Sac in the WAC

[SDHornet]

Sac State sponsors 20 varsity sports, more than any BSC program.

That is correct. The sports are:

Men’s: football, basketball, baseball, cross country, outdoor track and field, indoor track and field, soccer, tennis, and golf. (9)

Women’s: basketball, softball, cross country, outdoor track and field, indoor track and field, volleyball, gymnastics, soccer, rowing, tennis, and golf. (11)

Yes indoor and outdoor track and field is counted as separate sports.

 

[SDHornet]

Jack --> Agreed that our main sports are in the Sky and that our WAC membership is associate in nature. I think the Sky is where they should stay...

I agree with this to a certain extent. When construction on a new arena begins, it will be time to take a more serious look at making a move. Also if for some reason the BSC falls apart, there will be no choice but to go FBS.

 

[StungAlum]

Sac State sponsors 20 varsity sports, more than any BSC program.

Thanks for correcting me, I didnt feel like counting them.

I don't like to see any sport dropped by any university, I think that they are too important to the university/college experience.

But, if a sport were to be dropped, it would have to be one that would save enough money to start up another womens sport. I'm sure that there are inexpensive options out there, but how many DI options are there are the West Coast? Field hockey's out but swimming and/or diving is a possibility, however, the facilities at Sac State are not competition worthy.

 

[JackHornet]

Jack --> Agreed that our main sports are in the Sky and that our WAC membership is associate in nature. I think the Sky is where they should stay...

I agree with this to a certain extent. When construction on a new arena begins, it will be time to take a more serious look at making a move. Also if for some reason the BSC falls apart, there will be no choice but to go FBS.

That is the wrong thinking because the WAC may need members before we even start the arena. We should be prepared in case the WAC invites us.

 

[SDHornet]

Jack --> Agreed that our main sports are in the Sky and that our WAC membership is associate in nature. I think the Sky is where they should stay...

I agree with this to a certain extent. When construction on a new arena begins, it will be time to take a more serious look at making a move. Also if for some reason the BSC falls apart, there will be no choice but to go FBS.

That is the wrong thinking because the WAC may need members before we even start the arena. We should be prepared in case the WAC invites us.

That is a good point, but I don’t think Sac State should be banking on the WAC being desperate enough to let a school with a gym that only seats 1,500 people into the WAC. If that is the case, essentially Sac State is already in a position where it could receive an invitation; the problem will then be if the administration wants to pony up the money for additional scholarships and other budget increases.

If the WAC does become desperate for members, what are the odds is gives an invite to the other CA FCS schools (cp & “the farm extension”) so all three could make the jump together?

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Look, if the WAC came calling today, we do have a fallback in renting out Arco in the interim until an on-campus arena gets built. All we would need is the lower bowl anyways which is about 8K. Just have Arco staff close off the curtains to the upper deck and voila.

 

[SJHornet]

Jack --> Agreed that our main sports are in the Sky and that our WAC membership is associate in nature. I think the Sky is where they should stay...

I agree with this to a certain extent. When construction on a new arena begins, it will be time to take a more serious look at making a move. Also if for some reason the BSC falls apart, there will be no choice but to go FBS.

That is the wrong thinking because the WAC may need members before we even start the arena. We should be prepared in case the WAC invites us.

That is a good point, but I don’t think Sac State should be banking on the WAC being desperate enough to let a school with a gym that only seats 1,500 people into the WAC. If that is the case, essentially Sac State is already in a position where it could receive an invitation; the problem will then be if the administration wants to pony up the money for additional scholarships and other budget increases.

If the WAC does become desperate for members, what are the odds is gives an invite to the other CA FCS schools (cp & “the farm extension”) so all three could make the jump together?

I think they would invite Montana first, then us and then perhaps the extension. CP would have to expand both basketball and football facilities with no stadium or arena nearby to rent out or use in its place. They'd have to make some pretty lofty promises to join the WAC. Montana is ready for such a move now, dung pile only needs 5,000 more seats in its purposely expandable stadium and we have memorial or Arco nearby ready to be rented. All our other facilities would meet the requirements to join. (Erector set or not, its big enough even if its not pretty)

In the Sky, Eastern, Montana State, Portland State and Weber State are all also in a position to be invited to the WAC. Eastern would only need to add a few thousand seats to their football stadium, and Portland would be in our predicament, new arena or rent out the local arena. Montana State and Weber would both be ready to go with their current facilities even if they are a little on the small side. NAU technically has facilities that are big enough, but they would be another Idaho. I don't think the WAC wants another Idaho.

Personally, I'm starting to develop the opinion that we stay put in the Sky for the time being. Lets become a big fish in a small pond before we become a smaller minnow in a greater ocean.

 

[SDHornet]

I think they would invite Montana first, then us and then perhaps the extension. CP would have to expand both basketball and football facilities with no stadium or arena nearby to rent out or use in its place. They'd have to make some pretty lofty promises to join the WAC. Montana is ready for such a move now, dung pile only needs 5,000 more seats in its purposely expandable stadium and we have memorial or Arco nearby ready to be rented. All our other facilities would meet the requirements to join. (Erector set or not, its big enough even if its not pretty)

In the Sky, Eastern, Montana State, Portland State and Weber State are all also in a position to be invited to the WAC. Eastern would only need to add a few thousand seats to their football stadium, and Portland would be in our predicament, new arena or rent out the local arena. Montana State and Weber would both be ready to go with their current facilities even if they are a little on the small side. NAU technically has facilities that are big enough, but they would be another Idaho. I don't think the WAC wants another Idaho.

Personally, I'm starting to develop the opinion that we stay put in the Sky for the time being. Lets become a big fish in a small pond before we become a smaller minnow in a greater ocean.

SJH, I agree with your comments about the facilities, but there are issues with Montana moving up. Montana only sponsors 14 sports. Plus, according to their posters, they make 500k per home game because they sellout which means there is absolutely no monetary incentive for them to move up. Let’s not overlook the fact that they would not be able to use many of their Montana recruits to be competitive at the FBS level. Then there are the potential political issues with the possibility of UM & MSU moving up together.

Sac State will never be the big fish at the FCS level as all FBS schools get recognition priority in CA. What the CA FCS schools have going for them is the fact that they reside in talent rich CA. This means visiting schools can use the road game as a recruiting opportunity to try and land CA talent. And more in favor for Sac State is the school is in a metropolitan area, which means a viable TV market. (Ironically this is the same reason the BSC took in Sac State.) Aside from maybe Portland State, I can’t imagine any of the other BSC schools you mentioned even considering making a FBS move. IF Sac State can find the money for the move, I would support it.

 

[Kadeezy]

I wish I could contrinute more guys, but I can't. I'm exhausted from talking about this in the last 7 years or so of Sac State related message board activity. I don't see this happening any time soon though (not in the next 5 years). If Boise State leaps to the Mountain West, does that increase our chances?

 

[SactoHornetAlum]

Actually, one of the requirements for full memberships to the WAC (and I remember reading this somewhere) is that a full member must have baseball and/or softball or swimming and diving. So that throws Montana out right out the gate, unless they add it. And Weber is adding softball this year back to go along with us, ISU, UNC and PSU. So unless Montana adds baseball or softball or swimming, I don't think they can be considered for WAC membership. Idaho is in the WAC since they have swimming and diving to meet the requirements.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

Maloofs charge a small fortune to rent ARCO. That is why we don't use it today, we couldn't average enough people to break even. We had Christmas tournaments back in the 90's under McElroy and the most who attended was 2,000+.

I have heard (read) that when the moratorium lapses any FCS school must pay $1M to move to FBS. Don't think we have that kind of cash laying around.

I am with Kadeezy, this has been discussed for years and until football starts making some bank through attendance, we are Big Sky proud.

I don't see how the three Ca. FCS teams could move up. CP is remote and limited, davis sponsors 28 varsity sports and tuition is skyrocketing based on historical numbers and Sac has sub-standard facilities and a State supplied bank account. Yes, the BSC took Sac because Sac has a very high TV/Media market, but what has that got them in the past 13 years?

Fresno doesnt have the Kings and a local paper who covers every aspect of the Kings like TMZ.com. So Fresno has the luxury of being the only game in town. According to the Bee, Sac State falls somewhere below Prep sports.

 

[JackHornet]

Maloofs charge a small fortune to rent ARCO. That is why we don't use it today, we couldn't average enough people to break even. We had Christmas tournaments back in the 90's under McElroy and the most who attended was 2,000+.

I have heard (read) that when the moratorium lapses any FCS school must pay $1M to move to FBS. Don't think we have that kind of cash laying around.

That million dollar figure hasn't been decided. Yes, when the moratorium ends, there will be higher fees to move to D1 and FBS but the amount is still being decided.

This is our 14th or 15the year in the Big Sky and it has been a great conference for us. But we need to look at any possible option for improvement, that may come to us. In another 10 years do we want to be in the Big Sky or WAC?

To those who don't want to read anymore about us moving to the WAC, why are you bothering to reply to posts on the topic?

 

[superhornet]

But, if a sport were to be dropped, it would have to be one that would save enough money to start up another womens sport. I'm sure that there are inexpensive options out there, but how many DI options are there are the West Coast? Field hockey's out but swimming and/or diving is a possibility, however, the facilities at Sac State are not competition worthy.

Stung --> Why is field hockey out? There's a ready-made opponent barely half an hour away down 99.

Agree with you about aquasports. I'd like to see us add both polos, too, but the same thing applies. You fix one, you probably fix all of them at the same time.

 

[JackHornet]

If we got into the WAC and had to increase men's scholarships for for football, by 22 or so, we could just cut a men's sport or two. Soccer and men's tennis and indoor men's track may add up to 22 men's soccer.

We don't always have to add a women's sport.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

But, if a sport were to be dropped, it would have to be one that would save enough money to start up another womens sport. I'm sure that there are inexpensive options out there, but how many DI options are there are the West Coast? Field hockey's out but swimming and/or diving is a possibility, however, the facilities at Sac State are not competition worthy.

Stung --> Why is field hockey out? There's a ready-made opponent barely half an hour away down 99.

Agree with you about aquasports. I'd like to see us add both polos, too, but the same thing applies. You fix one, you probably fix all of them at the same time.

Field Hockey takes lots of bodies, it is like rowing 50-60 members.

Men's Golf might be the only program that could be cut, but how much would we save? Not much.

JackHornet-Yes, I'd like to see us in the WAC, but right now it would be untenable. People like looking at these posts because they are interested too, whats wrong with that?

Key is basketball facility and a spruced up Hornet stadium averaging 15,000+ fans a game. Then we might be open to legitimate discussions.

But what happens when losing takes over, see almost all recent FBS move-ups, W. kentucky went 0fer this year, then you start the slippery slope of SJSU, where unless you are winning nobody cares and then attendance drops then you cant fund everything. Probably why Montana is hesitant, they start losing and will people still pack their stadium? W/o football sellouts, they are just another run of the pack BSC program.

Unless the Sac State students vote to fund a move to FBS, how likely is that? We will need a strong income (tax) base to support a FBS program.

 

[JackHornet]

Look we got into the Big Sky because of potential and the Sky needed members after Idaho and Boise left.

If the WAC loses Boise and maybe others, we may get into the WAC based on potential. We got an arena on the books. The WAC could ask how long until you start construction? Or admit us into the WAC and then penalize us if we don't have the arena built by a certain date.

 

[SDHornet]

If we got into the WAC and had to increase men's scholarships for for football, by 22 or so, we could just cut a men's sport or two. Soccer and men's tennis and indoor men's track may add up to 22 men's soccer.

We don't always have to add a women's sport.

Sac State has both indoor and outdoor track and field because the same athletes and coaches are under scholarship/contract to compete/coach in it. The only saving from “cutting” indoor track would be travel costs. My sister is on a full ride at U of A and another sister just exhausted her eligibility at LBSU, both got scholarships in track and XC. They both have/had to participate in both outdoor and indoor track when under scholarship.

I don’t think cuts alone could makeup the difference in men’s scholarships. Ultimately it will come down to adding women scholarships as well.

 

[SDHornet]

I am with Kadeezy, this has been discussed for years and until football starts making some bank through attendance, we are Big Sky proud.

I don't see how the three Ca. FCS teams could move up. CP is remote and limited, davis sponsors 28 varsity sports and tuition is skyrocketing based on historical numbers and Sac has sub-standard facilities and a State supplied bank account. Yes, the BSC took Sac because Sac has a very high TV/Media market, but what has that got them in the past 13 years?

Fresno doesnt have the Kings and a local paper who covers every aspect of the Kings like TMZ.com. So Fresno has the luxury of being the only game in town. According to the Bee, Sac State falls somewhere below Prep sports.

I think it would be damn near impossible for the local media to ignore Sac State if they went FBS. The fact that Sac State couldn’t/wouldn’t be ignored any more in the media would translate into higher attendance. The question is how much more attendance and would that increase be significant enough to generate a considerable amount of revenue for Sac State. The TV market idea didn’t work for the Big Sky model because no one in Sacramento gives a damn about ISU, UM, MSU, etc. I think the Sacramento TV market would be more meaningful if “regional” schools (SJSU, Nevada, Fresno State, or whoever is left in the WAC after the Mountain West makes its move) are in the conference. Also being FBS means the possibility of a home and home with Cal, Stanford (their fans would most likely drive from the Bay Area to see the game at Sac) or more likely lowly SDSU & UNLV (not many of these fans would travel but at least they are a “regional” OOC opponent).

And GCM I agree, I don’t think all the CA FCS schools move up together, but I thought it was a plausible idea so I threw it out there.

 

[Green Cookie Monster]

If you read Spartan Thunder or other SJSU boards they are always complaining about the lack of, negative coverage by the Mercury. Guess who owns the Mercury, McClatchy the same useless company that owns the Bee.

If Sac State went FBS, I bet Preps would still rule. The Bee has always wanted Sacramento to be a 'little Bay Area', just look at their coverage of the 49ers/Raiders, Giants/A's. Do you see the Fresno Bee giving that much coverage to the Dodgers, Lakers, Galaxy, etc?

SD, I'm in San Diego right now on business. I forgot what an awesome city it is, I guess when you leave home and it is 18*, arriving in San Diego is heaven. Anyway, what is the percentage of coverage the local rag gives the Aztecs compared to the Chargers/Padres, etc? And preps.

I wouldn't bet that the Bee would suddenly fall over themselves because the Hornets were now FBS. Remember when the Surge/Gold Miners were in town? The Bee covered and promoted them incessantly, do you think the Bee would take that line with Sac State?

 

[SJHornet]

GCM, the San Jose Mercury News is the biggest piece of sh#! in the bay area. The boys on Spartan Thunder are most def right on. Their coverage of the Spartans and Earthquakes, teams in their own town, make the Bee look like the State Hornet for athletics coverage. They only cover the Sharks, 49ers Raiders Warriors, Cal, Stanford and bits of the WCC schools. SJSU might as well not exist, and as for the Quakes, they don't even know they exist, (very personal agitation). Its a big market, but they gave full pages to the frickin Saber Cats for crying out loud!

As for the Hornets and the Bee, I don't think our FCS status should matter a damn. And I don't think they will suddenly care for us if we jumped up a slight notch. I think our athletic department needs to put more pressure on the sports editor to cover the Hornets. And to that matter, (this would be very important for any such jump to the WAC), there needs to be a greater concentration of marketing for the athletic program. More than just adverts on the county busses. I think one step would be to buy time on Comcast Sports Net, or find any local station that would be willing to pick up our games on local television. We don't need it for the TV money as much as the exposure.

I think the S mark they have now is very cool. In fact I have a few friends who don't go to state and know nothing of our program that want merchandise with the S on it. We need to get our merch in more local stores, and get the teams more recognition in the community. All this city has is the Kings. We need to make it known that this community has DI athletics in their back yards and its affordable and a good time out, (Yes, yes. I realize this will bring us back to the facility debate). Make the program a brand that is pleasing to everyone in the Sacramento region and we will start seeing higher revenues at the box office and higher merchandising sales. If Fresno can make it work, (ugh, made a Fresno reference), we can at least give it a shot.