Collins Contract Extension

[mountainbear]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

 

[Beardown]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

 

[mountainbear]

Beardown.....I agree with the spoiled observation. The fact that players brought suit (Minnesota or Northwestern I think) to be "paid" for their services speaks volumes! As far as players b eing greatful for the opportunity to play......It's important to understand that mr. collins "allowed" kids to play football has more to do with self interest than benevolence on his part. Players do enter a contractual agreement with UNC.....they are expected to perform at a particular level in exchange for scholarship (full or part). Indeed some receive no financial reward....they just get to be a part of a program. Based my knowledge, the current coach has made adjustments in the amount of $$ some players receive. I am very certain that $$ adjustments were imposed on some of the players that he inherited from Downing. It is in a head coach's best interest to keep players who contribute to the win/loss record that becomes the coach's legacy. In theory it works both ways....players SHOULD be grateful for the opportunities they have, and in return the institution rewards them financially. Sadly, the "character development" component that should naturally follow with being part of a program has misfired here. The disconnect in mutual respect is too great. Yes, Woody Hayes and Bob Knight may not have been the best examples of character imbalance, but the players respected them (for the most part) because they knew exactly what they were getting involved with. I believe the incongruity in public image and what players see is simply too vast.

 

[mountainbear]

One last thing......ditto on the college debt observation!

 

[BearsAlum]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

You Cant be serious... This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I played for 1 year under Collins. Nobody wants to play for Collins. I keep in touch with guys still on the team that cant stand him.

Be grateful he gave us an opportunity? Come pay your student loans? you are a joke.... You have no idea what kind of work goes into playing football in college.

Collins should not have a job.... end of story

 

[Beardown]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

You Cant be serious... This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I played for 1 year under Collins. Nobody wants to play for Collins. I keep in touch with guys still on the team that cant stand him.

Be grateful he gave us an opportunity? Come pay your student loans? you are a joke.... You have no idea what kind of work goes into playing football in college.

Collins should not have a job.... end of story

Thank you for proving narcism is alive and well with your generation. This "joke" helped pay for your scholarship. hno: hno:

I may not know what it's like to play college football, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of a program that has been putrid for over a decade. We've been so bad for so long that you must blame every one from the president down to the water boys and trainers, and that of course includes all the coaches AND players. If you really loved Downing that much you should have won more games for him. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[BearsAlum]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

You Cant be serious... This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I played for 1 year under Collins. Nobody wants to play for Collins. I keep in touch with guys still on the team that cant stand him.

Be grateful he gave us an opportunity? Come pay your student loans? you are a joke.... You have no idea what kind of work goes into playing football in college.

Collins should not have a job.... end of story

Thank you for proving narcism is alive and well with your generation. This "joke" helped pay for your scholarship. hno: hno:

I may not know what it's like to play college football, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of a program that has been putrid for over a decade. We've been so bad for so long that you must blame every one from the president down to the water boys and trainers, and that of course includes all the coaches AND players. If you really loved Downing that much you should have won more games for him. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You can't really say that we should be grateful just to have a scholarship. A lot of us are grateful to have had a scholarship, but most have worked their asses off for them. I don't see any issue with having problems with the current coaching staff and the things that are going on with them. You do not see what goes on behind closed doors. If that makes me ungrateful for the scholarship I had then so be it.

I never said Downing had it figured out either. We obviously were terrible then too. Downing was showing signs of improvement and had the respect of his players though. We atleast battled for Downing. There is no fight in these teams under Collins. I was spoke with about 15 of the top players from last years team that said that nothing has changed since the year I played under Collins. Nobody respects him. There are so many issues with his whole coaching staff. I dont want to get into specifics about some of the things I've heard from him and seen from him but in my opinion he does not deserve to have a head coaching job at UNC.

 

[Beardown]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

You Cant be serious... This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I played for 1 year under Collins. Nobody wants to play for Collins. I keep in touch with guys still on the team that cant stand him.

Be grateful he gave us an opportunity? Come pay your student loans? you are a joke.... You have no idea what kind of work goes into playing football in college.

Collins should not have a job.... end of story

Thank you for proving narcism is alive and well with your generation. This "joke" helped pay for your scholarship. hno: hno:

I may not know what it's like to play college football, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of a program that has been putrid for over a decade. We've been so bad for so long that you must blame every one from the president down to the water boys and trainers, and that of course includes all the coaches AND players. If you really loved Downing that much you should have won more games for him. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You can't really say that we should be grateful just to have a scholarship. A lot of us are grateful to have had a scholarship, but most have worked their asses off for them. I don't see any issue with having problems with the current coaching staff and the things that are going on with them. You do not see what goes on behind closed doors. If that makes me ungrateful for the scholarship I had then so be it.

I never said Downing had it figured out either. We obviously were terrible then too. Downing was showing signs of improvement and had the respect of his players though. We atleast battled for Downing. There is no fight in these teams under Collins. I was spoke with about 15 of the top players from last years team that said that nothing has changed since the year I played under Collins. Nobody respects him. There are so many issues with his whole coaching staff. I dont want to get into specifics about some of the things I've heard from him and seen from him but in my opinion he does not deserve to have a head coaching job at UNC.

Just because you worked your ass off doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship. I'm glad you did, but you're not entitled to my money or any other boosters. I don't make a lot of money, but I always try to put money away to give to UNC for student-athletes. It probably isn't wise to call myself or anyone who helped pay for your education a "joke." Shame on you man.

 

[McCandyman]

Just because you worked your ass off doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship. I'm glad you did, but you're not entitled to my money or any other boosters. I don't make a lot of money, but I always try to put money away to give to UNC for student-athletes. It probably isn't wise to call myself or anyone who helped pay for your education a "joke." Shame on you man.

This generation, and unfortunately those behind them, all seem to feel "entitled." Even the dumbest dog knows not to bite the hand that feeds it. Players like this guy are the problem, not the solution. They think they "deserve." To quote Clint Eastwood, "Deserves got nothing to do with it." Go Bears!!!

 

[mountainbear]

BearsAlum......
Thank you for your post.
You stated the point that I have been attempting to make in very clear terms.
Again, players don't play for a coach, however, the coach sets the time for the program. In a previous post I acknowledged Coach Downing as a man players respected..... Not the case with Mr collins.
As far as I can tell, we continue to lose support because we have an imposter in charge.
McCandyMan.....I would like to suggest that if more "guys like this" would come forward perhaps the true issue would be exposed! Not to live in the past, but any coach who enters a relationship with a team asking "can I trust you?" And printing that on team gear is not to be trusted.
Again, mr collins' best record as a head coach came as a result of the work and leadership of those inferior players Coach Downing recruited.
As frustrated as we all may be...... It seems like the last reasonable record came as the result of Coach Downing's players (the ones who couldn't be trusted per mr collins) expressing their frustration on the field...... ????

 

[Beardown]

So what's the underlying issue? Why don't the players respect him?

 

[mountainbear]

Well....good question!
I suppose players themselves can provide the most accurate responses.....and I hope they will.
From where I sit, upon his arrival, even though there was a great deal of speculation about the most suitable candidate (and the extended process the head honchos oversaw)....regardless, mr collins was the winner in the marathon that our hiring process became. Some would argue that "the fix was on", and the longer the process took, more qualified candidates (in my opinion) dropped out......they weren't necessarily eliminated, rather, they jumped off the train as the result of our inaction. I suppose that players are pretty much (at this point) unaware of that entire process. I do believe that Coach Downing's recruits agonizingly watched as their program's direction was altered (note: no excuses for the Downing era record).
As I have said previously, the players were committed to Downing because they knew him to be a credible, sincere man of his word. When I was in town during those times, players seemed (to me) to own their performance, express genuine concern, and believe that things were going to improve (my opinion of what I heard and observed). For that group, the injection of mr collins initially brought excitement, and attention. All reports of off season workouts were upbeat, and people were looking forward. As Spring drills and certainly Summer workouts progresses, enthusiasm peaked. In my mind, things began to head south once the new staff was exposed. They quickly became frustrated with the remaining folks from the Downing era. The new coaches did not hesitate to throw players under the bus (CSU was the most pathetic pre and post game coaches chat I had ever heard). The attitude of "us" quickly became "me". My disdain of "can I trust
you" started here.

 

[mountainbear]

As time went by, the staff's inexperience, manic facade feigning enthusiasm, and ridiculous overtures regarding people "buying in" seemed to dominate the program message. I don't believe that today's college athletes can be "fooled" or intimidated as easily as we may have been. Bottom line......it is my sincere belief that players began to see through the transparent shortcomings of this head coach. It has also been interesting to see coaches come to this staff and move on. I would be curious to pick some of their brains. The culture has moved toward a what's in it for me.......My understanding is that the coach's word is less than....well, less than it it should be. I have to say that I don't believe that mr colling is totally at fault. I think that he was appointed to his position at a time in his life when he was not ready enough to be a Head Coach at UNC or any institution. In order to attempt to do his best, theatrics and bravado were the best that he could do.
Substance, honesty and transparency are always preferable. To provide a short answer to your question.....that is why I don't believe that players respect this coach.

 

[BearsAlum]

As time went by, the staff's inexperience, manic facade feigning enthusiasm, and ridiculous overtures regarding people "buying in" seemed to dominate the program message. I don't believe that today's college athletes can be "fooled" or intimidated as easily as we may have been. Bottom line......it is my sincere belief that players began to see through the transparent shortcomings of this head coach. It has also been interesting to see coaches come to this staff and move on. I would be curious to pick some of their brains. The culture has moved toward a what's in it for me.......My understanding is that the coach's word is less than....well, less than it it should be. I have to say that I don't believe that mr colling is totally at fault. I think that he was appointed to his position at a time in his life when he was not ready enough to be a Head Coach at UNC or any institution. In order to attempt to do his best, theatrics and bravado were the best that he could do.
Substance, honesty and transparency are always preferable. To provide a short answer to your question.....that is why I don't believe that players respect this coach.

All of this is so true. Has coach Collins ever once accepted any of the blame for a loss? All I ever heard was player after player get thrown under the bus. I don't care if he believed its wasn't his fault and all on us, you don't throw all the blame on your team. All of his talk of players not "buying in" or "Can I trust you?" was such bs. I will tell you that players did buy in until we started getting trashed by Coach Collins. We also had the most incompetent coaching staff ever. Downing was bringing top coaching talent to UNC. We had Peterson, Shaver, Bedell. All guys that knew exactly what they were doing and were responsible in a big way for the upward trend we definitely were on.

I didn't hear this personally, but there was a lot of talk of racist remarks about the white players from one of the coaches on Collins staff. I don't want to go into what was supposedly said, but I have no reason to believe several of my teammates would have made something like that up.

 

[BearsAlum]

Good question! The answer is yes. Both players brought in by Downing and mr. collins. Rather than rehash previous posts, again, take a moment to review my posts. I find humor (sick humor) in the fact that out most productive season was with Downing's last class.
The concept of character development in sports is solid..... My observation is that sincerity can't be faked... The public gestures of this coach have fallen short because many find those actions as being disingenuous.

Shouldn't they be grateful that Collins gave them a chance to play football in college? If they were put on scholarship they should be extra grateful! Maybe they can come over and pay my student loan debt? Today's athletes are so spoiled.

You Cant be serious... This is the stupidest thing I have ever read. I played for 1 year under Collins. Nobody wants to play for Collins. I keep in touch with guys still on the team that cant stand him.

Be grateful he gave us an opportunity? Come pay your student loans? you are a joke.... You have no idea what kind of work goes into playing football in college.

Collins should not have a job.... end of story

Thank you for proving narcism is alive and well with your generation. This "joke" helped pay for your scholarship. hno: hno:

I may not know what it's like to play college football, but you have no idea what it's like to be a fan of a program that has been putrid for over a decade. We've been so bad for so long that you must blame every one from the president down to the water boys and trainers, and that of course includes all the coaches AND players. If you really loved Downing that much you should have won more games for him. If that was the case we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You can't really say that we should be grateful just to have a scholarship. A lot of us are grateful to have had a scholarship, but most have worked their asses off for them. I don't see any issue with having problems with the current coaching staff and the things that are going on with them. You do not see what goes on behind closed doors. If that makes me ungrateful for the scholarship I had then so be it.

I never said Downing had it figured out either. We obviously were terrible then too. Downing was showing signs of improvement and had the respect of his players though. We atleast battled for Downing. There is no fight in these teams under Collins. I was spoke with about 15 of the top players from last years team that said that nothing has changed since the year I played under Collins. Nobody respects him. There are so many issues with his whole coaching staff. I dont want to get into specifics about some of the things I've heard from him and seen from him but in my opinion he does not deserve to have a head coaching job at UNC.

Just because you worked your ass off doesn't mean you deserve a scholarship. I'm glad you did, but you're not entitled to my money or any other boosters. I don't make a lot of money, but I always try to put money away to give to UNC for student-athletes. It probably isn't wise to call myself or anyone who helped pay for your education a "joke." Shame on you man.

You obviously have no idea what goes into playing football and maintaining a full course load while maintaining a good GPA. That's not easy and not something that you can understand if you didn't play. These players deserve every penny they get. Thanks for your donation and whatever percentage of my scholarship you paid for, but that doesn't change the fact that you really don't know what you are talking about. Saying an athlete is spoiled because he isn't grateful for a scholarship is ridiculous. I will say that 95% of athletes are grateful for it. Its not about just being happy with getting money though. These players want to win and want to play for a man that they respect.

 

[McCandyman]

Trust me, I know exactly "what goes into playing football and maintaining a full course load while maintaining a good GPA." It's not easy. But it's a choice you made when you accepted a scholarship at UNC. Granted that you made that choice when Downing was coach. When he was fired and Collins was hired, you apparently had a hard time adjusting to the new coaching style and his staff. You stated that you only played for Collins for one year, so I'm assuming it was your senior year. I'm sure it was an adjustment for you and all your teammates, especially for the upperclassmen like yourself. New offense, new defense, new routine, new rules, etc. Being a upperclassman you may have felt slighted by the amount of playing time you got under Collins. I'm sure that losing eleven games was not how you envisioned you last season of football. Bottom line, you and some other players are bitter about your experience with UNC and Collins. That does not mean that "nobody respects him." I know for a FACT that all of the players on the team do NOT feel this way. Like I said before, you made a choice to play football at UNC. You could have walked away at anytime, but you didn't. I assume that you stayed because you didn't want to lose that scholarship that you are not grateful to have received. You obviously didn't stay because you cared about the team as a whole, because after all, the entire coaching staff is part of the team. Remember, there is no "I" in team. Go Bears!!!

 

[McCandyman]

BearsAlum......
Thank you for your post.
You stated the point that I have been attempting to make in very clear terms.
Again, players don't play for a coach, however, the coach sets the time for the program. In a previous post I acknowledged Coach Downing as a man players respected..... Not the case with Mr collins.
As far as I can tell, we continue to lose support because we have an imposter in charge.
McCandyMan.....I would like to suggest that if more "guys like this" would come forward perhaps the true issue would be exposed! Not to live in the past, but any coach who enters a relationship with a team asking "can I trust you?" And printing that on team gear is not to be trusted.
Again, mr collins' best record as a head coach came as a result of the work and leadership of those inferior players Coach Downing recruited.
As frustrated as we all may be...... It seems like the last reasonable record came as the result of Coach Downing's players (the ones who couldn't be trusted per mr collins) expressing their frustration on the field...... ????

Did you ever stop to think that the phrase "Can I Trust You" was meant to be from a player's perspective. Can you trust the guy beside you? Can you trust everyone (players and coaches) to put the team first? Can I trust you to do your job? Your one sided view of a phrase printed on team gear helps to support the comments I posted earlier. You resented losing Downing.

 

[beardevil39]

I have been patiently reading all of the posts regarding "Collins Contract" and a lot of good points from both sides. I don't care how you cut it, the bottom line comes down to winning. Nobody likes a loser and everybody loves a winner. We all said a few seasons ago that we are at the bottom of the hole and we dug (meaning the choices that the powers-to-be made) a deep freakin hole and would take a lot of help from everyone involved to climb out of. Losing does nothing but breed hate and discontent for everyone. I believe with Collin's record, that he should of been fired after the final game. I mean no disrespect for the man but lets be real !! Excellence is not a skill, its an attitude ! Go Bears !

 

[mountainbear]

Just a couple of things:
McCandyMan, good point. The "Can I trust you" mentality could have been intended to be received in a number of ways. Because people have difficulty reading"intent", we tend to make assessments based on the realities that we perceive. From where I sit, there was never a doubt about the manner in which the message was presented, implemented, and received by players. As BearsAlum alluded to, the players (by and large) seemed to own their body of work, and even believe the perpetually optimistic words of Coach Downing. "Can I trust you", regardless of intent shifted the paradigm to an "answer to me;I'm the judge" away from a more shared ownership. My analogy would be for a husband and wife, after a number of years of marriage to begin asking "can I trust you?" The attempts of this coach to provide church and character type stuff were neutralized by his words and actions toward players. As I have stated a number of times before.....it's difficult for me to fathom that athletes who have worked at improving their performance for any number of years would not be "trusted" to put forth their best effort. For the great player who "takes a play off", I sincerely doubt that getting in this player's face with a personal "can I trust you?" pays dividends. It seems to me that an efficient Coach inspires players to perform at higher levels for themselves or their teammates. I suppose that if I really believed that creating suspicion, animosity, and boisterous fear in tan organization that I was to lead, I'd really have a better understanding. By the same token, if I were to selected to lead a group that I couldn't trust, I'm not sure that would be the best place for me to be. Please, look at your wife tonight, your associates tomorrow and ask aloud "can I trust you?"......see the effect that has on your relationships. As a matter of fact, do that every day.....let us know how that works for you. Oh, and when things go poorly or not as planned, be sure to point out PUBLICLY the fact that it is not your fault, and don't hesitate to name those who are to blame. And, oh yes......per mr collins pre CSU radio chat a few years ago, remember that it is important "play mind games" with people.

Regarding your suggestion that I resent Downing's departure: Alike most of the Bear faithful, I was not impressed with our record at that time. Was it time for a change?????? probably. As I have stated previously, the players genuinely seemed to be optimistic......they seemed to buy into Coach Downing's familial approach to moving a diverse organization forward. I know we became weary of the "we'll get 'em next time", "we lost x games by under 3 points", "we're going to get better". The truth is, we'll never know (although we were at a seemingly critical time).

 

[BearsAlum]

Trust me, I know exactly "what goes into playing football and maintaining a full course load while maintaining a good GPA." It's not easy. But it's a choice you made when you accepted a scholarship at UNC. Granted that you made that choice when Downing was coach. When he was fired and Collins was hired, you apparently had a hard time adjusting to the new coaching style and his staff. You stated that you only played for Collins for one year, so I'm assuming it was your senior year. I'm sure it was an adjustment for you and all your teammates, especially for the upperclassmen like yourself. New offense, new defense, new routine, new rules, etc. Being a upperclassman you may have felt slighted by the amount of playing time you got under Collins. I'm sure that losing eleven games was not how you envisioned you last season of football. Bottom line, you and some other players are bitter about your experience with UNC and Collins. That does not mean that "nobody respects him." I know for a FACT that all of the players on the team do NOT feel this way. Like I said before, you made a choice to play football at UNC. You could have walked away at anytime, but you didn't. I assume that you stayed because you didn't want to lose that scholarship that you are not grateful to have received. You obviously didn't stay because you cared about the team as a whole, because after all, the entire coaching staff is part of the team. Remember, there is no "I" in team. Go Bears!!!

Well I don't know who you are talking to because I know that this was a huge issue. You obviously weren't in the locker room though so how can you say you know for a fact? Also I wasn't someone slighted in playing time. Collins couldn't cut my PT even if he wanted to. Dont you ever question what I did for this team though. I didnt care about this team? you can kiss my ass. I busted my ass for this Coaching staff. It doesnt change the fact that they suck. I stayed because I love my school and my teammates. I couldn't care less about this coaching staff. Please dont comment on anything when you were not in the locker room. I was there. I keep in touch with a ton of my teammates. Nothing has changed. Maybe you would feel the same way if you heard from the running back coach that the only place for white players is on the offensive line you would feel the same way. You guys truly have no idea what is going on in that place.