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Promising future for the Bengals

Cub....You obviously understand this APR stuff and I know it is complicated, but is the real problem all the players that have left the program rather than the players that are still here?
 
BTW, what happened this week does not concern me at all--because I am not sure that it is relevant to what is going on. That doesn't mean that it is not, but I want to make myself clear...I am not saying that it does.

As far as Mr. Tingey is concerned, I would expect that he would give the same answers that any AD would.
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
Cub....You obviously understand this APR stuff and I know it is complicated, but is the real problem all the players that have left the program rather than the players that are still here?
Click to expand...

No, I do not understand the APR stuff very well. I think I understand it more than the average fan. The answer to your question is both--for reasons that I am not articulate enough to explain.

APR and retention are the same thing and they are a different thing in my opinion. What I can say is that mass attrition does not help. But, forget the APR for a second...the foundation of the ISU program is built on FR and the youth of the program. This program is hurting a ton now because they have lost a ton of players from the first two recruiting classes. Granted, kids have been brought in that were not part of the press releases and some of the losses have been replaced. My question is this, how many of these kids are contributing and how many were offered a scholarship before they came aboard?

The truth is, this is all spin in both directions. Supporters of Zamberlin and the ISU administration are going to say that things are improving--but what are they going to say? People like you and I who are concerned will make a case for concern--but what are we going to say?

I will continue to be concerned no matter what these folks say. Why? Because it is a legitimate concern--regardless of APR. Regardless of how anyone wants to gift wrap their opinion on this debate, retention in the program has cost ISU depth, talent and the ability to field a competitive BSC team. No amount of fluff and spin can hide that.

If ISU in general would spend as much time fixing the problem as searching for the sources of the leaks--real positive progress may be possible.
 
The Bengals have a promising future in my opinion. It is up to Coach Z and his staff to bring a great recruiting class to ISU this year. Great recruits mean winning in the future. The Bengal fans are loyal fans that will take their loses today but they also want to start winning in the future. Hopefully, the Bengal boat will start heading in the right direction in the very near future.
 
As far as Mr. Tingey is concerned, I would expect that he would give the same answers that any AD would.
Click to expand...

Cub...I don't doubt that Mr. Tingey might give the same answers that any other AD would...I'm just wondering if there's an insinuation there that the answers might not be the truth?
 
votb said:
As far as Mr. Tingey is concerned, I would expect that he would give the same answers that any AD would.
Click to expand...

Cub...I don't doubt that Mr. Tingey might give the same answers that any other AD would...I'm just wondering if there's an insinuation there that the answers might not be the truth?
Click to expand...

bold claim voice box...i think it's obvious to most that Tingey will not say anything incriminating of the program...as any good AD would.

how would you define the truth anyway voice?

is it still truth to intentionally omit certain aspects of an answer, while proactively abstaining from stating falsehoods, so as to shed a better light on the actual situation?

i would certainly expect such omissions. that is part of the job description right?
 
votb said:
As far as Mr. Tingey is concerned, I would expect that he would give the same answers that any AD would.
Click to expand...

Cub...I don't doubt that Mr. Tingey might give the same answers that any other AD would...I'm just wondering if there's an insinuation there that the answers might not be the truth?
Click to expand...

No, I am not saying that he would not be telling the truth. What I am saying is that the answers will not reveal the whole story. I call it COACH SPEAK--controlling the message.
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
Hey, VOTB...."My boys on the team" comment wasn't mine....I said my information is coming from work, barber and bar talk...but I did talk with a player and maybe it wasn't a football player but that did happen and it would be great to quit calling it a rumor because Frank already said it happened. 30 players pulled from practice is fact. No one is forming a firing squad...just wondering if Cub's prediction is coming true.
Click to expand...


GBO...I went back on the other thread and here's Frank's entire and only post on the subject:

I can end this one right now, since Kelvin Ang actually called because someone called him about it and got the whole thing wrong. On Tuesday, several players missed practice across a variety of sports because they were dealing with academic issues pertaining to the mid-term reports that were given to each coach and the administration. Most of the issues with grades were things like "the lab isn't factored in", or a grade was inputted incorrectly, but coaches and the administration felt it was better to handled it right then and there instead of waiting until the end of the semester when it might be too late, or look odd.

Just a case of trying to stay on top of things...happy to announce that we took 58 kids to Flagstaff, and volleyball and soccer and everyone else is at full strength.
Click to expand...

I don't see anywhere in his post that he confirmed that 30 football players were held out of practice. From a journalistic standpoint...it's like reporting a tornado when it was just 30 mph gusts.
 
Well, what I know is that Frank told me at practice Wednesday that 3 players might not make the NAU trip (I will not give their names) unless they got their grade reports cleared up. They handled it...they traveled...and they played.
 
bold claim voice box...i think it's obvious to most that Tingey will not say anything incriminating of the program...as any good AD would.

how would you define the truth anyway voice?

is it still truth to intentionally omit certain aspects of an answer, while proactively abstaining from stating falsehoods, so as to shed a better light on the actual situation?

i would certainly expect such omissions. that is part of the job description right?
Click to expand...

I will NOT speak for the AD...that's his job. It just seemed so much like a politician or main-stream-media-like to try and negate the opposition's comments before they're even made.
 
and it would seem fool-hardy to expect that the "opposition's" comments would reflect EVERTHING that is going on.. no one expects that. i think that was the point
 
Votb...I think Frank accidently left the 0 off of the 3. Ask Frank how many players were pulled from practice Tuesday and I think he will tell you alot more than several, like around 30. Remember this was all sports so the number may be even higher. I'm done debating the number but remember the TEAM knows the truth.
 
If 30 players missed football practice this week, I will stand corrected. Frank did not say it on this board, though. Frank never ever posted a NUMBER so you can't seriously be claiming he left the "0" off the "3"....he used the word "several". The only number he used was "58" when he said how many players were going to Flagstaff. I'm sorry GBO...but my 30-year career in journalism has left me with no respect for reporters who let people "slide" when they innacurately quote others. I already said I'd apologize if 30 players were held out of practice, but you don't get away with saying Frank confirmed it here, or that he left out the "0" in his post. He did neither. By the way, my wife hates me for being so detailed about this kind of stuff, with her, too.
 
Votb..I never said Frank said 30 in his post. Did you notice my period in the sentence. I said it is a fact that 30 players were pulled and I meant Frank accidently left the 0 off in your conversation at practice Wednesday. I really doubt your wife hates you...
 
Maybe this will help....

Frank, I have a few questions:

How many FOOTBALL players missed practice this past week to clear up grade issues?
How many athletes in the whole ISU athletic program missed practice time? How many total ISU athletes had this issue?
How much practice time did the football players miss?
Is this normal for kids to be pulled from practice to take care of these types of things? Does it happen often?
 
GOBIGORANGE said:
Votb..I never said Frank said 30 in his post. Did you notice my period in the sentence. I said it is a fact that 30 players were pulled and I meant Frank accidently left the 0 off in your conversation at practice Wednesday. I really doubt your wife hates you...
Click to expand...


Frank did NOT "accidentally" leave off the "0" when he spoke with me. How does one "accidentally insinuate "3" when they meant "30" in a verbal conversation? The only realistic inference is that he lied to me when we spoke. Frank intentionally came up in the stands Wednesday to explain to me why 3 players were not at practice. He gave me the names of the three players and told me exactly what was happening and why. Those three were the only ones not at practice (I sat through over a half-hour of it) with the exception of the few that had to leave to attend a class (I saw them leave). Don't you think I would have noticed 30 players being gone? I go to practice every week...


My wife hates me being so technical about what she says...or about what other people say. You may be starting to feel the same way.

Eventually, Frank will save us. he almost always does. He's one of my heroes in this business.
 
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