes WSU does indeed suck this year, BUT even in our horrid years we still find a way to beat the mighty ISU Bengals. Hopefully this year will be NO different.
Any of you guys coming down to this game? If so safe travels and.....GO WILDCATS!!!!
 
Up:

Sometimes (many times) teams improve overall without automatically improving the won-loss record the same season. Sometimes the won-loss record is the last thing to improve and that takes place in the following season or two.

Also factoring in are the schedules...next year's might be easier or harder for ISU depending on who plays, location, weather ect.

Won-loss is not and can not be the only metric used to determine if a team has improved or not. There are numerous computer rankings and the old fashioned "eye-test" that tells you ISU is much better than in the previous two years...it's even shown up a little this year in the won-loss column. The fact that you don't count two wins against lower division opponents is your choice but the record and the NCAA certainly counts them.

I think they can (and will) beat Weber State, that would give them four wins, two in conference...would you then agree that shows improvement? Just wondering.

PBP
 
I don't know about statistics but I do know what I see on the field.

I watched all of the 2012 home games and the road games that were on TV. I've watched all of the 2013 home games and the road games that were on TV, and without a doubt, in my opinion, the 2013 Bengal football team is better than 2012 football team. I see more size, speed, physicality, and intelligence on the field this year than last. Yeah, I have been disappointed that they did not win some of the games that I think they should have this year - but last year there were NO games that they should have won that they didn't. Yes, they need to learn how to win - but the product on the field is definitely better this year than last.

This year you expect the offense to produce, last year it felt like a fluke when they scored. This year the defense can get big stops, last year you felt lucky if the defense got off the field without giving up a score.

Do the statistics prove they're better??? - maybe, maybe not. But my eyes don't lie!
 
I forgot who said this, but it seems appropriate about our rivalry with Weber: "A rivalry isn't a rivalry unless you win once in a while." I've seen enough losses to Weber in both football and basketball over the years to say, "Enough". It seems like we haven't won in Forever against these guys. It's time to win. This is the team to do it and Saturday is the date. Go Bengals!
 
PBP:

Like I mentioned, I believe the 2011 team would have beaten the 2013 team and I believe the 2012 team and the 2013 team would have played to a tie. If anything, the 2011 team and the 2012 team would have been better teams if Kramer would have recruited and signed JUCO players with high GPA's and would have obtained step down players with high GPA's rather than giving walk-on players with high GPA's scholarships to correct the APR problem. That was just a quick fix for him and both the 2011 and 2012 teams had to pay the price for his decision. That was a decision he made and that is why you see all three teams at the bottom of the Big Sky standings for the last 3 seasons. So, no improvement during the last 3 seasons until his future teams starts to win games in the Big Sky against competitive teams in the Big Sky. I do not think NCU or Weber State are competitive teams as both have zero wins in the Big Sky and ISU only win in the Big Sky was against NCU at Holt Arena. Playing Weber State and getting a possible win does not say much regarding overall team improvement and certainly does not mean that his future teams are on the rise. Coach Kramer really needs to connect with high powered JUCO programs in hotbeds like Southern California, Northern California, and the Phoenix areas that could be a funnel toward the ISU program. I am tired of hearing about the past APR problems as an excuse for not winning games and tired of hearing that his team will win when they are good enough. Many fans, alumni, etc. feel the same.
 
No doubt the casual fan is frustrated with the lack of wins.

How someone who reads this board can discount the APR and lack of scholarships as not valid is disturbing. Up for the Challenge do you have any idea what the Academic plan that ISU submitted to the NCAA entailed? Do you think that ISU would risk losing the whole program to take a risk on JC kids after almost losing the whole program?

What Kramer has done with 15-20 less scholarships is nothing short of amazing. He did what he had to do to fix things and gave scholarships to academically sound walk-ons. Imagine this year if Idaho State had 15 more Sophomores and Junior that had been in the program and on scholarship. Do you discount the fact that having those extra athletes would not make a difference? Tell me how the hell does ISU stay within striking distance of teams with the lack of numbers that they lost during the APR fiasco?

You may see ISU taking some risk now that they are on the right track but they will only do so at a ratio that still allows them to be successful.

Kramer and his staff (Q. Freeman in particular) should be held on a pedestal in ISU history. They saved the program and are giving it a solid footing moving forward. Love him or hate him he resurrected a damn near dead program.

If you don't see a difference of talent on the field then you are as blind as they come. You have an offensive front that is built for the future with it 10 most talented lineman returning next season and most the season after. You have depth and talent in the WR and TE positions and you have the vast majority of incoming recruits redshirting. The program is becoming stable because of the youth--not JC transfers. Now fans are seeing some improvement on defense. This team is starting to take shape from top to bottom. Shaped by youth and continuity.

Tingey...extend Kramer right now. The job that he is doing is nothing short of phenomenal and when he wraps up his career here bring Bruce Barnum back as the head coach and watch this team start to flourish.

I am happy with the direction of the program and what they have accomplished that the casual fan cannot see.
 
Giving scholarships to walk-on players that had high GPA's to correct the APR problem actually hurt the program.

Why did Kramer recruit and sign 3 JUCO players in Yost, Henley, and Arias and obtain 1 step down player in Boyles if there was a risk after the 2010 season ended ? All four of these players graduated from ISU so where are the risks? To say JUCO players are risks academically is insane as many of the high school players that Kramer recruited and signed have left the program already.

Where do you see the improvement over the 2011 and 2012 teams? You must be really blind as the last time I viewed the Big Sky standings the 2013 team only has one win in the Big Sky against against NCU who by the way has not won a single game in the Big Sky this season. To possibly beat Weber State is not an improvement as they also have not won a single game in the Big Sky this season. So what makes you really think that the program is on the rise? By beating two division II teams that placed at the bottom of their conference this season?

As I mentioned the 2011 team would have beaten the 2013 team and the 2012 team and the 2013 team would have played to a tie.

It is best for Kramer to get out of the cellar standings in the Big Sky and find some JUCO players and step down players that can make immediate impact for the 2014 season but he will not be able to do that unless he actively connects with the JUCO head coaches in Phoenix, Los Angeles, and San Francisco areas.
 
Challenge---scholarships are restored, as it practice time as is the opportunity to play in the post season. Regardless of the comparisons that you are trying to make, that is the reality. Things are improving because two years ago you had a program on the ropes and the real risk that it would go away. Your comparisons of who would beat who don't matter as that is something that is irrelevant and impossible to prove. And a tie cannot happen because they would go to overtime until someone emerged the winner.

The program is on the rise because it is still here--scholarships, practices and post season restored. I would much rather be beating down two D-2 teams and going through the pains of growing a program from ashes than not having anything at all.

That my friend is progress, no matter what way you try to twist it.

And giving scholarships to to walk-ons to accumulate APR points was one of the quickest things available to improve the APR score. If they had not done that (its by the book APR healing 101) we might not be talking about football or an athletic program with Big Sky Conference membership or Division 1 status all together.

Please educate yourself before you respond---no really, please.
 
Don't confuse her/him/they with the FACTS!

We need to recruit the players that Alabama, Florida St, Ohio St, are recruiting. We could score more touchdowns which would mean we score more points. If we had those players from bigger schools we could be really good. If we were really good we could win more games. I think if we had really good players we could beat the 1981 ISU team.
 
Cub: I've really missed your presence on this Board. Thnks for your clarifications. You have a way of cutting through the Bull to hit the Bull's Eye.
 
Yes Cub, those are very well written explanations. Thank you.

Look, if relying heavily on JC transfers is a sure way to success, why don't most programs do it? You have to ask yourself that.

Most - not all - JC athletes who can play at this or a higher level went the way they did because they didn't qualify academically out of high school.

Look at Kansas. For his first recruiting class in 2012, Charlie Weis signed about 21 players, 8 of whom were JC players. They finished with 1 win last year. This year, he had a signing class of 26, 18 of whom were JC players. They have won 3 times, once against an FCS school. I suppose you could say they're getting better, if you look solely at W's and L's. The problem is that he is building a program which is dangerously top heavy. The 2012 JC players are done after this year, and he only has one more year with these 18. He hasn't built consistency, and he has already come under the microscope for opening up Kansas to potential academic risk. Why do you think they say that?

Now look at Alabama. This semi-pro program had a similar sized recruiting class last year, and only signed one JC player. Why do you think that is?

Boyles, by the way, had already graduated from Washington when he played here. Not much risk there.

As far as Weber goes, how can we still not be considered the underdog? We haven't won on the road since the Reagan administration (well maybe a few times since), so it is still going to take a perfect game.
 
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