WSU (3-3) vs. PSU (3-3) / SAC ST (5-1)

[Midmajor??]

I guess that I am just hoping that our returning players, minus a couple, will continue to improve and that one or two of the red shirts/incoming freshmen can contribute. We will still be young, but a little more experienced than this year.

I know we've talked about this team over and over, but there just seems to be something missing. I don't beleive its athletic talent as they're as athletic as I've ever seen at Weber......

They just look like a bunch of guys brought together to play basketball without a true leader or sense of team. Joel will never be a leader, it's not who he is..... In fact I'm not sure he even like to talk! Senglin is a logical choice, but shoot first PG's have a hard time being leaders. You can count how many times in each game that he refuses to dish off to an open Bolomboy or Hill for an easy dunk. Instead, he puts his head down and drives through the middle. The team truly doesn't have an identity! It's been a long time since the scouting report against a Weber State team was to just attack the middle. Our interior defense was exploited by SUU and I have to admit, neither Hajek or Joel could stop them! Yes, we got our butts kicked inside by SUU! We have a former defensive POY at the post position and he looks like Swiss cheese!

I'm sure Golden and Coston are good kids, but D1 basketball doesn't seem to fit their skillset. I'm not sure how the team is going to look next year, but Rahe needs to figure out how to rebuild! Yes, rebuild! This team is going to need more than experience to be a top team again. Areas of strength are now our weaknesses and I don't see an answer coming through the door! Our players are tired! 30-35 minutes a game is to much!

I was hoping that coach would go to his bench and try some new things, but as I look to the bench it's clear the answer isn't there. When you go out and bet on JC players to cover up your mistakes it comes back to bite you in the rear. As I look to next years recruits, I don't see the answer to our problems. I see 3-4 kids without a true position. This might end up being a 2-3 year rebuild!

 

[n.ogdencat]

It is pretty safe to say that both JC kids have ended up being a bust. I wish we knew if Fuller and Williams were driven off, "counselled out," or if they decided to leave on their own. Both players would have been far more effective for the team than two newbs who didn't understand the offense, weren't part of the team, and who hadn't even played in a DI game. At least Williams and Fuller had DI experience, knew the system, and had been part of the team. Golden was expected to come into Weber and provide 12-15 a game and hit a high percentage of his shots. He has been anything but poor from outside. Personally, it is time to give a freshman more mins. Hayden Hunter is the only true point guard on our team and Ryan Richardson, even though he has been off the past couple of games, is the best shooter we have. Senglin is not a PG...his natural position is to play the 2. Lastly, I would start Hajek and bring Hill in off the bench. Weber is facing two veteran clubs this week. Both would love to come into the Dee and get wins. I think Weber can defend their home court and get two Ws this week, but changes have to start. First, consistent play in the backcourt. Weber needs a team oriented leader a guy who can command on the floor (put the DAMN cards away Duft). Next, somebody better get after our bigs terrible defense and get them to toughen up. Final issue, change up the lineup.

 

[oldrunner]

I agree with you Tal. I'm just not sure it will happen. Coach is slow to make those kind of changes, or at least he has been in the past.

It's not the big things that we are doing. It's the little things, like contesting the post entry pass, showing strong on the pick and roll, closing out safely on a jump shooter, and making in-game adjustments to what the other team is doing. One thing I noticed in the SUU game was that, in the help situations, we were not fully rotating. We were not helping the helper and it would leave someone wide open for an easy layup. That was one of the big reasons that they killed us in the paint. They almost never failed to make that extra pass to the man that should have been covered if the defense had rotated properly. It was frustrating to watch, and it never got corrected during the game. Our zone was the most effective against what they were doing, but we never stuck with it long enough to make any headway. :yikes:

 

[Itiger]

It is pretty safe to say that both JC kids have ended up being a bust. I wish we knew if Fuller and Williams were driven off, "counselled out," or if they decided to leave on their own. Both players would have been far more effective for the team than two newbs who didn't understand the offense, weren't part of the team, and who hadn't even played in a DI game. At least Williams and Fuller had DI experience, knew the system, and had been part of the team. Golden was expected to come into Weber and provide 12-15 a game and hit a high percentage of his shots. He has been anything but poor from outside. Personally, it is time to give a freshman more mins. Hayden Hunter is the only true point guard on our team and Ryan Richardson, even though he has been off the past couple of games, is the best shooter we have. Senglin is not a PG...his natural position is to play the 2. Lastly, I would start Hajek and bring Hill in off the bench. Weber is facing two veteran clubs this week. Both would love to come into the Dee and get wins. I think Weber can defend their home court and get two Ws this week, but changes have to start. First, consistent play in the backcourt. Weber needs a team oriented leader a guy who can command on the floor (put the DAMN cards away Duft). Next, somebody better get after our bigs terrible defense and get them to toughen up. Final issue, change up the lineup.

Fuller and Williams were not the answer. Fuller just didn't have the skills and that's why he's in his 3rd program. He's not a D1 talent. He's actually in a great spot! One of the issues with our team is we settle on talent versus bringing in the best and have them compete! Yes compete! Hajek is a great guy, but he's not going to help us reach our goals. I know everyone wants to beleive that our issue is experience, but there are other teams getting valuable minutes from their Freshman and Sophomores. Our issue is we've gotten away from Weber State Basketball. Weber is known for being an inside out program, but as Old's said months ago, Randy changed his focus and wanted to go smaller! Well we did and it's not working! As we went to small ball, other BSC teams improved inside and we are getting hammered! Coston sounds like a great kid, but he struggles to compete because of his size! I chuckle at the comments about Golden because his numbers are better than when he was in JC! He just shot a lot more in JC, so his PPG was better, but his shooting percentage was horrible! I agree with midmajor. We got 2-3 years that it's going to take to fix this. I'm still waiting for the team that everyone talked about in practice last summer! Best defensive team ever and a post player that was 40-50% from the 3 point line with either hand! We are flat out getting manhandled inside and it's embarrassing. We've lost our identity and veered from our winning formula..... Until we figure out who we are we will continue to lose to teams like SUU by double digits. :twocents:

 

[wsucatfan]

Fuller and Williams were not the answer. Fuller just didn't have the skills and that's why he's in his 3rd program. He's not a D1 talent. He's actually in a great spot! One of the issues with our team is we settle on talent versus bringing in the best and have them compete! Yes compete! Hajek is a great guy, but he's not going to help us reach our goals. I know everyone wants to believe that our issue is experience, but there are other teams getting valuable minutes from their Freshman and Sophomores. Our issue is we've gotten away from Weber State Basketball. Weber is known for being an inside out program, but as Old's said months ago, Randy changed his focus and wanted to go smaller! Well we did and it's not working! As we went to small ball, other BSC teams improved inside and we are getting hammered! Coston sounds like a great kid, but he struggles to compete because of his size! I chuckle at the comments about Golden because his numbers are better than when he was in JC! He just shot a lot more in JC, so his PPG was better, but his shooting percentage was horrible! I agree with midmajor. We got 2-3 years that it's going to take to fix this. I'm still waiting for the team that everyone talked about in practice last summer! Best defensive team ever and a post player that was 40-50% from the 3 point line with either hand! We are flat out getting manhandled inside and it's embarrassing. We've lost our identity and veered from our winning formula..... Until we figure out who we are we will continue to lose to teams like SUU by double digits. :twocents:

I agree with the comment's on Fuller/Williams but I disagree with you and midmajor on this being a 2-3 year rebuild. We we uber-high on this team over the summer and now we're all ready to jump off a cliff. So much drama :roll:. So far this year we are not as good as we/media/coaches thought we would be. But we have played 2 conference home games so far.

90% of teams want to play inside out, that's not a secret identity to WSU. But the Big Sky is a guard driven league, Weber excels/dominates with a Lillard, Berry, Boyette, Gill, Bamforth, etc.

 

[SWWeatherCat]

Fuller and Williams were not the answer. Fuller just didn't have the skills and that's why he's in his 3rd program. He's not a D1 talent. He's actually in a great spot! One of the issues with our team is we settle on talent versus bringing in the best and have them compete! Yes compete! Hajek is a great guy, but he's not going to help us reach our goals. I know everyone wants to believe that our issue is experience, but there are other teams getting valuable minutes from their Freshman and Sophomores. Our issue is we've gotten away from Weber State Basketball. Weber is known for being an inside out program, but as Old's said months ago, Randy changed his focus and wanted to go smaller! Well we did and it's not working! As we went to small ball, other BSC teams improved inside and we are getting hammered! Coston sounds like a great kid, but he struggles to compete because of his size! I chuckle at the comments about Golden because his numbers are better than when he was in JC! He just shot a lot more in JC, so his PPG was better, but his shooting percentage was horrible! I agree with midmajor. We got 2-3 years that it's going to take to fix this. I'm still waiting for the team that everyone talked about in practice last summer! Best defensive team ever and a post player that was 40-50% from the 3 point line with either hand! We are flat out getting manhandled inside and it's embarrassing. We've lost our identity and veered from our winning formula..... Until we figure out who we are we will continue to lose to teams like SUU by double digits. :twocents:

I agree with the comment's on Fuller/Williams but I disagree with you and midmajor on this being a 2-3 year rebuild. We we uber-high on this team over the summer and now we're all ready to jump off a cliff. So much drama :roll:. So far this year we are not as good as we/media/coaches thought we would be. But we have played 2 conference home games so far.

90% of teams want to play inside out, that's not a secret identity to WSU. But the Big Sky is a guard driven league, Weber excels/dominates with a Lillard, Berry, Boyette, Gill, Bamforth, etc.

Some voice of reason :thumb: . All is not lost, the (Big) Sky is not falling! Still, a lot of season to play and plenty of chances to make more out of a disappointing year. We don't know anymore about what next year's youngsters will/won't do or what the team will look like, we just know they will still be young and somewhat inexperienced.

 

[Da Bears]

Your way off on that one..... yes 90% of teams want to, but we were executing. We've totally abandoned our inside game and now it guards hoisting away. take a second and look at the stats. Where we are losing out is our inside production. SUU dominated us 30-10 in the paint. SUU! The reason our guards were so productive is that they got open looks with passes from the post. I don't think there's drama in saying that this team is not what we expected and that Rahe's changing how we attack is hurting our team. Teams are emulating how Weber won the last couple of seasons and have really gotten strong inside. Jenky killed us . Colette killed us inside...... every bad lost was due to the other team executing inside. The only drama i see is how you can't figure that out! you play to your strengths..... not copy the teams your beating!!! :wall:

 

[Cats meow!]

Funny..... you lose to SUU by 10 and still believe that the season can be successful? I'm glad to see you're already preparing the we're too young excuse for next season! :rofl: :rofl:

 

[SDHornet]

sacstatesman;

You should be proud that your team is doing well enough for someone to care enough about it to cap on you. Your team has arrived. Now if your community can step up and help you build a new facility, you may really have something. Hopefully, your team can wake up that sleeping giant, Sacramento, and things can get moving. :thumb:

Thanks olds but I've given up on getting a new arena......political powers out here are absolutely idiotic (you DEFINITELY have a better political climate and logical thinking bureaucrats than we do)...Sac St basketball will have to improve the way they have the last 5 years, by recruiting high character kids who are also good students (bet you Cody Demps is the only Mechanical Engineering major in the BSC). Our coach has established a family atmosphere amongst the team. Our best recruiters are our players. We don't miss on many that actually come to visit when the team is around. Thanks again olds for your compliments. Can't wait for Saturday night.....should be a close game either way

Yup, same here. Only real hope is that we are getting a new President this fall so maybe he/she will make campus improvements a priority. Otherwise getting something done will require a donor stepping in to make it happen and even then I think I would rather see that kind of a donation go towards a new football stadium. The Kings are here to stay (new downtown arena being built) so low tier D1 hoops just won’t ever get much traction in this city.

I’m not getting all the hate on ssman on this board. As far as I can tell he showed up with some legitimate observations only to get flamed. Then he returned fire in kind. That said all this back and forth is part of the entertainment in visiting these boards no?

 

[Midmajor??]

Every game is crucial for the young cats. We might be the 7 or 8th best team in the BSC right now. We should make the conference tourney, but its going to be tough to win it! I'm proud that our fans still believe that this will be a productive season, but I don't see us playing past the conference tournament. I don't see post season tournaments of any kind in this teams future. I'm not being negative, just honest. our issues are great and I'm looking for that silver lining. Just haven't found it yet.

 

[wsucatfan]

Your way off on that one..... yes 90% of teams want to, but we were executing. We've totally abandoned our inside game and now it guards hoisting away. take a second and look at the stats. Where we are losing out is our inside production. SUU dominated us 30-10 in the paint. SUU! The reason our guards were so productive is that they got open looks with passes from the post.

I agree losing to SUU was pathetic, but again, away game, I think when all is said and done parity will be the theme of the conference this year. Win at home and try to steal a few on the road.
Ok, let's look at the stats:
00-03 Leading scorer, Jemaine Boyette, he had Jake Shoff, Pat Danley, and Ocokoljic as his centers, two of the three are not exactly a intimidating presence in the post. Slobodan was pretty good. We go 15-14, 18-11, 26-6
03-04 Leading scorer, Slobodan Ocokoljic 15.1 ppg, inside presence yes, but only ok guard play, record 15-14
04-05 Leading scorer, Lance Allred, with Tres probably our two best centers in the last 15 years, record 14-16
05-06 Leading scorer, Coric Riggs, Patten’s first year, record 10-17
06-07 Leading scorer, David Patten, also lead the team in rebounds, blocked shots and steals, record 20-12
07-08 Leading scorer, Dez Harris, pretty good guard, with a pretty good center, Arturas Valeika, record 16-14
08-09 Leading scorer, Kellen (the real) McCoy, Damian’s freshman year, High Flying Daviin Davis, who’s the center, Steve Panos record 21-10
09-10 Leading scorer, Damian Lillard, with Tresnak and Mahoney at the center spot, record 20-11
10-11 Leading scorer, Lindsey Hughey, would have been a special year if Dame hadn’t of broke his foot, Tres at center, record 18-14
11-12 Leading scorer Damian Lillard, with Tresnak and Mahoney at the center spot, record 25-7
12-14 Leading scorer, Davion Berry, Tres, Hajek, and Bolomboy, record 30-7 and last year 19-11

 

[Webergrad02]

Your way off on that one..... yes 90% of teams want to, but we were executing. We've totally abandoned our inside game and now it guards hoisting away. take a second and look at the stats. Where we are losing out is our inside production. SUU dominated us 30-10 in the paint. SUU! The reason our guards were so productive is that they got open looks with passes from the post.

I agree losing to SUU was pathetic, but again, away game, I think when all is said and done parity will be the theme of the conference this year. Win at home and try to steal a few on the road.
Ok, let's look at the stats:
00-03 Leading scorer, Jemaine Boyette, he had Jake Shoff, Pat Danley, and Ocokoljic as his centers, two of the three are not exactly a intimidating presence in the post. Slobodan was pretty good. We go 15-14, 18-11, 26-6
03-04 Leading scorer, Slobodan Ocokoljic 15.1 ppg, inside presence yes, but only ok guard play, record 15-14
04-05 Leading scorer, Lance Allred, with Tres probably our two best centers in the last 15 years, record 14-16
05-06 Leading scorer, Coric Riggs, Patten’s first year, record 10-17
06-07 Leading scorer, David Patten, also lead the team in rebounds, blocked shots and steals, record 20-12
07-08 Leading scorer, Dez Harris, pretty good guard, with a pretty good center, Arturas Valeika, record 16-14
08-09 Leading scorer, Kellen (the real) McCoy, Damian’s freshman year, High Flying Daviin Davis, who’s the center, Steve Panos record 21-10
09-10 Leading scorer, Damian Lillard, with Tresnak and Mahoney at the center spot, record 20-11
10-11 Leading scorer, Lindsey Hughey, would have been a special year if Dame hadn’t of broke his foot, Tres at center, record 18-14
11-12 Leading scorer Damian Lillard, with Tresnak and Mahoney at the center spot, record 25-7
12-14 Leading scorer, Davion Berry, Tres, Hajek, and Bolomboy, record 30-7 and last year 19-11

What are these stats supposed to tell me? When we had a good defensive presence inside we do well. When we don't we are mediocre at best.

 

[AlumniWSU]

That said all this back and forth is part of the entertainment in visiting these boards no?

Yes, visitors just need be careful & realize there's choppy waves on "weber pond" this season so far, high winds (lots of hot air) then cold spells (biting, freezing blasts)!! Fans go from fits of anger & frustration to periods of calm reflection & contemplation. (I'm certainly feeling it all!!) Hopefully, calm waters & some smooth sailing happens before the season ends. :rofl:

 

[Itiger]

Thanks so much for responding because I saw the same thing! I thought I was reading it wrong and didn't want to look off base! It's clear..... Weber does better when we have strong post play! I look at who we have coming in on verbal commits. Weber doesn't have any bigs coming into the program.

 

[Webergrad02]

That said all this back and forth is part of the entertainment in visiting these boards no?

Yes, visitors just need be careful & realize there's choppy waves on "weber pond" this season so far, high winds (lots of hot air) then cold spells (biting, freezing blasts)!! Fans go from fits of anger & frustration to periods of calm reflection & contemplation. (I'm certainly feeling it all!!) Hopefully, calm waters & some smooth sailing happens before the season ends. :rofl:

Most of us are feeling the effects of a gigantic whirlpool and are hoping that "weber pond" is not actually a flushing toilet this year.

 

[AlumniWSU]

webergrad02, good take :thumb: Do you hear that flushing sound?

 

[SWWeatherCat]

Thanks so much for responding because I saw the same thing! I thought I was reading it wrong and didn't want to look off base! It's clear..... Weber does better when we have strong post play! I look at who we have coming in on verbal commits. Weber doesn't have any bigs coming into the program.

Zach Braxton isn't a big? Or, am I misunderstanding something? 6'9" might be a tad small at center but he's got some weight and good HS credentials. Seeing what Joel and Hajek have produced defensively this year I'm wishing more and more he wasn't a RS.

 

[wsucatfan]

Thanks so much for responding because I saw the same thing! I thought I was reading it wrong and didn't want to look off base! It's clear..... Weber does better when we have strong post play! I look at who we have coming in on verbal commits. Weber doesn't have any bigs coming into the program.

Zach Braxton isn't a big? Or, am I misunderstanding something? 6'9" might be a tad small at center but he's got some weight and good HS credentials. Seeing what Joel and Hajek have produced defensively this year I'm wishing more and more he wasn't a RS.

Or 6'10" Jordan Dallas?

 

[WeberCompliance]

Come to the game tomorrow and you might see the team wearing something you've seen floating around social media in the last week.

 

[Itiger]

Thanks so much for responding because I saw the same thing! I thought I was reading it wrong and didn't want to look off base! It's clear..... Weber does better when we have strong post play! I look at who we have coming in on verbal commits. Weber doesn't have any bigs coming into the program.

Zach Braxton isn't a big? Or, am I misunderstanding something? 6'9" might be a tad small at center but he's got some weight and good HS credentials. Seeing what Joel and Hajek have produced defensively this year I'm wishing more and more he wasn't a RS.

I was talking about the 2015 class. Braxton will be fine. I'm just hoping that we can start recruiting deep at every position. Bigs can't go 40 minutes every night. Van pelt hasn't been given a chance and behind him there's nothing unless we go JC again

Like everyone else I'm trying to figure out what do we look like next season. If its the same starting five will another year of experience be enough to make us competitive. Other teams are improving too..... there's a little problem about more scholarship players than available scholarships next year. I think we need a solid and aggressive presence in the middle.